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Yeah, we actually mix it up a bit. Once a week we do a circuit-style session with heavy bags, medicine balls, and some light weights—helps build endurance and explosive power. It’s not “pure” martial arts but it definitely complements the training. Keeps things fresh and pushes different limits.

Anyone who's trained martial arts for a long time faces the day when they can't do it anymore, whether it's health, other responsibilities, etc. They just don't know if they'll get back to it or not. Change happens, and other things fill in. That's life. The beautiful thing about the more traditional martial arts (hopefully) is the spiritual side that teaches "going with the flow", adapting. You can still be a martial artist, just in a different way- this is unique. If you're a runner who can't run anymore.... you're a walker As to the memoir idea, My current instructor,age 76, wrote his memoir with editing help from a student, and also an editor with the publisher. It should be printed very soon, I hear. I hesitate to recommend AI help like Chat GPT, but this might be a case where it would be beneficial.

Congratulations! I have also always enjoyed the time i have spent on here. One thing i think that is done particularly well (especially for a martial arts site) is you have managed to avoid any hint of 'my style is superior to your style' slipping in which can often happen on sites where the martial arts is discussed. Everyone is generally respectful of each others style/s and seems to be willing to enter into open discussions with the purpose of learning from others which is appreciated and often far too rare nowadays

Sorry to hear the news @sensei8. That day comes for all of us. Look at it this way, you got to do what you loved for sixty years, much longer than most get to have. Whether you are on or off the mat, you still have a home with us here at KarateForums.com

Thank you for sharing! It is obviously difficult for you to manage those feelings of having something that formed a big part of your identity ripped away from you. And that there is not much that you can do about it. But I challenge you with these questions - HOW is karate no longer in your body (you can't say due to injury or illness)? How is it different to say the you that is an Educated Person? How is it different to you as a person of Faith? Yes you can mourn the loss of one thing that is going to impact you for the long term, but consider these aswell. - Can I exercise? Yes, in a Pool Safer; less impact on your back, doesn't require you to stand (assistance getting in/out required), improves overall health. - Can I change how I teach? Yes, even though sitting I can teach. Teach the people below me what I want and what I do that others don't - Can I teach a whole NEW group of people? Yes, those with physical disabilities or handicaps (i.e. wheelchair users) increases socialisation and increase opportunities for growth and understanding. - Can I continue being a part of the community I love? Of course I can, I might not be able to do it the same way as everyone else but I am me! Something that a friend of mine said to me last year; when I had to step away from the Teaching and Training in Class due to my legal situation. They said the following. I know that you are the type of person that would rather demonstrate and verbally communicate WHAT you want them to do. But sometimes where you are unable to do something for the short/long term or permanently, you can still talk and have a trusted person demonstrate. We say this to athletes all the time when they're injured; coming and watching training or even their matches does more for their observational learning than skipping those sessions. Damage yes! Is this the end of your MA Journey? That is a Big Fat No!! Is this an opportunity? YES I do believe that you believe in the words that you had said. Struggle is good; but sometimes you are forced to slow down and either re-evaluate things or PIVOT and change that perspective. You are also everything to them! Stepping away does them no good I disagree, it hasn't been ripped away from you unceremoniously. To me with the greatest of respect; you stepped away or put up excuses to WHY you can't do what you want in the way you had done for the last 60 years. You are on a new journey, laid out by your current health and faith. Re-evaluate and move forwards. After all of that; you need to look at what Karate has really taught you and share that knowledge. When I stepped away, I had to start writing down everything I learnt and that I remember. Not only did I write it; but where I can I film it.

thats exactly what I was trying to get at!! thanks! Clearly my brain went a different route when trying to explain it. hahaha

Well not physical music playing; kind of like how a Dance Teacher teaches a pair how to do a Waltz. We incorporate the timing into it because like you said tournament wise if your doing it in a team you need to be in synch. I asked my Shihan some time ago about it; he said that we teach it because mentally it helps our students retain it and focus on the intensity or lead up to a move. or even a reminder as a whole to be consistent with how I move and not go to fast or slow. Now in relation to Real World Applications; what are people doing majority of the time (even though ill-advised at night)? they're listening to music. Some of my students have realised that they don't need to be listening to music because when they move they're making their own music up in their head and they've mentioned its a lot more enjoyed and made them be in the present. Also if they do need to react; timing has changed. Please note: When I teach, yes when they're learning it might be a consistent beat but as they get more advanced they do change the tune to make it work for them or under stressful situations. Power and Speed are great; but timing is also rather important for both. Because if your timing is off; the force you putting out is greatly diminished. Actually since you mentioned your French; think of it like this - if you slowed down the way that you speak it most likely comes across as a bit off likewise if you rush it. As you could very easily change the word or what is conveyed be miscontrued by the listeners. Same with the tempo of what we do; it is all about timing. when do we unleash something? also that timing greatly impacts where our limbs or even our positioning changes. So for instance; I am slow like a tortoise, don't have the best level of fitness atm. BUT I can time the heck out of how I do things. "I know nothing of composing" I disagree, you might not be say a singer, but we are composing something everyday. Every post you write here is a composition; and if your French French (Not Canadian French) then writing in English is outside of your normal course of action. I know everyone has different ways of teaching Kata; whatever works for each of us I guess. haven't met someone who teaches that far off from what I do yet. @sensei8, @bushido_man96 what do you both do?

After six pages of discussion, I think it is clear that the proposal is full of risks. Injury, cost, retaining students, ect, and furthermore is very limited in what it teaches the students. The risks are much higher than the reward. I encourage the OP to reconsider this proposal, if that has not been done already.

My Karate is in my heart…My Karate is in my mind…But my Karate is no longer in my body. What good am I as a martial artist or as a karateka if my body has some serious limitations due to medical conditions?!? My prostate cancer greatly affected my spine at my T12 and L4. Yes, my cancer is in remission, Praise God, unfortunately the damage has been done. Due to the damage to my spine, I can’t stand very long, a minute at the most, nor can I walk very long, a few feet, at best. Being a martial artist is all that I’ve ever been for 6 decades…the only thing that I ever loved…the only thing that I was ever good at. Now, because of my wrecked spine, I'm no longer effective on the floor, wherever that floor might be at. My students have always been everything to me!! “Martial arts is not just about physical strength; it’s about mental and emotional strength as well.” – Unknown Those aren’t just some idle words to me because I believe in them. Nowadays, I deeply struggle with those words daily despite what others have encouraged me on. My martial arts, my Karate-do, has been ripped away from me unceremoniously and it’s very difficult for me to cope with that fact.

I've seen these pop up as well, but haven't watched them yet. Silat is not a style you see a lot of, and if it's actually represented in the movies, then I think I'll check it out.

I was thinking a lot about this part when deciding how to structure my kobudo curriculum because I see a lot of truth to what Booth says here. You start with the bo, which is generally the "simplest" weapon to get introduced to and acts as a proxy for all sorts of things - sticks, pipes, whatever. You next learn sai, which isn't a great analogue for anything I can think of, but it gets the range much closer, gets you to strike with specific parts of the weapon, and gets you used to manipulating the tool into different configurations. I think tonfa also builds on this. So this broadens the improvised weapons a lot - a glass bottle, a vase, a textbook, I'd expect someone trained in the complicated Okinawan short weapons to be able adapt most of these effectively. I'd put eiku, the oar, next. Obviously an oar may show up depending on where you are, but it's really a proxy for any long weapon that's heavier on one end. A shovel. A rake. A vacuum cleaner. (I don't train with the kuwa (hoe), but it seems like the same sort of thing, a mid-length weapon that's much heavier on one end.) Nunchaku gets into flexible weapons, so a variety of chains, ropes, maybe towels, etc could work here, but also other flail-like items like a belt with a heavy buckle, or a bag filled with small heavy items. The kama (sickle) introduces a cutting edge, but also serves as a proxy for anything short and heavy on one end - so hammer, hatchet, ladle? spatula? So yea, I think training in the traditional weapons both opens your eyes to the fighting possibilities of objects around you while also giving you some capability to handle those objects effectively.

With that much experience, you are still very useful and a part of the community.

Thanks for sharing this—it’s a really thoughtful reflection. I especially connected with the idea of shifting focus from the strike itself to the direction of force and the attacker’s center. It feels like a mental reframing that could make reactions more instinctive over time. That bit about “forgetting how to see” also hits home—so easy to fall into auto-pilot once something becomes familiar. You’ve captured a lot of deep stuff here without overcomplicating it. I’ll definitely keep some of this in mind during my next session.

Been watching some interviews with Alice Cooper and his journey through being sober for over 35 years. I'm finding that inspiring. I was lucky enough to meet him back in 2006, very polite, well spoken, down to earth, person. In a world where so many rich and famous people act entitled and selfish, it was nice to meet someone who was not like that at all, despite being much more famous than many people who do behave in those unfortunate ways. Cooper was one of my favorites as a kid and part of how I got into rock and roll, and now decades later he is inspiring me in other ways. Edit: PS - happy Friday the 13th

Bob, your mind and your insights are the greatest gifts you can give to your students. In your decades of experience, you can look at someone and see exactly what that student needs to change to get better. That is what I love about training with senior instructors -- not that they necessarily can demonstrate the physical skills that I'm trying to learn. Their value to me is that they can look at the techniques I'm trying to do, and give me those nuggets of insight that makes my karate better. You have senior students that can demonstrate the moves with the right speed, power, and technique. However, what you bring to the table is the ability to look at a student's technique and say "Do this differently", and those little changes and tweaks can improve their technique by leaps and bounds. I was just talking about this a few weeks ago -- we had a guest instructor come to our dojo back in May, and in about 15 minutes over the course of 2 days, he helped my son's technique improve more than I've seen in the past year. Not through demonstration, but through observation and verbal feedback. Something like that you can do from a chair, and can be invaluable to the student in question.

I've heard that as we get older it gets tougher to sleep well.

I've been in a reading slump, but I picked up Dragonlance Chronicles to reread. Dragonlance is the series that got me into fantasy. It's been a blast reading them again. I can't seem to put the books down.

This got me thinking, where does it cost the most (and least) to attend an NFL game. According to USA Today this was the order in 2024: 1. San Fransico - $750 2. Las Vegas - 745 3. Philadelphia - 673 4. Green Bay - 659 5. New England (Foxboro) - 620 6. Chicago - 615 7. Kansas City - 613 8. Denver - 609 9. Seattle - 605 10. Pittsburgh - 603 11. Tampa Bay - 601 12. Washington DC (Landover, MD) - 595 13. New York (Giants) - 589 14. Dallas - 580 15. Minneapolis - 575 16. Cleveland - 566 17. Los Angeles (Chargers) - 549 18. Houston - 547 19. Baltimore - 543 20. Carolina - 540 21. Los Angeles (Rams) - 536 22. New York (Jets) - 532 23. New Orleans - 520 24. Jacksonville - 516 25. Tennesse (Nashville) - 508 26. Indianapolis - 504 27. Detroit - 496 28. Buffalo - 493 29. Atlanta - 487 30. Miami - 480 31. Cincinatti - 474 32. Phoenix - 452 Keep in mind this is the average total cost per person, prices have many variables such as seat location, opponent, sale vs resale, cost of parking, ect.

Congratulations! This forum has meant so much to me over the past 19 years, I don't know what my Martial Arts career would look like had I not found it. The people here have made me think much deeper about my Martial Arts studies, reconsider my approaches to some things, and overall helped me become a better student and teacher. I really hope this community keeps churning along for many years to come. It's still the best Martial Arts site on the planet. Kudos @Patrick on this amazing milestone!

Sounds like that is a long time problem to me. Hope it improves.

I do greatly appreciate and respect what all of you have said, means the world to me. You’ve all gave me somethings to seriously consider. In my mind, as feeble as it is, my not being able to do what I’ve been trained to do is quite inexcusable and unacceptable for me. I want to pass away like Morihei Ueshiba did…he was teaching on the day he died; he was giving a demonstration in Tokyo…he was on the floor. Yes, I can teach but I don’t want to do it from a wheelchair. Call me unreasonable…call me pig headed…call me despondent…call me what you will. I’m not giving up, no matter how despairingly I might appear to be, I need to learn how to chart a new found course and not to allow my limitations limit my abilities on the floor.

Nidan Melbourne, said it well in the above post. i am now pushing 60 in a few months. not long ago i was talking with a friend and we were reflecting on the past when we were in our prime...lol... on the verge of greatness...haha.... he was a body builder with many wins under his belt, I, a martial artist.. we both come from a wrestling background and in one way or the other always spent much time in some sort of gym, dojo, etc.... for the comradery, brotherhood, etc... anyways, as we talked and admitted we arent the same as we once were, we came to the conclusion its not ove,r its just time to step back and help the future generations. to teach and guide.... i know that is what you and many of us have done through the years, but its not over yet... there is always a way to pass on the knowledge we have gained. the experience, the stories, the trials we went through and the training we can give that has been forgotten or pushed aside.... we will always have something to give and teach to the upcoming generations... there will always be a place we can fill. and a way to do so..... it may not always be easy or how we envisioned it but it will be there if we want it...

I think that is what I meant by sequences. The way it is explained here makes more sense then the way I was trying to explain it. But yes exactly that!

Agreed, and I think they may have reconsidered as they haven't responded to any posts for some time now. But I do hope they return, as it would be interesting to see what knowledge they have to share.

NANI!!???? They CANNOT go 100 percent!!!! I train in sambo/judo and believe me, you cannot go 100 percent. In fact BJJ fighters get tons of injuries and ground fighting can be brutal because some people cant control themselves and spaz out big time trying to power through the next move. In judo and Sambo, you have to breakfall like a million reps for very long time and have EXCELLENT conditioning, you have to be very strong and flexible to endure all the turns, twist and high impact throws. This is not something you gain just walking to a grappling gym even if its a more of a lax ground style absent of big throws and takedowns. Also you can easily pull a muscle when you are defending submission attempts and getting suddenly reversed or countered in submission exchanges and scrambles. If you train with Japanese and Russians, they take conditioning VERY SERIOUSLY and are stringent with making sure students are well trained in the basics to keep themselves safe from the chaos of grappling and the intensity that comes with it. BJJ culture has a tendency to, how do I put this, glamorise what they are offering...

Congrats KarateKen and JazzKicker!! You both have every reason to be proud of yourselves!!

Wholeheartedly agree - it would be similar to a lot of modern judoka struggling with takedowns that involve leg grabs as they have never learned them since the rule changes. One of the main points of training is to build muscle memory so you respond faster / on instinct. This type of training would lead to know muscle memory being built to defend head strikes. Even if the fighter was able to 'manually' try to respond to such strikes they would inevitably be slower than one who defended it on instinct.

This brings up a good point. I also think that kind of training is likely to create a bad habit of defending only the body, so if a real encounter happens, they could be more vulnerable to head strikes. I have seen many fighters, of various experience and skill levels, go for head shots first.

To make the punches count, you're going to want to hit the vital points that can cause the most damage possible, places like the solar plexus, the floating ribs, liver punches, kidney punches, etc. The more target areas that are available to attack, the more easily one can develop a strategy to open up the vital areas. However, when the target area is limited, like to the body only, then it becomes quite easy to cover those areas and defend them. I think then the exercise devolves into a slugfest of just trading body blows until someone falls down from exhaustion or injury.

I have personally tossed around and dropped Kyokushin 1st, 2nd, and 5th Dans, while I was a 2st Dan, myself. These sorts of generalizations and style-vs-style claims don't hold up, and don't serve any real purpose.

agreed, i know many people who , out of choice, never tested beyond 1st degree, but have many years experience..i myself never tested beyond 2nd degree. yet have over 40 years in the martial arts.just saw no need to for myself. did i miss out on any training by not testing, no, not at all. testing for the most part is a visual sign of experience for lower belts. but not always an actual level of capability afterwards....

That’s quite presumptuous to indicate because, again, it’s the practitioner that one must face on the floor of battle and not the style itself. Imho.

@DarthPenguin this is from his initial post. Don't forget that @Wastelander is very open in regards to his training. Considering he is a Yondan in 1 style; it is impressive in itself as not many clubs have someone with that rank in itself. Same goes with @bushido_man96 and his years of experience. Like I'm a Nidan, but some have said I have the knowledge/experience for a 3rd/4th Dan. As I am well overdue to grade for my 3rd Dan in itself. But on the same hand; Rank and Experience can be two vastly different beasts. Like I haven't graded for the last 7 years; when I very much could have to be promoted to Sandan then be eligible to grade to Yondan this year. Even if I can't train; I am still educating myself and breaking down the basics to their biomechanical movements and doing the same with kata. Then working out how they can be best utilised for Self-Defence Routines. With respect; I do encourage discussions as to why we often do things, as it should enhance our understanding of how things work. But for that to work; both parties need to be respectful to one another.

Also, at the risk of sounding slightly rude (if it is then i apologise) can i ask what level you have gotten to in Kyokushin and / or Shotokan? I am much junior rank wise to a lot of the people on here (people don't usually make comments here based on rank which is refreshing) but some of the sentiments i am hearing are similar to ones i have heard before from newer students / members who have not trained enough to work out why some things are as they are. Sorry if this embarasses them but @Wastelander has multiple dan ranks in a variety of styles (including practical karate ones) and @bushido_man96 is a 5th dan in TKD plus works as a LEO (so will have real hands on experience of defence situations) and they both have laid out cogent points as to why body only striking as you espouse may not work for self defence. If you are equally as credentialled / skilled then fair enough but it is possible that this is a case of "you don't know what you don't know".

Surely that is the same for any attack though : if you are unprepared the consequences will be worse. Another point i would make is that often people call out exceptions to a general rule to demonstrate they are outliers / unusual. There are a few fighters i can think of who were known for body level strikes: Ricky Hatton and Michael Nunn are two boxers i immediately think of when i think of a body attack; Bas Rutten and Giga Chikadze for mma. They stand out as they were unusual (to my eyes) for their ability to finish fights with body strikes. It is a common statement that pressure testing exposes flaws and brings out the best aspects of things too: if body punching was so much more effective than anything else then professional fighters whose living (and health!) literally depends on being able to damage their opponents as much as possible whilst taking minimum impacts would focus on it a lot more. How many MMA fighters do you see try to win a fight with mainly a body attack? They use body strikes to wear out their opponent and vary their targets to be less predictable. If they could finish fights quicker, with less damage and could then fight again faster and get paid more often they would definitely go to the body all the time if that would help them.

I would agree that complicated self-defense techniques are generally a bad idea, but it's pretty rare that I come across anyone in the practical karate sphere who teaches self-defense techniques that I would consider complicated. Certainly nothing more complicated than you'd find in any other martial art or combat sport, and some pretty complex things can be pulled off, even in high level competitions, by people who have trained appropriately. I would also add that the existence of Kyokushin's knockdown sparring method actually runs counter to your argument about continuous full-power strikes. Yes, they can wear down an opponent over time, but I've seen MANY Kyokushin matches where the continuous shots to the body didn't amount to anything. Full-power strikes to vulnerable targets work, but you're going to get WAY more mileage out of striking the neck and head than you are the body. I know that this originally said "Don't live in America," rather than "bad areas," but the fact of the matter is that your location has very little to do with the types of attacks you are likely to have to deal with in a self-defense situation, because human violence tends to be gendered and age-determinate, but otherwise quite consistent. Chokeholds and bear hugs are common attacks against children and women, especially, so maybe YOU don't need to worry about it all that much, but plenty of people do. Plus, there is simply no guarantee that a statistical anomaly won't happen to you, and you get put in a chokehold or bear hug. You don't get to choose what the attacker does. Plus, the "if you don't live in bad areas" argument can be made about self-defense as a whole, as avoiding high risk areas lowers your risk in general, but doesn't have any impact on the TYPE of attack you're likely to face. Making this argument basically weakens your points about training for self-defense, because if you "don't live in bad areas," your chances of even needing to punch someone go down just as much as your chances of needing to grapple someone. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is very demonstrably false. A good punch only eliminates the need to be able to grapple if you drop the opponent with one shot before they get their hands on you. One-shot KOs against someone expecting violence (which someone attacking you will be) are rare, one-shot body KOs are even less likely, and self-defense situations don't always happen with you knowing where the attacker is and that they are going to attack you. Self-defense isn't a striking duel, like Kyokushin is. If someone attacks you, they don't have any reason to stand and bang, especially if they have any idea how to grapple someone, even without real training, and if you hit them hard, chances are they will not agree to your terms for the fight and let you keep hitting them. You wouldn't go into an MMA match as a pure striker and expect your opponent to have a kickboxing match with you, right? Same goes for self-defense. If both grappling and striking are possible, you NEED to be competent with both in order to be effective.

i think EVERY MMA fighter will disagree with this. the truth of the matter is that it would be highly accurate to bet every real fight will go to the ground...... knock outs arent as easy as most people think and fighting even an unexperienced fighter or someone trying to actually harm you isnt as technical or easy as just hitting them in the right spot. people move and turn, makes it a little different than hitting a bag or practicing partner..... just have someone blind rush you, and go low as in a tackle and evaluate from there......full speed and with intent is a game changer

Quite presumptuous that nobody will do as KarateKen has suggested. One never knows what might or might not happen. I’d rather know how than not know, just in case.

OK...but what if you get attacked from behind and someone has you in a choke hold or a bear hug? If all you know is body punches, you are going to be defenseless.

i will somewhat agree with you here. but this is also dependent on many other factors that come into play one of the biggest factors would be experience of your opponent. one thing MMA has taught is that pressure points arent going to instantly take out an opponent, neither are other flashy tricks or complicated techniques, or other such practices once used to promote martial arts. (and still are for a lot).. someone with even a tiny bit of training can be difficult to beat even for a more experienced practitioner. while a lot of things are fun to train, when it comes down to an actual real fight. its best to stick with the basics and end it as soon as possible. NEVER underestimate or play with your opponent when its real..

I think this is fantastic! Weight classes exist for a reason, and why complicate things more than they need to be?

We practice martial arts for many different reasons, and each style has a different path of ascending the same mountain. As a Uechi-Ryu stylist, we have a much narrower curriculum than many other styles; for example, we only have 8 kata in the entire system. However, as one ascends the mountain that is Uechi-Ryu, we are expected to train the entire curriculum regularly, instead of just focusing on the small segment that is our current requirements for our next belt. Furthermore, as we ascend the mountain we learn new techniques and principles, we are expected to transfer those principles to all of our prior techniques. So our hojo undo techniques (supplementary exercises, aka kihon in other styles) will look very different as a beginner/intermediate/advanced student. One thing we focus on in Uechi Ryu is conditioning. Kote kitae (forearm forging) and ashi kitae (leg forging) are staples of our training. In almost every class, you'll see us hammering away at each other's arms and legs to both desensitize them to the impact of strikes (and blocks) and to harden the bones and muscle. Likewise, when we perform sanchin kata, we tense the entire body, especially the abdominals, lats, traps, forearms, and legs. We periodically perform shime testing on our students as they perform sanchin; that is, we will pull, push, and strike them in specific spots to ensure that 1) they are able to maintain focus despite being hit, 2) that they are able to tighten their muscles to avoid injury when being struck, and 3) to ensure that they can maintain stability. I actually find it's harder to maintain stability when someone pushes on me than when they strike me. At higher ranks (dan grades), you'll even see students breaking boards over a student's body. There are videos of Uechi-Ryu stylists breaking baseball bats with their forearm, or over their shins. I've seen my CI break a 6' long 2x2 over his wife's abdominals, and you'll also see senior instructors breaking boards with their fingertips. These demonstrations are only possible after years of conditioning (I've tried breaking a board with my fingertips -- it didn't work and it hurt quite a bit. Clearly I have a lot more conditioning to do on that regard). In our school we don't spar for conditioning; we spar for both cardiovascular conditioning and also to learn to deal with the unexpected. We want to be able to defend and counter an attacker. We also want to see students demonstrate that they can put together combinations and demonstrate basic competence and confidence. Sparring isn't about winning or losing. When students spar on a test (required for brown belts and up), we aren't keeping score; we just want to see if they can use their techniques effectively. So while we do spar, and we do condition the body, we don't necessarily combine the two. However, I will say that after a couple years of body conditioning, you aren't nearly as worried when someone kicks you in the outer thighs, or loses control with a kick to the abdomen.

just teach, Honor, pretty much covers everything...............

as stated earlier. just learning to fight (with fists) is already available at any boxing gym in any city USA. you learn and condition and when ready step into the ring to spar, just shy of full contact, sure headgear may be warn, and gloves, but the safety equipment, conditioning / learning along with a waiver is paramount for insurance purposes, and safety reasons in general. as far as incorporating martial arts into the mix, thats been around since the 80's at least, with kickboxing. most trained in a boxing gym. the only addition to boxing was the mandatory 8 kick per round rule.... you cant just tell people to get in a ring and beat each other to the body, (or anywhere else) without some sort of training and conditioning to work up to that point, regardless of the type of fighting....that is where insurance and medical bills would end the business/gym pretty quickly...what youve described so far sounds more like an underground fight club more than an actual training type club of any sort. not meaning to sound harsh or negative, its just the way it comes across from the description so far.

First of all, welcome to the forum! You sure are coming out swinging with this subject! What you are proposing is essentially pre-Queensbury bareknuckle boxing, with the slight modification of not allowing punches to the head instead of it simply being uncommon due to the danger of injury. That's fine, but it's not karate. The way I see it, Shotokan and Kyokushin both significantly diminished the effective curriculum of karate by focusing almost exclusively on kicking and punching in their sparring, to begin with. You are then proposing to take one of those arts and strip it down even more so that it is just punching the body. At that point, you're just doing bareknuckle boxing. Everything that makes it karate is gone. You essentially admit that you understand this when you point out that it isn't a style of karate, and that it can be slapped onto any curriculum. I am in no way trying to offend you when I say this, but it sounds, to me, as if you DON'T actually want to train in or teach karate. Nothing in your post suggests, to me, that you actually value the art, as it is. You just value full-contact fighting, and you don't like how people are doing it. I'm afraid I will have to contradict your position on protective gear and the value of body-only sparring, as well. The fact of the matter is that protective gear allows for more consistent sparring without injury, at all levels of contact, whether you like it or not, and sparring without punches to the head develops very bad habits that will carry over into every form of fighting you try to do. As others have already mentioned, you will also have a hard time dealing with insurance as a full-contact school that uses no protective gear. I just don't see enough value in this methodology to outweigh the issues, and I certainly don't see why it should be attached to karate, at all.

i think what you are proposing is pretty much already covered in every boxing gym across the country. like sensei8 stated above, to go full on contact your insurance would be astronomical, not to mention student retention would probably be almost impossible, no one wants to (or could) go all out on a daily/weekly basis....as far as integrating it into other styles, its already there... every style covers body work / body punches from the beginning. from how to make a fist to "middle punches"...heavy bag work simulates a body and develops strength without the risk of undo injury. what you envision is bare knuckle boxing without head strikes, i really dont see a purpose for this. i could be wrong but for myself there are just more alternatives and styles that would cover more and be more practical.

Welcome to KF, Zayd_Nofal; glad that you’re here!! The effectiveness of any MA style is the responsibility of its practitioners. If the practitioner isn’t mature in its techniques, then the practitioner is ineffective, and not the style. Reason for a practitioner to not be mature in their technique is fear. What you propose might be feasible but then again, it might not be. Full control to the body with all of the force that one can muster can lead to injuries, and some injuries can be quite damaging, with the possibility that said full contact to the body might lead to a fatal injury. After all, the human body can only take so much, and the MA is designed to stop an attack, therefore, injure said attacker, if necessary. The MA is not a set of patty-cake techniques. I can only assume that the cost of insurance for a MA school as you propose would be quite expensive. If one was to teach what you propose with no insurance to protect both the students as well as the school, well, that would be very irresponsible of the CI/school. Imho.

To start out I have no experience or knowledge of these organizations or any history they might or might not have with each other. I do agree that it is a red flag to claim that attending another seminar is an ethics violation. Some schools do not play well with others, and in my opinion that is unfortunate because by preventing the students from attending you are preventing them from learning. Unless there is some type of a scam or legal issue between the organizations this is 100% unacceptable imo. And, even if there is an issue, it's questionable. Some years ago there was a lawsuit between USSD and Z-Ultimate Karate, where United Studios of Self Defense accused Z-Ultimate of rebranding USSD into a different name without consent and used their same material. The Katas, the belt system, the testing curriculum, was all the exact same as USSD, they just basically stole everything they did but changed the name. The courts sided with USSD, and Z-Ultimate was ordered to pay 7.7 million dollars in damages. However, even then there were students who were cross training between the two schools and were allowed to. Another example, there was an Aikido school in town that did not allow students to attend seminars of other styles, dojos, or instructors. If the students did not obey this rule they were banned from training at the Aikido dojo. I don't like it. Actually, no, I hate it. If I was training somewhere and they told me I wasn't allowed to expand my knowledge by learning from others I would quit that school and go somewhere else. Major issue for me.

I'm making this post prior to ready any other comments, so it's just my straight reaction. Personally, any ultimatum like that rubs me the wrong way. Big red flag. There is definitely something they are trying to control here. And they are definitely exerting an inordinate amount of control over their members here. They sound like they are scared of something. I don't know what the wedge between the two organizations is, but it doesn't appear that the JTK has the same issues. What I'd like to know is how they intend to find out who attended the seminar? Big red flag for me.

^^^ this.. I have trained with some of the organizations you mentioned in your post, and while they can speak similarly in terms of negatives such as cross training, it has never resulted in "disciplinary actions"; it's almost religious at this point, which creeps me out .. there was also this comment on reddit: "Not surprised one bit. Where I am to even join JKA, you need to submit a letter you sent to your Sensei basically stating you're leaving them as proof that you've committed to them. They may even hold ranks away from you because of this. Horribly political. "