sensei8

This topic is more for fun than for anything. Many, if not all of us, have seen The Fist Of Fury, later released in the USA as The Chinese Connection. In the first encounter where Chen (Bruce Lee) challenges the Japanese at Suzuki's Dojo, and dispatches of them quite handily and easily. Then the pot-bellied Sensei with the thick glasses comes up to meet Chen's challenge in front of the entire defeated class. There's a framed picture of a Master hanging up in the center, noting a place of great importance, right above and over Chen's shoulder, just before the pot-bellied Japanese and Chen begin to fight. Who's the Master in that picture? Remember that Suzuki's Dojo is of Japanese origin and of a Japanese Martial Arts! (By the actions presented by Suzuki's students in the movie...I'm willing to bet that it's a Karate Dojo) Yes, this might or might not take some investigating to answer my question, but, please give it a try and I await your answers.

I don't know, you tell me. Can he teach it TO THE LEVEL he's attained? NO! Why? If he's only attainded Shodan in Shotokan then, by the by-laws of the JKA, John Doe can only advance his Shotokan students up to the rank of Ikkyu. After Ikkyu, that student would have to find a Sandan to promote this student to Shodan, yet, John Doe is certifying to Shodan in Shotokan under the Toma Banner of Seido, yet, the certs SAY...SHOTOKAN SHODAN. Now that you bring this up, I see what you are saying. Typically, at the testings that I have been involved with, the judges sitting on the panel must be at least 2 dan ranks above the highest rank that is being tested for. So, at least two 3rd dans should be present to test/promote to 1st dan, and so on. I concur! This is normal precedence no matter the style, even though, there are some exceptions to the norm. Yet, aren't the Shotokan certs meaningless because they come from John Doe? And/or because the Shotokan certs come under the Seido Banner?

Shindokan (Okinawa-te and Shuri-te based) Okinawan Shindokan Karate-Do Association

Thanks, Kuma. Great video. Fast and clean. Nothing fancy, just rapid-fire straightforward karate. Watch his roundhouses...wait...there it is...opps....missed it again...someone help him up!

I suppose though, in order to answer that question, you have to define the criteria that makes a good martial artist. Or more importantly what you as an individual define as important. WNM Another point I can't argue nor will I. Having said that, you've layed out what is your/the criteria, therefore, all that's missing is your answer. If this answer is to remain private, I respect your wishes. My answer to the question is...NO! After only 19 years in the Martial Arts as a mere Yondan, I wasn't no where close to what Bruce Lee had. In a lifetime, 19 years is infancy at best.

I wish I had found KF much earlier than I did. Better late than never! Thank you Patrick, the KF moderators, and to every member who's contributed to KF being one of the most positive communities around. THANKS!!!!!

Simply...breathtaking!

Pretty cool Patrick! Thanks for sharing. While I was watching the newest Star Trek movie, I couldn't help but notice how technical superior across the board the Enterprise was in this particular movie, compared to the Enterprise of the original tv show. From the necelle's to the wide open bridge to the overall appreciation of the latest Enterprise.

I deeply bow to both Wa-No-Michi and DWx as their posts were exceptional as to their points. Points that I'll not dispute at this time, if at all, for their points were solid. While, it may seem by what I've written in the OP as though I worship Bruce Lee and that I place Bruce Lee upon any pedestal over any martial artist world wide; this is the furthest thing from my mind. My feelings towards Bruce Lee are of only sincere respect as to his knowledge/skills. Knowledge/skills that he obtained after only 19 years, and 19 years is nothing in the world of the martial arts when a lifetime of dedication is considered. While I can respect Bruce Lee, and I do, I don't subscribe to many of his theories and methodologies. Why? Because they're his theories and methodologies and not mine. Bruce Lee's feats were just that; feats. Many are well documented while some are from unreliable sources. Still, feats, imho, are not the martial arts. Do I respect Bruce Lee for these feats? Yes, as I do for any other martial artist who's established a feat or two themselves within the martial arts world. I challenge any martial artist with 19 years of experience in the martial arts to honestly and openly re-evaluate themselves, as I've done many times, and then ask themselves this one question: "After 19 years of experience in the martial arts, AM I AS GOOD AS BRUCE LEE WAS AFTER 19 YEARS IN THE MARTIAL ARTS?" "I don't/won't compare myself to Bruce Lee, now or ever!" While this is true for many, including myself, sometimes a measuring stick is just that...something to measure...and that something might be ourselfs; a comparison if nothing else. I too, am complete in my totality, but, doubting oneself isn't an end to every means, especially in the martial arts! I've not said, although my OP might've suggested otherwise, that Bruce Lee is the ultimate martial artist! NO! He's one of a many possible measuring sticks for us to compare against. My most profound measuring stick is my Dai-Soke, in which he's stated numerous times over the years, "Exceed me; this is my ultimate desire for my students!" Yet, for this topic/thread, Bruce Lee is the measuring stick that I've chosen at this time. Try to answer my question as stated above, then, possibly, we can talk further!

Well, here I am, again, pondering in which forum here at KF do I place this topic in. I've no idea, so, again, I depend on the powers that be here at KF to place this topic in an appropriate forum if General Martial Arts isn't where this belongs. We, martial artists are always speaking of the differing levels of attained skills within the martial arts; there's knowledge versus rank. While the consensus is universal in that knowledge is more important than any rank. Without knowledge, rank is meaningless, empty, and with much void. Without knowledge, rank can't be achieved nor can rank be true. Without knowledge, rank is without substance. This topic isn't about either really. This topic is about the validity of rank when being compared to...Bruce Lee. Don't run away...please...hear me out before you start assuming wrongly...please! Bruce Lee began his martial arts training at the age of 13 years old. Bruce Lee died at the age of 32 years old. A total of 19 years involved in the martial arts one way or another. 19 years?!? Unbelieveable! I consider Bruce Lee to have been the best across the board considering every aspect of the martial arts. Bruce Lee did say he could have beaten anybody in the world in a real fight. This, I've never doubted, nor will I ever! I've been in Shindokan Karate-Do for 44 years...44 years...that's a lifetime! Chronology speaking as far as my martial arts path goes: *I started Shindokan at age 7 in 1964 *I earned my Jr. Yudansha at age 13 in 1970 [6 years have passed] *I earned my Shodan at age 18 in 1975 [11 years have passed] *I earned my Nidan at age 20 in 1977 *I earned my Sandan at age 22 in 1979 *I earned my Yondan at age 26 in 1983 [19 years have passed at this time] All of this and then some, and I'm not even a hundredeth of a martial artist as Bruce Lee was after 19 years in the martial arts. My Soke and my Dai-Soke were/are incredible Karateka's, but, their knowledge/skill sets pale against Bruce Lee. I was only a Yondan after 19 years in the martial arts...big whoopee! Please don't misunderstand me, I'm extremely thankful/proud of every accomplishment(s) that I've ever earned because it wasn't easy at all. I could, you could, and/or anybody could name "10 Best Martial Artists...EVER!" Of the 10 named individuals that are on your/my list, I'm very sure that there's not one individual that you/I can name who's even close to the skill/knowledge of Bruce Lee, and Bruce was only involved in the martial arts for 19 years. I can name one legend after legend in the martial arts world that have dedicated their entire life in the true journey that is the martial arts, yet, none of these legends come even close to Bruce Lee. Many of these martial arts legends are possessors of Hachidan to Judan, yet, these high Yudansha ranks mean NOTHING! Jhoon Rhee himself once said that he'd never want to fight Bruce because Bruce was way to powerful and way to fast for him. Jhoon Rhee - "You could show him a tremendously difficult technique that took years to perfect and the next time you saw him, he would do it better than you." After my 44 years in Shindokan, my Hachidan/Hanshi means...nothing...NOTHING! I'm not, your not, your instructor(s) not, heck, nobody is even close to holding a candle to Bruce Lee, and Bruce only did the martial arts for just 19 years! 19 years! 19 years! I can't say that enough. I've dedicated my entire life to my martial arts journey, I've lived it, I've breathed it, I've eat it, I've drank it, I've this and that every waking moment of my life, yet, I'm nothing, not even close, to the skill set, as well as to the knowledge set that was Bruce Lee...after only 19 years in the martial arts. Who is/was? I'm extremely knowledgeable, yet, my path is still on-going. I'm extremely skilled at Shindokan, but, I've a way to still go. I'm extremely fast/powerful, but, I'm not at where I'd like to be. I can rock and roll with the best of them, I might even teach them a thing or two. But, I'm trying to be open and honest with myself, something that many in the martial arts aren't willing to do themselves. Shoot, Bruce possessed skill sets that still boggle the mind. For example: *Lee's striking speed from three feet with his hands down by his side reached five hundredths of a second. *Lee's combat movements were at times too fast to be captured on film at 24 frames per second, so many scenes were shot in 32 frame per second to put Lee in slow motion. *In a speed demonstration, Lee could snatch a dime off a person's open palm before they could close it, and leave a penny behind. *Lee would hold an elevated v-sit position for 30 minutes or longer. *Lee could throw grains of rice up into the air and then catch them in mid-flight using chopsticks. *Lee could thrust his fingers through unopened cans of Coca-Cola. (This was when soft drinks cans were made of steel much thicker than today's aluminium cans). *Lee performed one-hand push-ups using only the thumb and index finger *Lee performed 50 reps of one-arm chin-ups. *Lee could break wooden boards 6 inches thick. *Lee could cause a 300lb bag to fly towards and thump the ceiling with a sidekick. *Lee performed a sidekick while training with James Coburn and broke a 150lb punching bag. *In a move that has been dubbed "Dragon Flag", Lee could perform leg lifts with only his shoulder blades resting on the edge of a bench and suspend his legs and torso perfectly horizontal midair. Yeah, yeah...I know...the aboved feats could be labeled as only parlour tricks. But, mind you, even to do these types of parlour tricks requires alot of honed/practiced skills/abilities to execute. If nothing else, Bruce Lee's 19 year involvement in the martial arts proves that knowledge is far superior to rank! All of us martial artists that possess high Dan ranking better realize one thing...you're/we're not all of that and a bag of chips! There's always someone better than us/you...his name was Bruce Lee and he was just that darn good after only being in the martial arts for only...19 years! Come on...19 years...that's nothing compared to a lifetime of dedication to the martial arts, and some legendary figures have been in the martial arts for some 40-75 years. You high Dan ranks, just throw your Yudansha into the trash if your rank is more important than your lacking knowledge....please!

For me, per the hypothetical I've layed out for all, your questions aren't enough for me. Why teach me Shotokan up to Shodan in Shotokan, yet, my rank comes from/under the Seido Banner of Shihan Toma through John Doe? I don't know, you tell me. Can he teach it TO THE LEVEL he's attained? NO! Why? If he's only attainded Shodan in Shotokan then, by the by-laws of the JKA, John Doe can only advance his Shotokan students up to the rank of Ikkyu. After Ikkyu, that student would have to find a Sandan to promote this student to Shodan, yet, John Doe is certifying to Shodan in Shotokan under the Toma Banner of Seido, yet, the certs SAY...SHOTOKAN SHODAN. Yes, to all questions above! Hypothetical, there is no right and there is no wrong. It's a personal preference at best!

Again, the OP question(s) were derived through nothing more than a hypothetical, not real, situation(s). Therefore, I'll let each of you decide as to what the answer/situation(s) are to be. Shotokan should be recognized by Shotokan practitioners/organzations ONLY? Yet, if someone is a certified Shodan, for example, in Shotokan at one time under the guidance/leadership of the JKA, then as he's already a Hachidan in Siedo Karate under Master Toma, but, he's teaching Shotokan as an additional seperate curriculum away from the Seido Karate, BUT, John Doe is RANKING EVERY STUDENT UNDER THE SEIDO BANNER...IRREGARDLESS IF ITS SHOTOKAN OR NOT! Does Master Toma concur with John Doe's actions? I'll leave this answer to each of you do decide.

I've never understood the useage of a stomp at the moment of any punch in the martial arts. To me, this methodology seems to only gimmick a punch as seen in Pro-Wrestling [WWE] for its own reason; uneffective for the purity of the technique but vivid for the theatrics alone. In the 4 decades plus that I've been in the martial arts, I've yet to see proof in the effectiveness of stomping at the moment of a punch. Why? Most of the time the stomp/heel is lifted way to high. Why? An over zealous practitioner might be possible. Imho, I've only seen the stomp diminish any said punch, if nothing else, the stomp might, maybe, could be used as a distraction device.

Any technique executed without the proper useage of ones hips is uneffective! While snap is a part of any techniques totality, it's still just one piece of the puzzle. Yet, any individual portion of any said technique is empty without ones hips. Yes, I can drive with my legs, yes I can snap my techique at the very last moment, yes I can maintain proper posture/balance, yet, while a technique might be noticeable, any technique without hips is wasted motion as well as its [technique] only recognized as a 'period' at the end of any sentence, but, an 'exclamation' at the end of any sentence isn't forgotten soon.

This is of my own opinion, but, when I saw the tag-line within an ad from a Dojo in my town, I kinda laughed. "This Advertisement is approved by the Better Business Bureau!" This is about the funniest thing I've ever seen in an advertisement from a school of the martial arts. Why? Having the BBB approve one's advertisment is akin to having a white belt approve a black belt. Not only is it ridiculus as well as meaningless; it's an oxymoron! Funny and/or dissappointing, all at the same time, is what schools of the martial arts will do to get any edge with future laymen students in this economical downturn. Ask any Lawyer about the BBB and they'll tell you that the BBB is a waste of time and not worth the effort to have BBB backing/support; especially in a court of law.

ROFLMBBO!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that's funny! And so right on!

This is an easy question for me to answer. For me, I'd say as many instructors as it takes to help me to complete my martial arts journey...which is a never ending journey. My cup will never be full...ever! Yet, my main instructor is Dai-Soke Yoshinobu Takahashi Sensei of the Shindokan. All other instructors in my life were anybody I felt capable in helping me to grow as a martial artist in both knowledge as well as in effectiveness; any others were immediately discarded with the trash. Through all of this, I continue to and will always revert back to my main source...Takahashi Sensei OVER all of the rest! Takahashi Sensei has been my "father in the martial arts" for over 44 years...I owe him so much!

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but I just made a decision to dismiss my first student today after she was found to have stolen an ipod from the dojang. Interesting enough it was the same student I noted above...I guess the writing was on the wall! You're dead on here! Not only would I have kicked this student out of the dojang for life, but, I would've pressed charges to the max.

No I wouldn't because the key to the kick is....the Hook! Is it a spinning kick? Yepper! But it's not a spinning HOOK kick by its definition. My style, Shindokan, doesn't kick above the waist...ever. Having said that, a spinning HOOK kick, for me, reaches its apex just at the very moment that the HOOK BEGINS! It's UP, OUT, BACK (HOOKING), and then DOWN. These steps are the basics of what Shindokan stylists define as a HOOK kick. The rest of the label for that kick is just...spinning and kick; self described labels I might like to add. Our leg NEVER remains straight in this kick or the like because the leg is ALWAYS slightly arching towards the apex, as the supporting foot is turning while the hips are beginning to open up, and then at that very moment of that apex...the hooking is executed.

Former 13 time collegiate amateur wrestling champion as well as a Pro-Wrestler with every WWE brand.

As cool as an Honorary certificate is, there meaningless outside ones organization, imho, Having earned a cert thru blood, sweat, and tears, imho, outweighs honorary certs any day of the week. I wouldn't, but this is me, hang the honorary cert anywhere...except....(fill in the blank here)!

Lashley thought Cook was making fun of him... http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Pro-wrestler-Lashley-destroys-Cook-in-24-seconds?urn=mma,163814

My 14 year old son, Nathan, is speech delayed. Whenever he's frustrated that nobody understands what he's saying, with is not his fault, he gets angry. His therapist says to Nathan, "If getting angry helps you to say this word; do it. But don't be violent!" Nathan gets mad thru his frustration, but, it helps him at THAT moment to properly focus...WHAM...the word comes out very understandable. One day Nathan was having some difficulties with double consonants, Nathan said, "What's wrong with me?", as his body language spoke volumes of despair/sadness, it tore me up inside...but...he worked through the word and was able to say it very well. Anger's a negative unless the anger is meant as a positive, as it was with my son.

As fantastic as spinning hook kicks are to perform as well as to watch, spinning hook kicks, imho, is the leader of being the most telegraphic kick. Many practitioners reach the apex of the spinning hook kick to an opponents head differently than others. Some are flat spins, some are high, some are low, some are medium, some are are swingers, some are floaters, some release the knee to soon/late, some release the hips to soon/late, some don't open the hips at all, some have no proper body mechanics, and some go out then go up. Therefore, how do YOU reach your apex in YOUR spinning hook kick? It'll be interesting to see just how differently the apex is reached from one spinning hook kick to another.

We've got Judoka and we've got Karateka. This has a nice little ring to it for those who are wowed by the Japanese language; to these people, Japanese language is poetry to their ears. But, just what does the "Ka" really mean to a Judo or Karate practitioner. Surely, there's more to the suffix than just poetry. A Judoka/Karateka is a person who practices Judo/Karate. It's origin is from Japan, therefore, Karate+Ka is saying Karate=Karate + Ka=person. Having said that, Karateka, for example, is the Japanese word for a practitioner of Karate. By definition, Karate is a Martial Art and a Karateka is an artist, put these two together, a Martial Artist. Therefore, as great as Judo and Karate are, they're just things; nothing by itself. The Judo/Karate is dependant of a person/artist to complete it. Although the person/artist is complete without having the Judo/Karate, the Judo/Karate is incomplete without the person/artist. No person/artist; means there is nothing to formulate or to birth. This can be for ANY Martial Art! How so? Tae Kwon Doist, Aikidoist, Hapkidoist, Kung-Fu stylist, Capoeiraist, and Jeet Kune Doist to name just a few. Without the suffix of 'ist', there's nothing more than just an empty word; lifeless, an inanimate object at best, void, not endowed with life or spirit. Add the 'ist' or the 'ka' or the 'Do' to the word, life is the giving energy that makes the word come alive and vibrant; pulsating with life, vigor, or activity, therefore, a creative soul that empowers the thing into being SOMETHING! We, the 'IST' as well as the 'KA' that are being guided by the 'Do' are important to what it is that we love as well as to what it is that we are...MARTIAL ARTISTS!