NightOwl

Hey Karatekas! I'll be studying in Japan next year and I'm planning on picking up a martial art there. Most likely it will be with the school's Judo club or with a BJJ gym that is nearby, but the thought of studying karate does have an appeal to it! I'm aware of about 4 (?) styles of Karate: Shotokan, Goju-Ryu, Wado-Ryu, and Shito-Ryu. Are there any more esoteric styles? I'm not a big fan of Kata (however I can respect and live with it), but would be intrested in a style that has more hand attacks/sparring (punching is not a big part of most Kumite I belive). Any ideas?

considering that most of us have never really seen the old masters in action, it's hard to say. I have seen footage of a fight that happened cerca1954 between two chinese masters, and they both looked like a joke. I know there are people back in the day who could actually fight, but I think we tend to over romanticize how good some of them were. Not only that, but given the advances we've had in training and training methods, the guys of today would be at a big advantage. I would not agree that they could beat most of the MA of today. However, that should be qualified - the master of yesterday should be put against a master of today, not just some generic new guy. Also, muay thai does not have forms. wrestling does not have forms. boxing does not have forms - and traditionally, they have not had forms (other muay have, but muay thai has not) - so would the muaythai fighter 80 years ago have beaten a JMA or CMA master 80 years ago? Way too much speculation in either case. We will never know. That said though, look at what happened when kano introduced randori - his guys beat the top traditional jujutsu schools in japan. Ah! Double post, but I do find the topic of 'old masters' intresting, so I'll put in my 2 cents on this as well: Having studied some of the history of CMA, there have been times when MA DID in fact become for the most part 'all show' even in the past. In 1804, the Qing Emperor complained that the combat system taught to the army had , "(become) all flowery movements...only for show and performances, not for practical use." Then again, you also have instances like the MMA competition in 1260 where entrants had to waiver any liabilities for 'being beaten to death.' Also, in 1920's the nationalist goverment banned 'open challenges' where an inspiring teacher would establiush himself by issuing a fighting challenge in the town where he wanted to set up (or if he wanted to take over a school). Certainly during THESE times if you didn't know your stuff, you would face a WORLD of hurt. Thus, there were and WERE NOT old MAs who could handle themselves. Good fighters have never been part of the mainstream anyhow, there were never any 'good old days', but people are not superhuman today either. The idea of combative MA has come in and out of fasion (usually fading more into 'arts' during times of peace), but MMA are not a new idea. Personally if it came to toughness, i'd bet on ancient greek no-hold-barred wrestlers (I'm going blank on the name at the moment...). Killing your opponent was considered a sure way to win back then....

Cool vids! Traditional MA don't have to be 'fluffy', Kata make sense as a way to record and remember sets of moves, but if you can write the moves down (paper wasn't always easy to get back when)/ record them, why spend 1/4 of your training practicing the moves without applying them? Karate kata (since this is the karate form) contain ALOT of moves that usually aren't used anymore...if you want to learn them, use 'em! But kata IS NOT an end in itself.

If it is who I'm thinking of: Ashida Kim is a white American guy who gave himself a korean name and claimed to be a master of 'Hidden art of the Japanese Ninja' (man, he has his cultures mixed up!). He has since been shown as a fraud and con artist who was just riding the wave of Ninja hype during the 80's.

perhaps. But that is something you don't really know until you are actually in an altercation, which statistically is something most adults will never experience. Yes, that is true (plus I'd imagine that weapons would usually be involved in a mugging which would make most unarmed combat training a moot point). However, would this course really prepare you either for that kind of situation? The closest thing you could get would be sparring with full contact and little rules, and even then there are constraints in place to prevent student deaths (always bad for business!). You can NEVER safely replicate what would happen 'on the street' (a term which has become a MA cliche) unless your gym is in a dimly lit parking garage and your students paractice against random people off the street who are allowed to attack with no-holds-barred. However, with the few actual fights that I have seen, the attacks are usually quite sloppy. One on one, if I was confident of a MA's training, I'd bet on the MA vs. a thug. The problem is that thugs know that there is streangth in numbers, so if you wanted to add more realism to the situation you'd have 3-6 guys (some armed with blunt objects, some with knives, some unarmed) in which case for the MA(unless they are some hardcore guy who carries around a katana) a gun is the best defense.

I agree, and the problem that I usually have with kata (at least in my experience) is that what is being done is usually not shown later on in a trainging situation. Instead, kata have become sort of a world into themselves and gone into something different then combat application and into a form of exercise/art. That is fine with me as long as that's what they are taken for (the 'art' of martial arts), but in their present form kata in my opinion are not very useful for training for fighting/self defense

I wouldn't disagree that there are alot of MA who wouldn't do well if someone attacked them (I'm thinking in this case of the type of individual who gets a blackbelt in a year by paying his way to it, etc). BUT, there are planety of MA who DO know how to handle themselves properly in a fight, and this whole thing seems to me at least like one of those promotions for a 'Turning YOU into a one hit kill tough-as-nails unstopable toughguy who can handle any situation and anyone because we teach you how it goes down on the STREET!' kind of deals.

I know that we've all dreamed at one time or another of defending a beautiful lady from a hulking gorilla with huge biceps who falls after a few well placed strikes. However there are so many varibles in a fight that having size/streanth is a real asset. I'd say this: a lightly trained MA VS a huge bodybuilder=likely win for the musclehead. A highly trained MA VS a huge Muscle builder=Likely win the the MA. I've seen big guys get out-grappled and out punched becuase while they had such a huge size, they couldn't fight real well (and even some of them could!). However never underestimate anyone! That big guy very well might have training in wrestling or boxing, and even if they don't, their mass means that any strikes that do connect WILL HURT! Thus to sum things up: at an initial level I'd say MASS>SKILL, at a higher level SKILL>MASS, and if you increase the mass, you must increase the skill accordingly to keep the odds in favor of the MA. PS: never underestimate a little guy either, they can have some nasty punches!

Hi everyone! I have been out of MA for a little while now but am itching to get back in! I had a brief 2.5 month stint in WingChun, and about 2 months boxing/striking at a Stright Blast Gym (which I had to quit due to college). I am fairly happy with my striking (I am not planning on going pro boxing or trying to out-stike the reincarnation of bruce lee anytime soon) and of course I want to check up and stay in shape with that, but I really have been wanting to due some grappling. I will have a chance to take BJJ for the summer (by far not enough time to master it, I know) and after that will be spending a year studying in Japan. I was thinking that while I was there I would either continue BJJ or take up Judo. I'm 6', about 130lbs, and am not too strong by any streatch of the imagination...would one of these arts fit me better (in general, I know that having the right or wrong instructor/gym can make all the difference). To add a little further more: I would like to be able to learn how to graple against a larger/stronger opponent, would both of these possibly help me with that? My grappling (beyond clinching and not knowing what to do from there) needs alot of work, and both of these have their good points (Judo with standing, BJJ with ground), I just don't know if I will be able to do both.

I am currently not training in any art right now due to college, lack of transportation, etc. But when I do get a chance to 'spar around' I like to practice with knee strikes, boxing, and although I only did it for a short period, a litlle but of WingChun mixed in (Once you try it it'll stick with you!)

I've had a chance to check out one of these gyms. The guy teaching there had a yearly trip to japan for instruction from the only grandmaster in the art, and seemed fairly legit; although I will confess, I am a bit skeptical about if Budo Taijitsu as its own art carried on for generations or if it is more or less a modern creation, but the advanced practicioners seemed to mean business. I had a chance to spar around with one recently and they used alot of palm stikes to the face and throat as well as some light trapping which reminded me a little of Wing Chun (as well as a couple of simple throws). Then again this person had not practiced since 2 years ago, so I certainly wouldn't say that they had shown me everything there is to know all in all, it depends on who you are with and how they teach it. There's some weapons training and alot of drilling, but not TOO much in the way of sparring (although I have heard that eventually you get into 'free-form drills'). Check it out, make sure that no one's wearing black ninja outfits, and see if you like it from there.

lol, I remember my friend telling me about participating in Karate training while living in Japan during the late 70's. They'd get wacked hard with a stick if their stances weren't right! The good ol' days eh?

Yep, you gotta be careful to check out who you are training under...with so many MA out there it is easy for guys looking for a quick buck to claim to have trained at Shaolin since age 2, been best friends with Bruce Lee's 2nd cousin, etc. and in the process make life harder for all of those who are legitimately teaching CMA

I second the reccomendation for Kungfu Hustle ! Definately a fun movie! I'll also have to check out the movies listed so far here as well...you don't see WC in movies too often...

Howdy! I've been lurking around for a bit, and decided to take the plunge! Currently I am not practicing anything but that will change in the near future (see my topic in 'Getting Started in the Martial Arts' for my MA backround...and yes, that was a shameless plug!) Look forward to talking with you all!

The best ways I know are: A. He has only one hand free...use your two for strikes to the face (already mentioned) B. (I'll try to explain this as best I can), using the hand of the wrist that is being grabbed, quickly make it into a 'C' like shape (with the fingers together and the thumb apart). Then proceed to push,scoop up under the wrist OF YOUR ATTACKER. They can be ALOT stronger than you and yet by using this you should be able to break out very easily. There are MANY other methods that work for your scenerio (certainly ones that work better than the one I learned), but that's all I can give you for now.

A hard to find and very technical book, but one of the best on the history of Chinese martial arts: The Spring and Autumn of Chinese martial Arts -5000 years- by professor Kang Gewu

You have to be carfeful when dealing with kids... a child is probally there mosty just for fun/ on behalf of their parents, and you shouldn't give them too hard of a time. Having said that, if a kid is acting up, I personally see no reason why you can't offer the option of doing push-ups etc. or a refund and a walk out the door. Your place your call.