NightOwl

Nah, noo need to be fancy, and all tatics DO fall under one of the three ranges, I'm just sayin' that it'd be intresting to see new strategies pop up in those ranges and the UFC evolve from there.

Is there any reliable way to help raise tolerance for taking punches (other than crunches, etc for the stomach area)? Telling people 'Yo mama' jokes in a biker bar seems to be an option, but I'd like to avoid that...

You make a very good point here. Hear hear! Though they could have sampled at least more than one person from each art if they wanted to get a good average on readings, but that would have taken up too much time I suppose. However it was cool to see a number placed on punch/kick power....I wanna try that! (and will probally end up in the negative digits )

With Judo becoming more and more popular, what art would you like to see next come up big in the UFC? Judo made it because grappling wins alot of fights, and it trains with full resistance sparring. You'd have to still crosstrain in grappling, but I would love to see a CMA finally break through. You've got Tailand (muay tai), Japan (Judo and orgins of BJJ), Brazil (BJJ), and the West(Boxing, greco-roman/freestyle), but China has come off rather poorly since the dawn of MMA(Then again, CMA have had it rough since 1949 anyhow). It would be exciting and refreshing to see a striking style like southern mantis make it out into the mainstream. It WOULD be possible, but the practioner would need to do full-contact training and heavy practice with the styles mentioned before. No one seems to have attempted to adapt this sort of thing yet (it would take more work IMO than just learning the popular styles since you'd basically have to re-invent the training for the art), but lately I think the fights have gotten a bit too predictable (not as to who will win, but as to what will be used), and it'd be fun and exciting to see what people could do with techniqes that are in need of some dusting off.

So the mind is the greatest weapon...I'd better start working on those grades a bit more . Though I suppose you still gotta factor in MA training into that mindset unless you plan on usuing a dictionary as a blunt weapon....

That's quite an impressive list! Looks like you've got everything covered. I put in 3, but the only MA that I stuck with for awhile was TKD up until Highschool, but I eventually quit because I saw that in my gym I was gaining rank but just because I could get the belt didn't mean that I was improving in skill. I was out of MA for awhile, and during my Senior year tried out Wing Chun but only for 2.5 months...I was very impressed by the teacher and the art (still find myself referencing some of the basic trapping and centerline foucas now and then) but it wasn't for me. I then did boxing/striking at a MMA gym for 2 months and loved it, but had to stop due to college. I hope to restart MA soon...

What Gi techniques (Judo or BJJ) would work well with clothing like a t-shirt? I'd imagine that some trtanslate well and others don't, how about some of the more common attacks?

a side question that relates to the topic: Are the tassles on alot of the chinese weapons really meant to confuse an opponent? I'd imagine that they are more of a recent addition for show, but I know very little about CMA weapons...

does a kubotan handle like a a retractable kali stick then?

:snort: What the heck is he doing in that first photo? Shadow puppets???? "And this one is Abraham Lincoln." With respect, Sohan he must be giving him his whopper burger...few people know that Burger King is actually a NINJA

It was entertaining, and I'd love to see a serious study of the history and styles of MA, but this one was too flashy and every other introduction started with, 'According to legend...'. I want dates and names! Also, what about the ninja guy?

from a pugilist perspective, power. the windmill comes all the way from kansas, giving it plenty of time to build momentum. Combined with full body torque, it can create a pretty powerful strike. sure. But if you and I fight and eeryone who attended went to either your school or mine (challenge matches were usually not public) then of course, my classmates won't tell anyone I suck, and I assume yours wouldn't say that about you. So then everyone who hears about it hears biased accounts... ah yes, but the fist shaped indentation in my face would probally show who the winner of said match would be . Again, more documentation needed (and lacking). If I ever have the time, I might try and see what I can pull up (detail-wise) on the subject. Unfortunately, scholars didn't make up for most MAs.

sure it does. But in the grand scheme of things, can he REALLY fight, or is he just better than other unskilled drunks. It merely makes him the best of the worst. Similarly, if you have a bunch of guys training, but none of them have ever had a fight, you have fighting that looks sloppy, like the vid I posted. the best of those guys would still be the best of the worst, even though they fought to the death. Since we only hear about these guys second hand, we really can't assume how well they fought. the windmilling is seen in several longfist type boxing styles. you can see it in northern longfist, choy lay fut, hop gar and various other styles. Nope, I only learned one and saw roughly 3 (never saw the WC weapons come into play there). What exactly is the purpose of the windmilling? Trapping? I thought that it left your front a little too open for a tackle/ striaght punch.... And no, we cannot say exactly HOW good a of fighters they were based off of the fact that the event occured, but if people were attending it is probally a safe bet that some had combat experiene before. You are correct however, in that more information is needed. Unfortunately, serious historical works on martial arts are not always easy to find... Hmm, all this and just based off of one point of the argument for kata saying that 'the old masters did it.' Perhaps it is a case where the old isn't better than the new in my opinion. The old masters probally didn't bathe as much either...

80 lbs!? I'd imagine that the chinese weapons kata would be alot different if they were using weapons of that weight!

My apologies! I got two different weapons mixed up! I was thinking of the Kama (hence the comment about the shape of the weapon).

perhaps. But the thing about these fights is that SOMEONE has to win. If you see to untrained drunks fighting in a bar, one must win, no? If drunk A beats drunk B, did he REALLY know his stuff, or did he just win that fight? Look at the fight I posted with gongyi. Those two masters looked clueless. But eventually someone would've won, if it were a streetfight. (this fight was sanctioned and was considered a draw.) As you agree, good fighters have never been part of the mainstream. Given that, then what is the liklihood that all of the masters were good fighters? Once again, I'm not saying that none of them were, but I don't think there were as many as we would like to think there were. pankration. for all practical purposes, it was wrestling and boxing. That's the name. Who knew such brutality could come from the home of the Gyros? As yes, if drunk A beats drunk B then you can attribute it to 'being the better of the worse', however if drunk A beats drunks CDEF afterwards, then a pattern for a knack of fighting emerges no? There were the equivelent of boxers and wrestlers back then as well, so it would not be hard to imagine that muscleheads (yes, they have always been around), street fighters, etc wouldn't attend such events as well. During the warring states period MAs were referred to as 'ji ji', and descirptions at the time describer practitioners as, "...people who bravely hit their enemies and put them to death". Although to be more balanced, it was also during this period that 'Jiao Di' play (showcase wrestling) flared up, and the 'artistic' rather than the martial began to get more emphasis. Another case in the past was when MA (when staring a school) were sometimes known to rough up some local heavies/thugs in order to promote their art. Again though, like in the previous example given, MA's in the past have been too showy and not applicible as well. Thus the conclusion is this: The dichotomy of martial and art has and always will be around. By the by.... When was the film in question made? CMA have been diluted alot by forms and the fog of time during the past century, and after the 1960's (if these guys are actually from China), MA's virtually stopped on the mainland until more modern times with the creation of 'Wushu.' the old chinese training methodology involved few forms or none. They, like I mention a lot, trained via drilling and conditioning. the forms that were used were trainined for a specific reason, a la qigong development in taiji, or to train a specific body mechanic intrinsic to the style. My karate teacher, who was japanese, only taught two kata - taikyoku shodan and sanchin. He knew all of them and helped me with them, as I was also training shotokan alsewhere, but he himself only taught two to his students. The first was because he thought it was great for teaching footowork and hip rotation, and the second for internal development. Back to the topic though, as time went on, people cross trained, adding new forms to what they already knew, some styles became extinct and people added those forms to their own in order to retain some knowledge of the extinct style, etc. What we ended up with are styles today that have 20 + forms. Perhaps the same is true with japanese kata. I could easily see a similar scenerio play out in Japan. But with all the kata adding up, it has become a bit of a monster IMO. WingChun only had about 3 (that I knew of ....in the whole 2 1/2 months that I took it ). With some styles of Karate having 60+, I think that that is WAY too much time spent on memorization and not nearly enough on application (the exercise gained from kata could just as easily be gained from another source) PS: Just watched the fight video and I must say it reminds me of highschool fights...VERY sloppy. Judging by the video quality I'm GUESSING that this was made during the Nationalist era...but I have no way of knowing for sure without more information...ha, I'm really curious now! Tai chi was the one guy's (is it a martial art? I thought that it was a meditative exercise?) and white crane the other's... has a modern place's advertisment for this style. It features alot of the 'windmilling' that I noticed in the fight.

I've wondered that as well. As far as if it actually was used outside of just practice in MA, it doesn't SEEM to pop up in pre-firearm Japanese warfare...but then again, I am hardly an expert on the subject. For modern day applications, I'd say it's basically just for fun/preserving a bit of military history. The reasons include: A: to actually find one that isn't made just for show/display is hard to do. Most likely if you see one for sale the metal will be dull and not strong enough for combat. B: Like the sword, it's not something that you could carry around everywhere anymore. If you do decide to bring it with you as a weapon for SD, you can look forward to being denied access to pretty much anywhere indoors outside of your house and having to stop walking every block because police are constantly questioning you as to why you are carrying such a large and obvious weapon (despite a gun being more deadly and yet legal). That is why knives (despite not being as deadly as swords) are the non-ranged weapon of choice in the modern world: they pack easily and don't stand out. Same goes for guns, but then if you have a ranged weapon there's not too much point in carrying around a blade as well (unless you want TSA to have a field day). C: Tactics with a kubotan don't translate well to everyday objects as well as other weapons (such as subsituting a pipe, bat, or stick for a katana, etc) due to it's shape. Thus if you want modern functionality, look to another weapon.

I found a BJJ place near the school I will be studying at, and the college itself has a judo club. I guess the main thing will be to wait until I can check both places out. I have an opportunity to do some BJJ for january, so I'll work with that for the month and during the summer.

ah, maybe...MA history is sketchy at best. Anyone have an answer to the original purpose of kata?

Thanks for the replies! Daido Juku seems good, but is too far away. However, I think I will check out ICHIGEKI.

Nah, there are too many pirates in the UFC

exactly, which I mentioned in my rant earlier. However to get a bit more on topic, did the masters in question fin their fights by intimidating their opponents with their kata so much that they curled into the fetal position and started crying? Or did they actually USE the tehniques rather than putting them all together in one long kata, only doing that later as a way to remember the moves without writing them down?

No, I don't think they allow hands to the head. May want to go with Shotokan for that. Yes, perhaps if the right dojo came up. I don't care for point sparring sparring however.... Doing a bit of reading into Kyokushin (via the all-knowing wikipedia ) they used to allow head punches, but phased it out. If I could find a place that still had it...Anyhow, sorry to be so picky !

Ah yes, that's what I was looking for! Anyhow, the point being that the 'old guys' were not necessarily pushovers. There were plenty who were quite formidable, but niether were they all invincible demi-gods who could take on 100+ men, win UFC in 5 seconds, etc. (but they could make a mean pita ). Reality is somewhere between "The old masters could take on anyone...look at Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon!", and "A MMA granny could wipe the floor with anyone who came from before Gracie! After all, people were stupider and NEVER trained as hard as we do today!".

Ashihara and kyokushin do seem to be more oriented towards this...do they allow head punches as opposed to just kicks? I'm not particularly fast enough on my feet to pull off a high kick, but would still like to be able to train with the head as a viable target. Thanks!