Does any school?

[Lupin1]

Our kids don't get their belt/gi until they've been coming regularly for a month. It's more to make sure they're going to stick with it before they spend the money on a gi and belt.

[MatsuShinshii]

Nope no club i have trained/taught at has ever had that rule. Every student has received automatically their White Belt.

So far my club (the one i just started) you receive it automatically. Students who have had their rank removed or they forgot their belt are a Mukyu (no rank) for that class or whatever period of time.

Your school removes grade? For what types of infractions, can I ask?

I have never removed a persons grade and know of only one instance of someone loosing their grade and that was for a major integrity infraction of an instructor.

Technically the grade could not be removed outside of the art as the student holds the certificate but within the art it is.

[ashworth]

I haven't been in a club where you have to earn your white belt, I like to think if I accept a student they become a white belt...

and I hate seeing a gi without a belt...

[Alan Armstrong]

Everything should be earned (Including a white belt) as it is an integral part of respect and appreciation.

[sensei8]

Your school removes grade? For what types of infractions, can I ask?

Yes, the SKKA will, and has, removed rank.

Please check this link...

http://www.karateforums.com/integrity-how-important-is-it-as-an-instructor-vt49928.html?highlight=misdemeanor+shindokan

You, MatsuShinshii, and I, and others here, spoke about this very thing...integrity!! Soke has ZERO tolerance for even the very slightest impropriety!!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Nope no club i have trained/taught at has ever had that rule. Every student has received automatically their White Belt.

So far my club (the one i just started) you receive it automatically. Students who have had their rank removed or they forgot their belt are a Mukyu (no rank) for that class or whatever period of time.

Your school removes grade? For what types of infractions, can I ask?

I have never removed a persons grade and know of only one instance of someone loosing their grade and that was for a major integrity infraction of an instructor.

Technically the grade could not be removed outside of the art as the student holds the certificate but within the art it is.

I will only ever remove a students grade where their actions have brought Martial Arts into disrepute. Such as injuring other students with malice or lack of control.

I disagree with your last comment in part because for me with every grade it has associated behaviours and attitudes with it. And every single one of my students understands that. As certificates are just a piece of paper, like how the belt is just to hold your pants up.

Those students will receive their rank back once they demonstrate that they know and accept that all actions and have an equal and opposite reaction. As their actions will always have a consequence.

[advfhorn]

We have to earn our white belt, usually after 2-3 classes and starting to learn our student creed and motto.

[mushybees]

A white belt is given with the gi. Imo just the act of choosing to take up a martial art and start the journey is worthy of recognition.

[MatsuShinshii]

Nope no club i have trained/taught at has ever had that rule. Every student has received automatically their White Belt.

So far my club (the one i just started) you receive it automatically. Students who have had their rank removed or they forgot their belt are a Mukyu (no rank) for that class or whatever period of time.

Your school removes grade? For what types of infractions, can I ask?

I have never removed a persons grade and know of only one instance of someone loosing their grade and that was for a major integrity infraction of an instructor.

Technically the grade could not be removed outside of the art as the student holds the certificate but within the art it is.

I will only ever remove a students grade where their actions have brought Martial Arts into disrepute. Such as injuring other students with malice or lack of control.

I disagree with your last comment in part because for me with every grade it has associated behaviours and attitudes with it. And every single one of my students understands that. As certificates are just a piece of paper, like how the belt is just to hold your pants up.

Those students will receive their rank back once they demonstrate that they know and accept that all actions and have an equal and opposite reaction. As their actions will always have a consequence.

In the context you speak of I understand and agree with you.

However in the context I was speaking of, grade or rank is not just a piece of paper or a belt around someones waste. If you took my belt and burned all of my certifications today I would still be the same grade. The grade is the knowledge and skill you have attained not the piece of paper or piece of cloth you speak of.

Yes you can take a students certificate back or take their belt and make them wear a different color but you can never take back their level of attainment in the art and therefor you can never truly take away their rank.

To me the belt and paper are for others. The knowledge and skill are for me. I don't care if I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt because I make the grade not the other way around. I will always be the grade I earned whether I'm wearing a black belt or a bath robe.

To me once you have attained the knowledge and skill it matters not whether someone takes my belt and certifications. I can walk into another Dojo and they will know what grade I am even without the benefit of seeing a belt and paper to prove it.

Having said that I also understand the human condition. That belt to many is everything and by taking it away you enforce the lesson you wanted them to learn. I also understand that utilizing this has a physiological effect on those that view the belt or a piece of paper as what defines them.

However to me I define the rank. So you can never take away my rank.

[sensei8]

The demotion of a student doesn't literally remove that knowledge and experience. It's a formal disciplinary action, but that action must be for cause, and for cause alone.

When our Hombu demoted by most senior student by one grade because he omitted a criminal conviction of a misdemeanor offense on a official documentation required by the Hombu. The conviction wouldn't of barred him, but the intentional omission challenged the integrity across the board.

When my student brought to me the letter, expecting me to defend him, I just shrugged my shoulder, and offered no defense for him.

The Hombu has never ever changed a Shogo title, no matter the infraction; those are lifetime bestowments.