sensei8

Great responses, thus far! Thanks, all! I suppose it's the layperson that will assume just the opposite of what all of us here already know. It's the layperson, that's victimized to assume something that's not accurate. The seminars I've attended, and they're have been tons of them, and if I received a cert for it, I just filed it in the bottom right drawer of my desk that's at home. Some MAists collect seminar certs for various reasons. The Okinawa Karate-Do Rengokai seminar in Naha, Okinawa states this in there full page ad... "This [seminar] accelerates their progress and deepens their experience, while preventing or eliminating the bad training habits that lead to ineffective karate technique." I agree that that's what your Sensei is suppose to do. I suppose that getting a different ideology from those listed in my OP, is a important element to that practitioner. For the layperson, as well as the inexperienced MA student, could it be that receiving their cert gives them the right to teach it to the unsuspecting public?? I suppose they could. However, todays layperson isn't that easily duped one way or another. Paper can impress!! Can is such a big word. I'm thinking out loud, just for a conversation.

This is the crux of it. People are blending two different words Master the noun and master the adjective. The former meaning someone who is in charge of something and the latter meaning someone who has acquired a high skill level in something. They're not interchangeable. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/master Danielle, solid post. Because of my Christian beliefs, I automatically take offense to the Master label, and it might be in addition that when someone addresses a MAist as "Master" Smith, and then bow, I get offended by the gesture. Having said that, and thinking over your post, I see where I've erred all these years. And it's been spoken well here regarding the Master title. Master Craftsman, Master Plumber, and so on and so forth. I'm fine in the context, yet, in the MA context the bowing before/after the word Master gets under my skin. I understand the bowing in the MA. I understand the title Master in the MA. Yet, putting them together, well, that was getting under my skin. It was my problem, and now, I'm seeing it in a different context. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?!! Thanks, Danielle, as well as those KF members who've tried to tell me just what Danielle said here.

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!

Update...NONE to report. However, my eyes are on my mailbox because I've directed the Legal Team to mail me their final report to my house, and not to my office at the Hombu. Soon as I get the mail and ingest the info, I'll let you all know the findings, minus any findings that are proprietary protected. The wait's killing me!! Sheech!!

I flipped a coin, and this is the forum for this discussion because the topic might fit just about all MAist. For the most part, MAist will visit other schools and the like, some local, while some not, and some might include an International flight, depending where one lives in order to attend another MA seminar. Some seminars are with legends, while others, are with those gems that are the diamonds in the ruff. You sign up, you pay your fees, you train for an untold amount of days/weeks/months...you feel good...NO...you feel GREAT. The experience has generate a new spark within you, and it's increased your MA betterment...you feel like you're dancing in the clouds. You've learnt things that we both new to you and things that needed to be revisited desperately and you've learnt just how to make that which was easy, even much more easier from the seminar you just attended. You discovered, you trained, you made new friends, you visited with old friends, you learnt, you exchanged knowledge, you also exchanged phone numbers and/or address, you absorbed that which was useful, and you discarded that which was useless. Then, you take pictures with a group as well as with the Instructor of the seminar being given; framing beauties to behold! In your hand, and/or in the joining of hands, you hold up the prize that's important, not just for you, but all who attended. Then, at the banquet ceremony you get to rub elbows with MA legends, friends, wifes/husbands/family/etc,...you're, for that moment, and depending on where the seminar was held, and whom hosted it, you're richer for having attended. The flight home...drive home...bus ride home...train ride home...gives you a moment to reflect that which you've just been a part of. You scroll thru the notes you took the entire seminar, and you make mental reminders, and jot them down just as quickly as you can, so as to relive the experience with as much clarity as you can. During this trip back home, you pull out something that you received to gaze at it, and a proud smile slowly appears across your face. You breathe a deep sigh of pride, and then you wonder and ponder... *Just what will this prize provide for me? *Will it open any closed doors for me? *Will it be accepted to be something of value? *Is it worth the paper it's written upon? *Etc. What was that prize? No, it's not a Kyu or Dan ranking certificate, no, not even close. Then what is the prize?? A CERTIFICATE OF COURSE COMPLETION!! Some might scoff at this, some even here at KF might. But to the receiver of a certificate of course completion; it's important to them. Give the certificate of course completion it's due respect because, like a ranking certificate, it took hard work, blood, sweat, and tears to accomplish. For example, those MAist that are in an Okinawan MA might not scoff at a Certificate of Course Completion if it was presented in Okinawa from the Ken Karate Do Rengokai office. That might be a big deal! Who are they? The Okinawa Karate-Do Rengokai, a long established and highly respected organization is recognized and supported by the Okinawan Prefectural Government. It is the dominant and most active Okinawan karate organization, with the largest number of Senior Karate Dan grades: Kudan and Judan!! Btw, the SKKA isn't affiliated with this governing body in any shape, way, and/or form!! The instructor to teach at this seminar are 9th and 10th Dan's. Some of the instructors that teach at this annual event are... Isumu Arakaki, 10th Dan, Hanshi Morio Higaonna, 10th Dan, Hanshi Hiroshi Inada, 10th Dan, Hanshi Zenpo Shimabukuro, 10th Dan, Hanshi Yoshio Kuba, 9th Dan, Hanshi Minoru Higa, 10th Dan, Hanshi Toshio Higa, 9th Dan, Hanshi Not light weight; not one of them. What if the seminar you attended was without instructors of the same caliber rank wise, knowledge wise, and overall wise? Would that make it much less important to MAist that earned a Certificate of Course Completion. What if it was your Sensei, who was only locally known, or who wasn't as well noted as those legends of Okinawa Karate-do? Would that be lesser? Would it be equal? There are some top caliber MAist that are unknown around the world, but their knowledge shouldn't be mocked because you or I don't know them from Adam. I ask the bolded type above, again...but before you answer and discuss, I know that ANY certificate from anywhere is only valuable to those within the same governing body, AND, it's only valuable to those outside who it peaks an interest in, and therefore finds value in it. I'd like to avoid discussing that which we all feel about the paper its written on, but for the sake of the discussion, lets YOU pick the seminar and the instructor(s) and the governing body host and any other valuable parameters that fits to make the certificate of course completion valuable to YOU, then ask the bolded questions above, and then some.

Exactly. A teacher with flawless technique and skills is fun to watch and can inspire me to train harder. But if said teacher couldn't really teach me how to do any of it, "the show" would get boring pretty quickly. I don't pay my instructor to entertain me, I pay him to teach me. My CI isn't the best technical MAist I've ever seen. Not even close. He's good, and I'm sure he was very good in his prime. But he's the best MA teacher I've had. He's got a way about him that's humble, he can break down my flasw, tell me how to correct, and make me want to keep at it. I appreciate that, and I respect that!!

To the bold type above... YES!! I believe that my Hanshi title speaks towards that!!

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!! If I may, I'd like to address each of your concerns, as I seem them, and if I've missed one of your concerns, please forgive my oversight. **WARNING** This post is lengthy, because I feel that your concerns deserve a thoughtful reply!! As both a parent as well as a consumer/customer, you're not expecting too much. That's your right, and it should be treated with honor and respect. Your paying for a product/service, and you need to question anything that's not feeling quite right regarding any of your concerns with the CI [Chief Instructor] in his/her office. Always being respectful, while trying to understand a many of things, and your CI is the final word in the school, so direct your concerns with the CI asap. Imho, you're doing what's your given right as a parent as well as a consumer/customer. With you not being a MA instructor, you might not fully appreciate and/or understand why your 8 year old son, and the entire class is being conducted in the manner of which it is. Before I continue, let me just say this...Not all black belts can, or should, teach; it takes a gift to teach, and it takes even more of a gift to teach children. Hence, some instructors ONLY teach adults, and other instructors ONLY teach kids, while other instructors will teach both adults and kids. Teaching is a gift, and it takes more than wearing a black belt; it takes patience from both the instructor(s), as well as the parent/consumer. Next time you're at class, watch and see if what I've told you is starting to make some sense. Not all instructors, that CAN teach, teach the same way, and that's to be expected because people are different, so why can't instructors be different. I don't teach like my Sensei did, because I'm not my Sensei!! Kids learn by playing. While the kids are playing, if the instructor is good, the kids will be learning the MA while they're playing. I play with my child students age appropriate games all of the time. However, MA techniques and the like only appear to be useless games, and that's because most parents/consumers don't exactly what's going on, and that's because the instructor is just that, and the parents/consumer are just that. If your instructor didn't explain how your son and other students his age group are going to learn the MA, then your instructor missed a golden opportunity when you first sat down with him during the enrollment. I sit down with parents/consumers for as long as it might take to explain every single thing that will happen and how it will happen and why it will happen, and so on and so forth. By the time the meeting is over, the parents/consumers and the student(s) will be more prepared in what to expect. Everyone, and I mean everyone is accountable, and imho, the CI is more accountable than anyone in that school. That CI must meet or exceed expectations of the student body as well as with the parents. Growth, focus, technique and respect should be learnt through the manner of which the games are being played. The instructor needs to explain everything, and if for no other reason(s), to eliminate confusion for all concerned parties. You say that these staples aren't being demonstrated. That concerns me. Growth, focus, techniques, and respect take times to develop because these attributes of the MA can't happen over night. Yet, you've been there for one year, and by then, those attributes should be surfacing at some notable measure, even for a parent who's NOT the instructor. If the instructor in question is worth his/her salt, trust me, the kids aren't running anything. I don't know what "gets mad" means. Screaming in anger/frustration, well, that instructor is dead wrong. Sometimes, a barking instructor is necessary to get and keep the attention of the class, and yes, kids will hit overdrive faster than adults especially when playing games. Why? Kids will be kids, and they get more excited and they just can't put their brakes on that fast like an adult can. When I was a child, I did childish things. But when I became a man, I casted away my childish ways. Again, kids will be kids. Even when I'm on the floor teaching a kids class, and we're playing a game, the kids will get so charged up about what they're doing, they forget themselves for a moment, and I have to bring them back to Earth so that we can continue or end whatever it is that we're involved in at the moment. "YAME"/"STOP", delivered in a manner that speaks of urgency but not in a manner that's disruptive to the class/students. A short bark, they settle, and we continue. Not all instructors use push-ups and jumping jacks and the like for punishment, but most instructors do. I've done my share of them, especially when I was a kid. I started when I was 7 years old, and I was full of vinegar and salt. Even as an adult, one who's a Senior Dan rank, has been punished because I forgot who I was and who my Sensei/Instructor was; so I was reminded often. I'm still here, 51 years this October! Exactly what do you think isn't working?? Kids, even adults, and not all, have to do more than their share of push-us and jumping jacks because they forget the rules and stuff like that. Don't want to be "punished", then don't act like a ding dong. If your son is being "punished", then ask him WHY? Discipline is a necessary tool, otherwise, anarchy exists and tries to take over...NOT IN MY DOJO/SCHOOL!! Some students don't view push-ups and jumping jacks as a form of punishment; they welcome the additional exercise. Well, they do! View, if you can, the "punishment" as a discipline tool. You, as a parent, "punish" your child when they've deserved it; thusly, so does the instructor when the student deserves it. This instructor isn't physically abusive with anyone, is he/she?? If not, push-ups and jumping jacks, for a punishment, is a good thing, and quite beneficial across the board. Again, not all good instructors teach the same way; but they reach the same goals. High road, low road teaching ideology; but all reach the goal: effectiveness across the board. TIME takes TIME!! Telling them to get kicks higher is good, if that's what they're suppose to be doing. Have you been to each and every class? If so, then address this concern with the CI ASAP to get an understanding between you two. If you've not been to every class, then perhaps, the technical portions have been already covered. Therefore, reminding them is simply reinforcing that which they've already been taught. Can't learn the MA without first learning the HOW, and the HOW deals with much more than the technical aspects. The Who, why, when, what, and where are after the HOW is understood. You can't have quality without have repetitions!! Impossible!! How many repetitions do you think I've done, and still do, and I'm a Senior Dan rank with over 50 years on the floor?? I would like to believe that your instructor has taught the HOW, if not, talk to the CI ASAP!! Remember, don't assume a position that you don't possess. You're the parent/consumer and the CI is the instructor. Approach the instructor with respect and ask your questions, but for the sake of having a fruitful conversation, don't approach the CI with assumptions and accusatory tones for obvious reasons. That was not cool of the CI!! Communication must happen, and it must be all of the time, no matter the situation/problem. Soon as the CI knew that there was an issue with his/her order, that's the opportunity to explain what's going on. If after a testing cycle, and the CI is delaying due to an unfortunate order shortage because of a back-order, and a student asks if they passed or not, post the results, and explain to those who've passed, that the awards ceremony will take place when the belts arrive. Don't leave a student hanging with unfulfilling answers, like..."I don't know. Did you?" Unprofessional and unnecessary. That's a way to lose the trust of students and parents/consumers...real fast!! Communicate immediately everything to everyone!! It's called being accountable!! The respect came, and then left by the way the CI choose to address this problem. Can't teach respect if you're not giving respect to those who've earned it....the student body and the parents/consumers!! Word of mouth will close the doors faster than one can blink, and this CI opened his school up for failure by not being forthwith on communication. Bad CI...Bad!! 1,000 push-ups, CI...NOW!! Your concerns are valid, and I respect them all. Talk with the CI ASAP and come to an equivocal understanding between you and the CI. Ask the questions, and you may not like the answers, but ask them nonetheless because you and your son deserve to understand that which you don't understand. The games, the repetition, etc, are normal in the MA. Are you and you're son there for rank? If so, then quality won't exist!! If the school teaches for rank, then quality won't exist!! This is true for both kids and adults alike!! If you and your son aren't there for rank, and if your school doesn't teach for rank, then sit down, have a conversation, and work together to reach goals. You're given an incredible opportunity. You get to witness your son's MA journey firsthand; that's a blessing!! Don't squander the opportunity because you and your CI haven't had a fruitful conversation. Right now, the MA is for your son, let him experience it. The MA isn't easy to learn, and if it was, everyone would be learning it. Just because that's the only school, for me, isn't a reason to remain. If you aren't satisfied after the conversation with the CI, then you're left to no resolve: to quit, or not to quit?! An instructor must be able to challenge the student, and not the parent/consumer!! One last note...Skill without knowledge is worthless...does your son's instructor possess the knowledge?!?! After the conversation with the CI...the only thing remaining is this... Train hard, and train well!!

Solid post!! I prefer to remain on my feet; causing my opponent to find themselves on the ground instead of me through my hand strikes and the like. After all, 85% of our techniques in Shindokan are with our hands. If, for some reason(s) I find myself on the ground, I'm prepared for that, and welcome it, if need be.

Solid post!! To the bold type above... Any time that I've had students on my Private Lesson calendar, I'd schedule an assistant with me, and I'd always invite the student to bring someone with them, if possible. What I've experienced is that Private Lessons are an important part of the P&L per quarter, and into the Year End, as well. I do draw the line with teaching at my home or someone's home because that's the reason for having the dojo to begin with...to teach AT the dojo!!

Solid post!! The word "Master" isn't ever used, past, present, and won't be in the future of the SKKA. Albeit, Godan is a point of training that a student is at the threshold of Mastering the Basics. Nonetheless, we don't address, nor is it in the SKKA language to address anyone of the rank Godan and up with a "Master" label. No "Master" Mitcham...No "Master Forsythe"...No "Master Saitou...No "Master" Takahashi...No "Master" surname whomsoever and whatsoever. Imho, there's only one Master, and He lives on High!!

Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!!

For me, titles are nothing more than identifying labels, and not to be used in everyday settings. In the SKKA, we only address, and expect to be addressed by titles in formal settings as set forth by Soke!! I'm no more important than the lowest ranking student on the floor!!

Time in grade can be the albatross hung around the neck of every student that's subjected to the order of the governing body. Time in grade does have its merits, but for one to appreciate what they are, takes some understanding the ideology of that governing body. Do we instructors hold a student back because the By-Laws of the governing body demands it to be so for the governing bodies sake? Do we instructors hold a student back for the protection of the student; not wanting to rush a student before a student is ready for a testing cycle? Do we instructors hold a student back because that Sensei isn't part of any governing body and the Sensei's low rank when he/she broke away from the governing bodies umbrella, and now the student(s) can't be promoted to a rank near or equal to that of the Sensei? Do we instructors hold a student back because of unprofessional feelings; the Sensei doesn't like the student for whatever the reason(s)? These questions can be problematic for students? At times, time in grade can be a blessing, but for that to be so, the student has to exhaust the desire for rank. As ShoriKid states in his last post here, I was fortunate to have the Sensei that I had!! I was frustrated in the By-Laws concerning those of the JBB; a servitude that was as close to discrimination as one can imagine. However, as a JBB I chose to not embrace the ideology of Soke concerning his reasons surrounding the JBB. The time in grade for a JBB has its own rewards: time to learn...time to harness...time to polish...time to acquire...time to chip away at...time to appreciate...time to witness...TIME IN GRADE CAN BE TIME APPRECIATED!! If we students don't appreciate what is being done for us, then we don't deserve to be students!!

This season of MLB has been exciting and nail biting. The Houston Astros are the shocking team that just won't go away. They split with the Yankees when they played in Houston, and they've won some games that they deserved because of their heart. I'm not a Astros fan, and now that I live in Houston, TX, I can't bring myself to go to an Astros game at Minute Maid Field. Yankees are in 1st place; 5 games ahead of the Blue Jay. Astros are in 2nd place; 0 games behind the Angels...only percentages separate 1st place from 2nd place in their division. I'm hoping at the end of the regular season that the Yankees will have a better record than the Astros, but I hope both teams can play some Red October ball. I'm a Yankee fan, and I only have one thing to say.... GO YANKEES!!

Better late than never; you're post was SOLID, and well timed!!

Not only YES, but quite OFTEN. To exchange, one student to another, and style to style, there's so much to learn, thusly, so much to harness, and so little time.

I'm sorry, but no matter 5th dan or 12th dan traditional martial "arts" are just ineffective in "actual" full contact combat! Good exercise though.......... Welcome to KF; glad that you're here!! I'm not a subscriber to the thought that's in bold type above because it's unfair to a many styles and their practitioners. Often times the practitioner is ineffective and not the style. As I'm typing this I'm thinking about a many legendary practitioners like, Kanazawa, Oyama, Nakayama, Parker, Nishiyama, Higaonna, Shimabukuro, and Chow...the list keeps going on and on...and this and those also have students that are to be reckoned, and not ignored. My own Sensei, Takahashi, was a karateka without resolve! I respect your opinion, through and through!!

As the Kaicho [President] of the SKKA; Shindokan's governing body, I say this to the OP... Do what YOU want to do!! You're a student, therefore, you're not the property of any entity whatsoever!! Your MA journey is YOURS, and yours alone. Yes, you're a student of a Sensei, who's affiliated with your styles governing body, and they might be compassionate about many things, none greater than another, but at times a governing body/Sensei can't see the forest because of all of those darn trees; they keep getting in the way of what they're suppose to do: TEACH!! Teach, and not preach things that interfere with a student's MA betterment. Our student body within the SKKA, is just over 10,000, and the SKKA has better things to do than to create some rules and regulations that suppress a students MA journey. Yes, the SKKA might not feel comfortable about the who, what, where, when, why, and how a student increases their MA betterment, but the SKKA knows, and endorses our students to seek that which improves their MA betterment, no matter the source. Our Soke made this clear... "As we a students ONLY Sensei? No, we are not!" Sounds pretty cut dry and clear to me. He knew that while Shindokan is an effective MA, he knew that Shindokan wasn't the only effective MA, nor is it the only effective means. Means to learning, and means to teaching, and means to receiving information; THEN, the student is FREE to choose without fearing the wrath of their Sensei and/or their governing body. Learn on!!

Dynamite Solid Post!! Thanks!!

Yeah...THIS!! Solid post!! I can't sew to save my life!!

Ooooo...I like that. You're absorbing what is useful and discarding the rest to increase your TSD/MA betterment!!

Glad to hear that things are getting better across the board. Hang in there...train hard and well!!

I'm wholeheartedly for it. Shindokan, already has included Tegumi and the like into its curriculum from its creation; our Soke was BIG on this not being just a simple involvement, but a very deep involvement because fights can happen standing and on the ground.

I hear you. We've talked several times since last night when this all came to a head, and I think we are at a good spot. I contacted my friend and spelled out the boundaries that we need as a married couple, and she fully understood and agreed to all terms without question. Her response was supportive of my decision and she also wanted me to pass sentiment that no harm was meant toward my wife, to my wife, and that based on what I've told her, my wife sounds like a wonderful person and she'd love to try and get to know her because she doesn't have many friends around here as she's only lived here for a little over a year. I showed my wife the message thread for maximum transparency. This went a long way with my wife and her comfort level with the whole situation. As part of the agreement our contact outside the dojo will be limited to emails specifically about the curriculum I'm putting together and when I'm going to talk to my friend I'll let my wife know before hand. My wife is comfortable with all of this and my friend is fully supportive of the restrictions, so I think through all of this, everyone is going to come out happy. Thank you for all of your inputs. This was a weird situation as the title says and I was unsure exactly where to go. I've been a member on this site for a long time, and while i'm not a heavy poster like sensei8 I've always checked out karateforums for any serious discussion on real world martial arts topics. I'm glad I could come here to discuss this. While not exactly martial arts related, it does involve a certain element of my life crossing to my martial arts life and opinions from other real martial artists helped. Peace to you all. Glad to read that things are working out for all parties concerned in this difficult situation across the board! I believe that as long as all of the parameters are respected, a long, fruitful relationship can exist, not for just some time, but for all time. Speaking for myself, I'm glad that I was able to help you with some advice to ponder over for decisions sake. Imho, appeasing your wife was both tantamount as well as paramount in the decision you had to make!!