tallgeese

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the concept of testing in the case of a visiting professor who might not see you work every day. I also agree that your regular instructor, if he's the one doing the promotion, should be more than capable of telling when you're ready for promotion. One of the cool things I liked about BJJ almost immediate was the fact that the belt testing thing was pretty rare. I've always thought it was really unnecessary in most cases due to the constant pressure testing a student goes thru. I have noticed that it's becoming more popular. I'll guess we'll just have to see how this trend goes.

8/7 Dusk and night time work out doing PTK work. Fluid 5 with flow, bridging and finally distance sparring. A couple of fast rounds of technical for validation.

Thanks, Patrick. If I recall, as I'd written this I think I had a couple of stripes on my purple. At this point, I'm sporting 4 on a brown belt. My views on the transition haven't changed to date, that said, I have 2.5-3 years to see the further evolution of what occurs as you move thru the system. I"m thinking that at some point that will be a continuation of this article. Thanks Patrick. sensei8, I know we've disagreed at times over traditionalism. It's never been my intent (well, at least not for a very long time- I was probably more bull headed in my younger days) to suggest superiority of one art over another. I do think there are arts better suited for certain things. Specificity of training is important to me. But I think the bulk of my angst has always been training method over art. But again, this is specific to situation as well. Thank you for the feed back. Always a please to discuss these matters with you.

This post was originally published as an article in a dedicated KarateForums.com Articles section, which is no longer online. After the section was closed, this article was most to the most appropriate forum in our community. One of the great revolutions in martial arts training occurred in the early 1990s when the Gracie family brought Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the attention of the world, thanks to the UFC. Granted, mixed martial arts had existed prior to this in one form or another at multiple points, across many cultures worldwide, including the vale tudo matches where the Gracie's had started to showcase their art in Brazil. However, this was not the majority trend in the early 90s. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's roots go back further than its entry into the UFC, of course. It traces its lineage back to Jigoro Kano, a student of multiple forms of traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu who founded judo in the late 1800s. After coming to be a dominate force in Japanese martial arts, judo, which Kano had engineered to heavily focus on throwing, looked unbeatable. However, Mataemon Tanabe, a student of Fusen-Ryu, bested several of Kano's finest with grappling attacks focused on the ground. Judo then began to incorporate much of Fusen-Ryu's ground tactics and the latter slowly faded to extinction while judo experienced a revolution of ne-waza (ground tactics). It was early in the 1900s when Mitsuyo Maeda, a product of Kano's judo during this ne-waza movement, moved to Brazil for business. There he began to teach Carlos Gracie, whose brother Helio would also come to train and modify those teachings into what would become Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Two Camps When this art exploded into the United States, there were generally two camps that evolved almost immediately. One would argue that due to the restrictions in the UFC, that grappling could be defeated by any number of reality based tactics. The other, saw the hole in their game and began to seek more insight into the range of combat that they lacked. At that time, I fell into the second group almost instantly. However, there were no Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu academies anywhere near my location. This made me settle for the occasional workout with a wrestler, a long distance relationship with a shootfighting organization, and the coveted video tape (yes, I remember VHS) to start me into the world of grappling. After a long and convoluted path, I felt that I had a grip on ground fighting and took part in several shootfighting bouts and independent full contact events. This, I made do with for quite some time, but I still wanted to train pure jiu-jitsu. Finally, a few years ago, I was afforded the opportunity to start regular attendance at a BJJ academy. At that point, I had just finished training out of an MMA gym for some time and was still active with my initial art having earned dan ranks in two off-shoots of Kempo. At the outset, I had planned to make this a supplement to the rest of my training. Shortly, this would become the core of my revitalized training. To date, I have been given the honor to receive a purple belt rank in BJJ and continue to train and compete in this venue. Due to the popularity of cross training, a good thing in my estimation, and the interest in BJJ within the martial arts community in general, I thought that I was in a good position to pass on some observations in regard to moving into the world of BJJ from the background of another, Oriental art. Cultural Differences We'll leave aside the technical differences and concentrate entirely on what I think are the larger issues when you strap the white belt on for jiu-jitsu. One of the first things one will note is the drastic difference in atmosphere and structure. Anyone following my posts will note that I'm not the biggest on traditionalism in the arts as it is. I can barely remember a time when we lined up and bowed in. But even at that I was struck by the change in tenor from stepping on a BJJ mat from the arts I came out of. You might find a BJJ class that lines up and bows in from a kneeling position. A few more will address the head instructor by "Professor" but the vibe is much more relaxed. Many head instructors go by "Coach" or even their first names if you've been around a while. There is little formality between students as well. The way I often describe it is that karateka will line up, sit in formal postures and bow a lot. BJJ players are more likely to hang out on the mat reclined a bit, call each other "bro," and comment when their favorite song pops up on the radio. It is largely a mellow atmosphere. Whereas MMA schools you can expect the standard metal tunes blaring in the background, or the quiet of a karate school in that setting, expect laid back tunes rolling in during your open mat time in jits. Maybe even during instruction. It depends on how mellow the instructor is. If I was culture shocked by the atmosphere of the class, then a traditional karateka should expect to feel almost like they are at recess. If you're looking to train BJJ, get used to the idea that things will be different on the formality front. That's not to say that there are not certain cultural dos and don'ts. They just aren't the same or as rigid as a traditional class. A Relaxed Atmosphere The next observation will surprise a lot of people given the competitive connotations with the art. The actual process of the art of jiu-jitsu relies on relaxation and less than aggressive rolling while training. "Spazzing" or using muscle to accomplish a goal is frowned upon. This is one of the cultural things about jits. Whereas sparring in karate or other arts can be very aggressive, you'll really get on the outs at a school if you're competitive against team mates during open mat session. The concept of "playing" the art is heavily touted by many coaches while rolling. Any practitioner of traditional arts will talk about training pace in sparring and working on tactics, in BJJ this concept moves to the next level. Another difference of note, and this one pertains much more to those coming out of MMA training, slow is almost always better. Technical portions of training are very precise and randori is often conducted between 30-60% intensity. When it comes to grappling, this is usually a radical departure from the rolling done at an MMA school, where 60% tends to be the start of the spectrum. The matter of randori, or "rolling" as it's referred to in BJJ, is much more important in the art. All techniques are really not yours until you can do them live. It's this heavy and constant training in a live environment, against a resistive opponent that often sets BJJ apart from other arts. Nothing is theoretical; it must be proven to be effective. There is no, "Well I could to this..." If that is the case, then do it. If it is consistently crushed then one has their answer. One of the most important matters of focus during rolling is position. This is often overlooked by those starting BJJ fresh. Everyone wants submission; they want to know new ways of "winning" the match. Submissions are the byproduct position. If you're new, worry about gaining position, in fact, it will be this goal that dominates your thought process for the bulk of your time in white belt. Whereas tactics to harm individuals are often emphasized at the forefront of other martial arts, particularly if you're out of a RBSD (reality based self defense) system, they are an afterthought in BJJ until you can gain and maintain position. Often newer individuals will spend too much time fretting over attacks, which is what they've been conditioned to pay attention to in other arts, when they should be looking even more fundamental. These factors: the importance of slow, technical learning, the focus on relaxed rolling, and positional dominance, make it much easier for the martial artist who is putting years on to train without injury. There is a lack of ballistic trauma during regular training that is often harder and harder to overcome with age. This, combined with the continued effectiveness of jiu-jitsu with age, makes it an excellent choice to continue training with into and past middle age. It's a Challenge Lastly, almost everyone out of another art underestimates how out of their element they will be when taking up BJJ. Everyone says it, most everyone means it, but the depth of this is usually overlooked until they are actually doing it. This is not another martial art where you're skill will somewhat overlap. Even if you come out of one karate system and go into a striking art from another nationality, you have some concept of distance, timing and rhythm of moving against someone trying to hit you. Once on the ground, even the most experience karate man (or woman) will find that all of these factors are now different. It is an alien environment. Even wrestlers and judoka, who are usually the most capable of dealing with the transition, will find that the depth of tactics allowed is different and deeper than both of their expertise's while down. BJJ continues, and will most certainly endure, as the most sought after art for training in ground based combat. The revolution that the Gracie family made us all aware of is as important historically as Funikoshi, Kano, and Lee, and their contributions match those founders in the growth and functionality of the martial arts. As a traditional artist, if you are aware of the subtle and not so subtle differences, you will be better prepared for a smooth transition.

There's probably a bunch that aren't making to my head. For now though: "You can't get tired of the basics. You have to learn to love these movements. They have to become part of you jiu jitsu soul." "Speed is earned"

The bolded above, in my opinion, can be problematic. If we have to question why a change was made when the one who modified it is no longer around, then don't we have to question the founders choices at the outset of the art as well? For me, this is easy. Of course we do! But some artist have real trouble acknowledging this. Not saying that you do, just saying that a lot of people are quick to dismiss change on the grounds you stated, but balk at the idea of questioning a founder that was born two centuries ago.

cool vid man, first off im with ya on the fact that its not my think to do those moves either lol! i dont like to "roll" as they say, looks cool though but as i know nothing about rolling i also have nothing to compare it to, therefore hard to comment beyond that. As for the form in the first post "bassai dae" what i can say kind of goes for all forms. Simply finding an aplication is one thing but finding a practical aplication is another. there is no specific aplication that i know of for the jump and if you see the shotokan version it is typically a double step. As i was tought about forms (especially korean versions) there are aplication but many of them are made to look pretty for the form. back to you man, are you in the video? The outfits look jujitsu, is that accurate? Yes. BJJ.

8/5 pm: Got a late workout in outside. PTK footwork, L, M, and N patterns. Some light flow then into distance sparring and technical sparring.

On the topic of the thread, and for the grapplers out there, here's some review footage we shot about this time last year when I was focusing on back attacks. These rolling sorts of attack really aren't my style, but they do play to an advanced back game and that's what I really needed to build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVz0dUD-uwE&list=UU_BwtY5sDLB1YLBPCj570OQ Comments welcome.

Interesting thread, Luthor! First up, let me ask you about the form. What is the application/ drill/ learning point of the hop in the middle of the kata? I ask because momentum generation and control has been a big factor in my footwork since really digging into some of the FMA's, particularly PTK. It interest me when I see things like this now. Thanks

These might be some options for you. At least one is a PTK affiliate of one stripe or another. Plus some other blends.

A very long time ago I did this sort of thing. The best one I ever built was constructed as follows: Start with a 2x6, I suggest making it on a piece about 8-10 in in length. This way, you can hand hold it or mount it with the spare wood you'll have on either side. Take a bike tire inner tube. Tack it down with a heavy duty fastener to what will be the back of the board (non striking surface) Wrap it in a single layer, pulled taught at each wrap, around the board. Leave a couple of inches at each end. We'll get to that later. Once that's down, Wrap a layer of hemp rope around the board in the same manner, completely covering the inner tube. make sure it lays flat and even. Similarly, tack this down. From here, you're pretty much ready to go. Wrap a strip of athletic tape around the tack down spots if you want. It's really immaterial. Now, if you're so inclined, you can drop a couple of holes in both ends (in the board sticking out) This will allow you to lag it to a wall, a tree, what every you like. The whole thing ran me less than 10 bucks and was better than most of the commercial models I saw. On a similar note, I've also used 2x4's and cut closed cell foam to fit and tight duck taped a couple of layers to them. Laged them to studs and used them to trap/ strike/ kick (and or knee) This also worked pretty good and hand the benefit of working really well in residential construction. Good luck! Let us know what you end up doing.

Fundamentals are fundamentals. It's hard to tinker too much with certain things. That said, training methods evolve. As does one's focus on aspects of the arts. It's hard NOT to tinker with these things. For instance, I've made my BJJ journey through two different organizations, Nova Uniao and Renato Tavares. Needless to says, that's two different instructors teaching each school. That's not even considering the other grappling aspects I'd seen prior to. Each of these schools has a different focus and out look. Each instructor has a slightly different style than others in their respective organization. Now, given the influence of both lineages, AND the particular takes each instructor had, how would my jiu jitsu look anything like a perfect copy of either? It won't. Not if I'm doing it right. That the beauty of the "art" side of the martial arts. And that's just one part of what I do as a whole. Now start factoring in the same type of equation for the skill set I (or any of us) teach. Unless you've been in a single system with a single instructor your entire career, (less and less common these days) there is no way you'll be a carbon copy. That's a good thing. Now, use my BJJ example above, a triangle is still a triangle. The gross motor function is the same. That won't change. BUT there are variants on the importance of certain steps. Which is right? The combination that works best for me. That's which. Which is best for my student? We'll see that will be their own path to formulate. Again, it's the art. If I have drills from one camp that I really like, why wouldn't I use them to develop the same attributes in my current camp. Particularly if it's an area of general weakness? In a broader view again, what happens when your auxiliary arts start to effect your primary response pattern and after pressure testing you begin to see why your doing it that way? What do you do about that? Look the other way because it wasn't something your first instructor had access to? Or make it part of you? If it's worth making part of your response system the why shouldn't you teach your students? Why deprive them of the lessons you worked so hard to learn? So, for me, adjust, grow. If fundamentals are sound they won't change much (unless you change the reason you do the arts- sport of historical context arts might not be as ready to deal with the realities of combat hence a change might need to occur there) Everything else is on the table though. And if thru pressure testing the fundamentals are faulty, they are subject to modification as well.

8/4 Drilled Fluid Five form, followed by Multiple Strike form. Centerline clearing footwork, fluid off line, diamond, L, M and N patterns of footwork as well. Finished with sayaw (free form PTK work, like carenza) 8/5 AM workout with Groinstrike! Boxing for a couple rounds (wow, how long has it been since I've done that!) and moved into knife form and application.

What is this course you are doing? Sounds very interesting. I was also curious if you had a system you use for handgun or long gun disarm/retention for your department. Do you have one system you use for DT, or a few things pulled from different places to round it all out? I've been working as often as I can over most of the year with a Pekiti Tersia Kali instructor that I met in March thru a mutual friend. So that the system I've been really working weapons thru. Aside from that, I've been studying some other brands of kali via privates. I was real lucky to get time with Prof. Harris and got to get his introduction to ilustrisimo kali as well. That said, most of my time has been spent doing solo work that these instructors have sent me on my way to work on. The one speaking to me the most is PTK. The seminar was a fundamentals course that they require to run a training group under the coach's supervision. This lets me work up regular training partners in addition to my trips to Addison to train with my coach. It's slow going that way, but all I can manage on top of the time I'm committed to jiu jitsu. I had dabbled in the FMA's back in college but had moved out of them since. this has been a really good time to get back in and I'm loving it. As far as weapon disarms we still use the PPCT handgun disarms. Believe it or not, as much as I detest that program, they are pretty good on this particular facet. We've even tested it with the Sims under the conditions of people TRYING to press the trigger with great results. 1 hit in 25 disarms. If you want I have footage I can send your way. Their retention on the other hand..... For that we use Danny Halligan's material quite a bit. We've found that it's just better and easier to teach. Additionally, his holster lift work great on the ground for most models. Long gun is another matter that PPCT is actually okay on. Particularly the retention. As to disarm I'm suspect on most everything I've seen. Not to mention I've always wondered how one would get there. That said, I'm starting to play with some PTK patterns in regard to it. The particular breed I belong do does a lot of combatives work so it's part of the lesson plans. I'm still deciding but I'll let you know. We have a real progressive set up at the dept. I work for in regards to training. We've incorporated several sources and streamlined it to work together within our GO's. It's gotten real good feedback and we have two other departments using it. Makes me want to get it State approved and go on the road.

8/3 Forms. Fluid 5 with the long blade. Knife thrusting forms, sak sak and pakal grip. Transitions to slashes as well. Cool down with specific footwork only rehearsal.

Thanks all! I agree bushido man, there's never been enough respect for wrestling. That said, the MMA wave right now is really helping it out as we see how well it can counter stand up strategies, and (if we're being honest) be a real problem for jiu jitsu guys with its top heavy game.

Great article! I wish everyone would read it before starting school shopping. Those questions are so crucial to long term fulfillment but are largely unknown to many would-be students at the outset. I think that a constant re-evaluation of those questions are also in order as one changes stages of life, training, ect. Great job!

8/1 Drilled x guard to de la Riva transition. Sweeps to top. 35 min free roll Moved into PTK footwork and mechanics. Finished with some sparring. 8/2 Drilled open guard submission series. 30 min free roll.

7/31 1.5 mile run Abs Kettle bell routine Drilled multiple attack form as well as fluid 5 form. Moved into an exploration of basic footwork patterns 1-4. Finished with some long blade work.

7/29 Drilled basic broken footwork methods followed by striking patterns.

7/25 Drilled arm bar attacks from closed guard. 30 min free roll. 7/26 Day 1 of PTK QTC course. Covered fundamental footwork, long blade form and flow. Took bridging into accountand moved into distance and technical sparring methods. B 7/27 Day 2. Advanced footwork. Moved into the first sets of knife forms. Addressed them in contecxt. Moved close range and worked tapping and ambush drills all out of the forms and then learned drilling methods. Finished off with jabbing and flow knife as well as empty hand. 7/28 Drilled X guard transition from butterfly then sweeps. 40 min free roll

This post was originally published as an article in a dedicated KarateForums.com Articles section, which is no longer online. After the section was closed, this article was most to the most appropriate forum in our community. Many martial arts utilize some form of takedown as part of their response pattern or to accomplish their principle loop for conflict. There are a multitude of reasons for the inclusion of some way to put an opponent on the ground. If your opponent is on the ground, and you're standing, you have a serious tactical advantage when it comes to escape, striking, or weapon escalation. If you are dealing with multiple threats, one on the ground drastically increases your odds of dealing with the others. Conversely, you might work in a field where controlling a subject is paramount, law enforcement for example. One of the easiest ways to control this subject is often to put them on the ground. Therefore, some way to bring this strategy into play is important. If one is out of a purely striking art, with minimal or no takedown movements, this takes away an efficient tool that can be very useful. For those that are looking towards a well-rounded ability to defend themselves, and not simply a single focused sport outlet, adding some training into takedowns can be highly beneficial. The next question is: What to cross train in? There are a lot of options out there, everything from small joint manipulation to various forms of aiki and, of course where everyone's mind probably goes, judo. Let's start by agreeing that if you're looking to train one of those arts for the experience of training that particular art then by all means that's the best choice. However, is it the best choice for combatively cross training? Aikido Let's look at some of the pros and cons of each. Aikido is a beautiful art, and if one wanted to learn the ins and outs of manipulation of force, it would be an excellent choice in and of itself. However, for integration into a combative paradigm, it has several drawbacks. Chief among them is the reliance on committed, single-vector attacks by the uke. As seen in this clip from skilled aikidoka: Again, I'm not suggesting that this is an inadequate martial art. But the clip is an example of what I've seen across the board in aikido training, an uke with a single, committed attack with no change in energy, from the uke, during the course of the movement. This is excellent if your goal is to manipulate energy but one has to question the efficient integration into self defense. Another problem is adopting circular energy into a response system that might be very linear in nature, or in cases of many western striking arts based on smaller angles and side to side movements. There are several joint manipulation arts, and some forms of karate that incorporate them, that lend themselves to takedowns. For example, I go to footage from a recent belt test I was part of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtTpWZDAgE Here's the thing you'll note in the clip, although the movement does affect a takedown, that's not the primary function of the movement. The primary function of most joint manipulation is to destroy joints and break them so that they can no longer be used to attack you. This in and of itself is a good idea to have in your toolbox, but it's not a reliable takedown. It's also important to note that they, as aikido, function best against a committed attack on a single vector. If we look at their primary application, this is more than acceptable. Judo The most traditional art that we normally think of when we discuss adding takedowns into your defense pattern in judo. This is a logical course of action considering that it's an art built around throwing your opponent. There are a lot of strengths to consider here, largely due to its specialty of putting someone on the ground. If you want to spend some time in a traditional art to add to your ability to put people on the ground, let's face it, judo is a good choice. You still see plenty of it in BJJ events, despite current trends in other directions. On the down side, let's face it, getting slammed into the mat head over heels time and time again isn't fun, and according to current trends, it can injure pretty badly. Granted, this is a limited study, but worth noting. Another issue to look at is the tendency of judo work to place your back towards an opponent, or for the reaping leg to leave the ground excessively. Still, we have to give credit that judo remains a viable option for adding takedowns to your curriculum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O47-csFVvII Wrestling Another option is wrestling, which has long been overlooked but is quickly gaining acceptance as we see it becoming a viable entry into the world of MMA. Folk or Greco-Roman have been considered outside the realm of "martial arts" by too many for too long One of the great things about leagues like the UFC is the arena that they've given wrestlers to showcase themselves as martial arts practitioners. Wrestling has the advantage of several options that keep you facing your opponent, keep your feet on the floor, and are specifically designed to put an adversary on the ground and control him. The ability of a wrestler to drive an opponent with forward pressure is phenomenal. It's this pressure that keeps an opponent busy and off balance. It keeps them from effectively striking counters in many instances. The single and the double, as well as variations of these are the bread and butter movements to take away from folk wrestling. They attack the base, limit movement of a bad guy and allow you to maintain forward fighting pressure. Additionally, there are plenty of variations to account for subtle differences in each situation you might find yourself. Here is some evaluation footage shot to tighten my game early in 2011. It's pretty well rounded in the basic idea of the double and single: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGqdv-lYHyE As one can see, it's relatively simple to train the motions without the heavy impact of body contact throws. Further, the basic double and single rely on no intertwining of the legs for tripping which can lead to blown knees. It's my belief that it's these factors, almost more than the effectiveness alone, that account for the upswing in wrestling we've seen used in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments of late. When integrated into a format where striking is allowed, we can see the usefulness of the double, single and related movements. Each attempt maintains forward pressure, allows for control of an opponent's striking and reliably puts you in a position to maintain top control: Standing single variant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1eF7m2Wnc Double with lift: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eokkl1UBvY Underhook trip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUKHwa7ywr0 Sorry for the rehash of some video, but this is footage I had that readily supported my thesis. The integration of wrestling into my personal skill set has been highly useful and combatively efficient. Additionally, I was able to train takedowns to a reliable level without taking slam after slam into the mat, something that my 40 year old body has little to no interest in. It also gave me a deeper tool chest that allowed me to have takedowns that were not predicated on controlling a small joint. If you have the potential need for takedowns in your art, I think it's safe to say that they are indeed useful. Considering wrestling as a martial art worthy of cross training has been shown to be essential in high level mixed martial arts competition, adopted by BJJ practitioners, and should equally appeal to individual martial artists looking for combative options.

7/21 Drilled PTK footwork. Forms

7/21 Drilled arm bar to Omo plata 35 min free roll