granitemiller

We just had a discussion about this last night at our school after practice. It is my thought that a young BB can be used in an adult class to demonstrate techniques, and even help assist the newer students who are just starting out during drills. The topic that we were talking most about was the requirements for young BB are different than adult BB, so a youth BB (which we call "Children's Black Belt") has a limited number of kata, self defense, weapons, sparring and terminology that they need to know as compared to an adult that is working towards their BB. So therefore a Children's Black Belt does not hold the same rank and privileges as the adult, so even a nidan children's black belt does not outrank a shodan in our school. When we have combination classes (with the children and adult classes - for testing for example), we always have the adults line up in order first, and then the children start at the end of the adult line (so the children's black belt lines up behind the adult white belt). In addition, we have a policy that when a child enters the adult class (usually age 14/15 but depends on level of maturity and physical size), they will be re-tested according to the adult requirements, and be awarded the belt that they test at. Usually for us this means that a children's black belt will test out as an adult green. Does any one else have a similar arrangement?

Yes I have actually. My old Sensei (who is now retired) would consistently have one young black belt instruct the adult class. This young person did not have the maturity, and after a short period of time, the adults stopped coming and many left the school altogether. We were down to two adults at one point, her father and myself. Finally my Sensei realized this was not a good idea, and it took nearly two months to get the adult class back to where it was. Then he started the same thing again! Luckily, her father had grown tired of training and stopped coming on a regular basis.

My question is should a young black belt (under 13 years old) be given the authority to teach the adult class (20 years old and up) on a consistent basis? My opinion is no. The young person, regardless of rank, does not have the emotional maturity to instruct adults. I believe that any adult with an open mind will be able to receive partial instruction from an under 13 year old (provided the young person is serious and trying), but I don't think that an adult can give the same level of respect for a u-13 year old BB as they would for an adult BB. I believe that the u-13 year old would always be considered a "child" in the mind of the adult, and while the adult might "humor" the child, if the child steps over the line (pushing their authority), then problems and bad feelings occur. In addition, an adult is paying to be taught by another adult, not a child. I would appreciate your thoughts. A similar question has been posted in General Martial Arts about receiving instruction as a shodan (mid-30 years old) from a younger black belt (nidan - 13 years old) if you are interested.

Forrest Griffin - KO Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Sub Wanderlei Silva - KO CB Dollaway - Sub Cheick Kongo - Dec Yushin Okami - Dec Antoni Hardonk - KO Matt Hamill - Sub Ryo Chonan - Sub Dan Evensen - KO

Another thing you can try is placing one foot flat on the wall in either a front kick or side kick, and the other foot planted on the ground. Try keeping your foot on the wall without dropping it or losing balance. Sounds simple but it is a good exercise for balance and it will surprise you how hard it can get.

I don't agree that "ego" is the general problem. Of course, it could be a problem with some adults, but overall I don't think it is simply a matter of ego.

If you like your new sensei, then stay with him. Your old sensei may open and then close the doors, leaving you without anywhere to go. You will always be able to go back to your old sensei if he remains open and your new sensei closes.

I was at the same tournament that The Beast was at when this "fight" occurred. And yes, some of the Jiu-Jitsu competitors, who were finished and standing around watching the black belts compete, first state how impressed they are with the speed and accuracy of the kumite fighters, and then expressed disdain after the two fighters got out of control and started wailing on each other, with one of the Jiu-Jitsu competitors stating "that is why I don't do Karate, too much ego involved". In regards to the second part of the comment "too much ego involved", I couldn't agree more. Those two kumite competitors completely lost their heads and this was in large part due to their egos. Not only do they need to work on their self-control (regardless of who is to blame) but they need to keep in mind that people are looking up to them and watching their every move., It created a tremendous black eye for Karate among the spectators (and not just the jiu-jitsu guys), who have to think to themselves "if this is how the black-belts conduct themselves, I don't think I want to be associated with them". Come on now, I have been struck hard numerous, countless times. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes not. I am proud that I never lost control of myself as a black-belt. I have competed in MMA, as well as Jiu-Jitsu and high school wrestling, I have been in enough competitions that I realize that I don't always have to win. In fact, I look forward to someone beating me because they have just exposed a weakness that I did not know I had and now I can work on improving it. Going back to the first part of the Jiu-Jitsu player's comment about not doing Karate because of ego: I couldn't disagree more. Of course, standing there watching two black-belts humiliate themselves helped provoke that comment, however, Karate offers so much more than just kumite. Kumite is just a by-product, and Kumite has helped Karate, I wrote a blog on this if you are interested: graniteshotokan.wordpress.com

Your points are well made. But there are some things to consider. The age of the young BB - from age 14 and up, you can have students of extraordinary emotional maturity and leadership skills. And yes, if there is someone like this you should use their talents here and there. But this is more the exception rather than the norm. Keep in mind that an adult who is paying to come to class wants value for their dollars spent. If the instructor once in a while allows one of the younger black belts to teach, and has given them clear instruction for the lesson, then this could be a good thing for everyone involved (humility for the adults, leadership skills for the youth, the instructor can review the youth's teaching). However, when it becomes the norm, and the youth are not prepared, then the adult will become disgruntled. My feeling is that kids can teach other kids sparingly (once again, an adult who is paying for their child's martial arts eduction may not appreciate the instructor always having the junior BBs teach), and the junior BB can lead an adult class in warm-ups, or be used to demonstrate a technique.

For a 13 year old or younger, they just don't have the emotional maturity to teach adults. White Owl's previous comment about a young student (u-13) who just received her BB, makes a comment to White Owl that was totally inappropriate. Now, is the young person flexing their wings? Absolutely. But this is one prime example why a young BB should not be given authority over adult students, regardless of rank.

I agree that allowing the younger ones to run "warm ups" or demonstrating techniques is a good way for them to learn leadership and another skills.

While all generalizations don't work (including this one) , I believe that any adult with an open mind will be able to receive partial instruction from an under 13 year old (provided the young person is serious and trying), but I don't think that an adult can give the same level of respect for a u-13 year old BB as they would for an adult BB. I believe that the u-13 year old would always be considered a "child" in the mind of the adult, and while the adult might "humor" the child, if the child steps over the line (as in the case with White Owl), then problems and bad feelings occur.

Someone who is 13 or under just does not have the maturity to teach adults, regardless of their rank. The youth, whether they are a BB, brown, nidan or whatever, will never truly gain the respect of a 30 year old adult IMHO.

My father taught me the basics in wrestling, take downs, rolls, etc., all free-style wrestling that you learn in high school.

There must be a clear distinction between a junior BB and an adult (under BB). White Owl commented about a junior BB giving orders and being on a "power trip", which can certainly happen when the youth feels their rank gives them the right to boss the adults around.

I agree with White Owl, stay on your toes and don't become flat footed.

The Pittsburgh school is located north of Pittsburgh near Ambridge if you know where that is.

I would love to do both in one class!

I think you need to separate, in his mind, when you are "mom" and when you are the "instructor". So I think that talking to him first is important, and that he should behave just like he does whenever someone else instructs. You will also need to be extra firm with him during class. A sarcastic remark from a student is grounds for sitting out, doing pushups, or other. Not an easy task.

Search around until you find an instructor that will listen to you and provide you with what you are looking for.

Nice website!

Sounds like my type of teacher! Stances have been a problem for us for a long time. When I first learned, I remember only ever doing the one stance until it was 100% right, then I was shown a new one.

I can see how a Wing Chun school can develop into an "adults only" type due to its nature. I am glad you found a school that fits you.

Thinking about the throws and takedowns, here is my input: I have used takedowns (where the opponent was tripped) twice in real-life confrontations. It was fast, and each attacker landed on their butts. While they got back up, they were much more hesitant to continue which I took to my advantage. The throws (lifting their feet off the ground, throwing over the hip) is much more violent and destructive, the person getting thrown would have a much harder time getting up, if they could get up. But it seems that it takes the right situation, ie you are in a clinch or close enough to clinch, to execute. If I could chose I would prefer a throw because you can really inflict damage.

I am going through Iain Abernethy's website, and wow, what a great site! Thanks for the recommendation. All the throws we do come from Judo, and kept the Judo name for the throw. I also learned that my instructor's instructor was a black belt in Judo, and incorporated five throws into our curriculum. Thank you all for the comments and advice!