Titles

[Bulltahr]

I think Kaicho has only given that title to two students. My CI was telling me that there was a gentleman here in the States that was a 5th dan, but was much older and had much more martial arts experience than the rest of the 5th dans at the time, and therefore gave him the title Seishi to differentiate him from the rest. My CI said he was the only one given that title, and he passed away several years ago. Obviously he wasn't the only one.

Similar story I believe, he trained in various martial arts through his life and came to Seido later on. Still incredible to watch, esp his flexibility....

[Karate_John]

At your dojo, do you use the titles; Shihan, Kyoshi, Renshi etc? If so what are the requirements to your knowledge are there for them?

Be it grade (more often than not), age or position in the club/organisation. For instance at my club we have the title of Sensei awarded at Sandan (not earlier).

Also who decides the promotion of title? Is it the student or the instructors instructor?

I ask because my sensei today was promoted to Godan (i made a separate post with details). And several of us Yudansha were considering making a formal promotion for him in regards to title.

But we are seeking on advice of Senior Martial Artists for their honest opinion.

Arigato Gozaimasu

In my organization a title is not given just because of rank. Titles have a Age, Rank, and time in grade requirement. They also need to be voted on by our board of directors.

Basic requirements are the following.

-----------basic titles------------------

All black belts are Mr./Ms.

Nidan and above are Sempi.

Sandan and above if teaching are Sensei.

----------------------------------

Renshi age 30 and 2 years after Yodan.

Kyoshi age 40 and 5 years after Godan.

Hanshi age 60 and 10 years after Hachidan.

[MatsuShinshii]

I am new to the forums. One of my students told me I should check it out and I have surfed for about a month before joining.

I am a traditional Karateka and although I have heard Modern Dojo utilize some of these as titles, they are not. At least not in the traditional sense.

Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi are teaching licenses and should not be used to refer to oneself. This is akin to calling your self drivers license George.

I mean no disrespect to those that utilize Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi and even Shidoin as titles but this is not traditional nor an actual title. On Okinawa instructors refer to themselves as Shinshii or Sensei and sometimes Shihan or Kaicho but never by their teaching licenses. The one exception would be Hanshi. I do know of two high ranking instructors on Okinawa that use Hanshi as a title.

Sensei, Shinshii, Shihan, O'Sensei, Soke, Kaicho, etc. are titles.

Again no disrespect.

[sensei8]

I am new to the forums. One of my students told me I should check it out and I have surfed for about a month before joining.

I am a traditional Karateka and although I have heard Modern Dojo utilize some of these as titles, they are not. At least not in the traditional sense.

Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi are teaching licenses and should not be used to refer to oneself. This is akin to calling your self drivers license George.

I mean no disrespect to those that utilize Renshi, Kyoshi, Hanshi and even Shidoin as titles but this is not traditional nor an actual title. On Okinawa instructors refer to themselves as Shinshii or Sensei and sometimes Shihan or Kaicho but never by their teaching licenses. The one exception would be Hanshi. I do know of two high ranking instructors on Okinawa that use Hanshi as a title.

Sensei, Shinshii, Shihan, O'Sensei, Soke, Kaicho, etc. are titles.

Again no disrespect.

Welcome to KF, MatsuShinshii; glad that you're here!!

Solid post!! Solid points!!

My Hanshi is just that, as you've stated, a teaching license, and nothing more, bestowed upon me by our Governing Body. In that, I never refer to myself by my teaching license. In official correspondences, I might, and I mean might, tag my Hanshi at the end, just under my name, just above my rank.

Never have I put my teaching license in front of or at the end of my name in any shape, way, and/or form. Why? Because that's not my name!

Whenever I write an official correspondence for the SKKA, I'll close it with my name and my SKKA title of Kaicho. My title will go, again, under my name, and not before or after it...this is my choice.

Both my Soke and Dai-Soke did the same: Name, then under that, their title, in any official correspondences. Neither of them or myself have ever added our teaching license on official correspondences and/or unofficial correspondences because it would be incorrect. Albeit, the context must be appropriate.

Ever since I've been here at KF, 2008, I've addressed my Shogo, unofficially, as a title. I don't think that's wrong? No, not really, within this venue, imho.

[RJCKarate]

It's hard to say what is wrong and right in a lot of ways. To refer to yourself verbally as many of those titles is incorrect, but sometimes it's even done in Okinawa, I often think that's because they're adjusting to western expectations, wrongly or rightly.

In my dojo, I use Kancho when signing things or if asked about title. It simply means chief of dojo (building) or head instructor, and is fine to refer to yourself as, rather than Sensei. All my students use sensei verbally, some use Kancho when emailing me - I don't mind.

Re teaching licences, it's absolutely fine to use it when referring to yourself in business cards, or in signatures. Nearly every single business card I have from Okinawa have their rank, teaching title, and positron (in my association, that's Kancho, fuku kaicho, and Kaicho).

So signing a letter like this:

John Doe, Kancho

Renshi, 6th Dan

Would be fine, in my opinion. The teaching licence can be written similar to academic qualifications and within similar parametres. Using "Dr" like "sensei" and using "renshi" like PhD. It's not exact, but it's ok for useage guidelines.

[sensei8]

It can be quite interesting when one considers the many ways one can sign any official correspondences, and then to have it judged by those outside of their immediate circle as directed by their governing body, can feel quite daunting.

Sure, I can write and sign my name and the like just about anyway I want to. However, protocol dictates that any and all correspondences must be handled per the requirements of the recipient. If not, I run the risk of having the letter thrown out, and/or have my correspondence not given the proper consideration.

For example, If I write correspondence to the President of the United States, I better follow protocol to the nth degree, or face the fate of not being taken serious at any level.

Same might be said of the protocol at your governing body. How one's to address individuals as well as departments and the like must meet those expectations. One, it's polite, to do as required. Two, it's rude, to not do as required.

If a governing body ignores someone just because they used the word "title" inappropriately, and that particular protocol is required, yet ignored, one can expect no returning correspondences anytime soon, if at all.

Our own SKKA, has protocol, that can be for sure, but we're merciful on these type of mistakes because to ignore a possible important and vital correspondences on a technicality, even though an important technicality, can harm the SKKA one way or another, depending on the degree of seriousness.

I'm a respecter of protocol!! Protocol was drilled into us all at the SKKA/Hombu, and oftentimes, leniency wasn't tolerated, not even the slightest.

[JR 137]

Allow me to throw this one out there...

Is always using titles a Japanese karate thing? Both organizations I've been in are Japanese. My first organization was headed by an American, but was previously a direct student of a Japanese instructor (Tadashi Nakamura). My current organization is run by Tadashi Nakamura. Nakamura was born and raised in Japan, and sent here to the States to spread Kyokushin until he left Kyokushin in '76 and founded Seido Juku.

We always refer to and address someone by their title. Even outside the dojo, unless that person has asked you not to. Yudansha have specific titles corresponding with their dan rank, i.e. all 4th dans are Sensei, 5th dans are Kiyoshi, etc.

Nakamura is Japanese born and raised, so this isn't an instance of a non-Japanese person doing things he/she thinks is Japanese. Kyokushin is the same, albeit with some different titles at different ranks. Other Japanese systems I've seen are similar in this regard, including ones without Mas Oyama in their lineage.

Everyone that's commented here comes from an Okinawan school, except Bulltahr, who's in the same organization I am.

I really haven't thought of it until now, but is the strict use of titles a Japanese thing, whereas the more informal (for lack of a better word) use of them an Okinawan thing? Or is it more of a Mas Oyama thing?

How strictly does Shotokan adhere to the use of titles? Wado?

[MatsuShinshii]

It's hard to say what is wrong and right in a lot of ways. To refer to yourself verbally as many of those titles is incorrect, but sometimes it's even done in Okinawa, I often think that's because they're adjusting to western expectations, wrongly or rightly.

In my dojo, I use Kancho when signing things or if asked about title. It simply means chief of dojo (building) or head instructor, and is fine to refer to yourself as, rather than Sensei. All my students use sensei verbally, some use Kancho when emailing me - I don't mind.

Re teaching licences, it's absolutely fine to use it when referring to yourself in business cards, or in signatures. Nearly every single business card I have from Okinawa have their rank, teaching title, and positron (in my association, that's Kancho, fuku kaicho, and Kaicho).

So signing a letter like this:

John Doe, Kancho

Renshi, 6th Dan

Would be fine, in my opinion. The teaching licence can be written similar to academic qualifications and within similar parametres. Using "Dr" like "sensei" and using "renshi" like PhD. It's not exact, but it's ok for useage guidelines.

I also utilize the same method when writing official letters as is customary.

John Doe,

Shinshii

Renshi, Rokudan

I was more talking about Modern instructors referring to themselves as Shidoin, Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi when introducing themselves.

Its one thing to write a letter and include your credentials and another when you are using your license as a title.

We have the following titles but have certain etiquette's about how and when they are used.

Shinshii or Sensei is used to describe anyone that has been granted the ability and proven skills to teach (typically Sandan or Yondan) under the organization. Students and others should refer to the instructor using this title.

Shihan is used to describe anyone that has students that are instructors and have met the organizations requirements as a expert instructor (meaning that they know, understand, and can proficiently pass on all techniques of the art to include all Kata and their Bunkai [Tuite, Tegumi, and Kyusho] techniques) Is referred to by the students of ones students but never referred to oneself as Shihan. Rather we opt to refer to ourselves as Shinshii or Sensei.

Kaicho. This is a title that can and should be used to refer to yourself as it is a position within the organization.

Soke. Again this is a title that can and should be used to refer to oneself as this is denoting the position as head of the organization/art.

Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi on the other hand are to denote the instructors teaching level and not a position or title.

Agin no disrespect meant. This is how I have been taught and this is how we utilize these titles/license/positions in our art.

[MatsuShinshii]

Allow me to throw this one out there...

Is always using titles a Japanese karate thing? Both organizations I've been in are Japanese. My first organization was headed by an American, but was previously a direct student of a Japanese instructor (Tadashi Nakamura). My current organization is run by Tadashi Nakamura. Nakamura was born and raised in Japan, and sent here to the States to spread Kyokushin until he left Kyokushin in '76 and founded Seido Juku.

We always refer to and address someone by their title. Even outside the dojo, unless that person has asked you not to. Yudansha have specific titles corresponding with their dan rank, i.e. all 4th dans are Sensei, 5th dans are Kiyoshi, etc.

Nakamura is Japanese born and raised, so this isn't an instance of a non-Japanese person doing things he/she thinks is Japanese. Kyokushin is the same, albeit with some different titles at different ranks. Other Japanese systems I've seen are similar in this regard, including ones without Mas Oyama in their lineage.

Everyone that's commented here comes from an Okinawan school, except Bulltahr, who's in the same organization I am.

I really haven't thought of it until now, but is the strict use of titles a Japanese thing, whereas the more informal (for lack of a better word) use of them an Okinawan thing? Or is it more of a Mas Oyama thing?

How strictly does Shotokan adhere to the use of titles? Wado?

I can not answer this question as I have spent most of my 36+ years in Okinawan arts.

We do use titles but they are much more informal as most instructors are referred to as Shinshii or Sensei. Even Kodansha are addressed as Shinshii and Sensei per their request.

I can tell you that our licenses are not dictated upon rank in our art.

You do not automatically receive your Renshi teaching license upon being awarded Godan. You may not be awarded this license until Rokudan or you may be awarded this license at Yondan. It solely depends on your skills, knowledge and proficiency as a teacher.

However they do somewhat correspond as you do not reach a specific rank unless you have the skills to teach. Basically if you do not have the necessary abilities to be awarded Renshi you are not going to be promoted to the rank of Rokudan until you do.