Shorinryu Sensei

I saw some comments like this on another thread, and thought it might be an interesting discussion. Have you ever taken an empty hand kata, such as the Pinan's, Nahachi's, Passai, etc and tried to do them with a weapon? I have, and it's really quite an experience! I've done them with the bo, jo, sai, kama, tongfa, niton bo and *shudder* nunchaku. The only problem I ever had was on pinan yandan once, using kama..on the hammerfirst to the side with the front snap kick, I managed to stab the point of the kama into the ball of my right foot..about 15 minutes before my class started! I bled like a stuck pig! ARGH! Talk about embarassing when the students started coming in, and of course..had to ask how I did that!

You're getting some good advise from these people, and I agree with them on this issue. In my dojo, size isn't an issue when I have people spar. whether you are a 5' tall, 100lb woman (no offense meant ladies) or like me, 6'6", 240lbs..EVERYBODY SPARS EVERYBODY. Period! On the street, are you going to have weight classes? "Sorry buddy, I can't fight you..you're to big for me! So go ahead and rape me if you want, I won't resist!" HA! Right! Karate is a HUGE equalizer.

OK, I'd better get in here and give my 2 cents worth. This is a rather common joke within the Shorinryu Matsumura Seito (Orthodox) community, of which I am a 28+ year member. Dillman claimed origionally that he approached O Sensei Hohan Soken about teaching him the "secrets" of tuitte and pressure points from his sytem (BTW, there are no secrets, just things you haven't learned yet!). According to Dillman, O Sensei Soken apparently, DURING JUST ONE WEEKEND, taught Dillman all of his "secrets". I don't care who you are, you're not going to learn, retain and be able to perform HALF of these techniques in a weekend of training! Now, since I had never met O Sensei before his death in 1983, but I know, and have studied under a number of people that have trained directly with him....every one of them says that if you knew O Sensei and how he thought and taught, you would know that NO MAN ON EARTH could walk into O Sensei's dojo and ask for this information, and actually expect to get it. Whether it was Dillman, Norris, Wallace, Segal, etc. He just didn't do that sort of thing! Sure, if you took classes from O Sensei for many years, you'd learn all of those neat little tricks with the nerves. Several people in this country, including Ken Penland, Ron Lindsey and Greg Ohl, just to name a few, are quite well versed in these techniques, because they lived on Okinawa for many years and studied directly from O Sensei and others under O Sensei. I don't classify myself in with these people...yet! Maybe someday I will, but certainly, not now. OK, that's my 2 cents on the subject...anybody want change back?

Hmmmm...I don't know. I think I'd like to see it on the newspapers actual website before I'd start applauding the guym, or believing the story. Seems pretty foolish to me to endanger not only yourself, but others by trying that. For "a lot of money"? Hell, like I tell my students, what is the MOST amount of money you've ever had in your wallet/purse at any given time? A few hundred? Maybe a couple of thousand? Is that worth your life??? Oh sure, if the guy was actually starting to shoot people..what have you got to lose? I'd do something too. One of my own personal experiences similar to this. Years ago, 1977 I think, when I was a brown belt, I walked into my bank and there was a guy with a .22 rifle waving it around and ranting. I knew this guy pretty well (friend of my fathers) and he had a lot of mental/emotional issues after his divorce. He was not trying to rob the bank, and I never did figure out what he wanted..but he was just ranting and pacing around the floor. He wasn't pointing the rifle at people, just sort of waving it around randomly. I noticed that the rifle had an empty hole where the magazine goes in the bottom of the stock, so all he could have had in the fifle was one shot. I called him by name, told him I was Earl's son..remember me? He did, and lowered the gun to point at the floor. I stuck my hand out to shake his..when he put his arm forward, I brushed it aside and very esily just took the rifle out of his other hand. His finger was not on the trigger, but rather around the stock. Cops came right in after that..and they took the man to the hospital. I got my name and pic in the paper, and I made no mention of martial arts. There was no bravery involved in this, nor bravado. I knew the guy, his gun wasn't loaded (it appeared) and they confirmed it afterwards, and he didn't have his finger on the trigger. Hell, the safety was even on! lol Was I nervous/scared? Hell yes, and if he'd have been pointing it at people (me), I wouldn't have done a damn thing. But I knew this guy, he's always been nice to me, and it was a simple thing to get the rifle from him safely. Since this was back around 1977 or so, so there isn't going to be any confirmation via the net on the website..sorry. Believe it or not I guess.

The one tournament I held, we had the best response if we had a phamphlet to had to all participants when they paid to enter the tournament with the sponsers ad (larger the ad, the more they have to pay). Best bets are restaurants and motel/hotels. Sporting goods stores also should be good, and health clubs. Just knock on the door, ask to speak to manager/owner. RExplain what you are doing and expected turnout of competitors and spectators (I've never been to a tourney yet that had many spectators other than the participants and families). I'd over-inflate that realistic figure somewhat though. If you need time/score keepers..hit up parents of students, and also might want to try another local martial arts club. Looks like you're doing TKD? Ask the local judo club if you have one, but be prepared to have them ask you when they have a tournament..only fair, right?

No. Nobody's shooting at each other at stop lights around here..not even an occasional road rage incident! lol All I do personally in regards to road rage is flip the occassional tourist and idiot off that pulls in front of my 3/4 ton 4x4 when I'm doing 75 mph down the highway and he pulls in front of me from a side road. GAWD, that makes me SOOOOOOOO MAD!!! Anyway, I guess I just have a hard time understanding why people would be so paranoid that htey feel they can't leafve their homes without being armed for combat. Do you think this has anything to do with movies and TV perhaps? We see all this crap all day about murders, kidnapings, etc, that people feel that this is real life?

I agree that IF you're going to carry a weapon, you should have the training in it's proper usage and tactics for that usage. As I said, living where I do, despite ythe fact that nearly every VEHICLE is armed, as is nearly every household, I would guess the average Joe blow isn't walking around with a firearm, or anything bigger than a pocket knife on his person. I feel that in large cities, if EVERYBODY is so paranoid about being mugged running to the store for a quart of milk, then I think the needs to put these cities under martial law, because they're getting just to damn fanatical and paranoid, and this paranoia just fees upon itself so people say "Well, if he has a gun, so will I."..and goes on and on. What's next? Everybody eventually start buying Army surplus TANKS? It's no wonder we see more and more people from the East or West coasts coming up here to live. They bring with them "superior than thou" attitudes, raise our property taxes, take our jobs, etc..but I sure can't blame them for wanting to get out of the cities. It's just to bad that they come here! lol Granted, the majority of martial artists are recreational MA's, and just do it for the fun of it. Others train for the sport aspects, which aren't ALL bad for self-defense, but not as good as actually self-defense oriented arts. And yes, some martial arts were developed for war, but the empty handed arts (ie: karate, kung fu, TKD, etc) were developed for self-protection, not for war per se.

I use kumite also for testing, but again, that's a "every class" observation that I make, not just during the test itself. I also look at "Are they doing their warm up exercises hard?" Are they in class most of the time, or if absent, why? Dinner and a movie aren't good excuses..unless it's a birthday/anniversary or something important. Skipping class to go to a concert isn't a good excuse, but homework is. Unfortuantely, that's not easy to verify, but I had one young man years ago that called and said he can't make it to the class because of a big test the next day. One of my other students saw him going into a movie theatre as he drove by on his way top my house for class. I asked the young man about how he did on his test during the next class. He said he got an "A"! lol Well, I said "You get an "F" for my class, because you were seen going to a movie that night." He had no argument for me. Attendance and effort are critical in my opinion in regards to t.esting. I don't care how quick you pick up on things, if you're absent a lot, or not giving me 100% for a 2 hour class, then you're not getting a belt. Simple, and all of my students are aware of this.

I've been teaching since 1978 and don't use a points system for belt tests. Basically what I do is this. I tell the students that they are being tested literally EVERY CLASS..and this is true! They are judged every class on attendance, effort/spirit, attention and attitude. Along with whatever techniques are required for that belt of course. When the student is where I want him/her to be for a specific belt level, I will tell them that the next class they are to be tested. This could be in 2 days, or next week. (crunch time!) At this point, they have basically already passed the test, and the formal testing process is a formality. HOWEVER, if they fail to do what is required of them during the test, they can still fail it. An example would be that they can't perform the kata, which they should already know or I wouldn't be testing them. If this happens, I will offer words of encouragement, give them a quick shoulder massage maybe, and let them try again. I chalk it up to testing nerves. Our classes aren't the typical militaristic type where students have to yell "YES SIR!!!" to my every word. I dislike that sort of dojo. We're much more relaxed, speak on a first name basis, students can laugh at me, because I sure laugh at them when they screw up! lol Getting side tracked here. Sorry. Points...yes, ask the association for specific guidlines as to what is worth how much. I would think that should be info you would get prior to a test anyway. Good luck, and keep training!

Well, I was only wore a white belt for about an hour, because I bought my first new gi from my sensei at the begining of the class where I was testing for my yellow belt. I found the perfect solution to past colored belts that you don't need any more. Just loan them to fellow students that just tested and don't have that new belt yet. I've NEVER gotten one back from them yet! OK, as for displaying them. I see no problem displaying them on the dojo wall for students to look at and understand the progression of colors. I have my origional Shodan black belt (rather tacky and worn out) from 1978 on the wall wrapped arpund the fame that contains my certificate signed by the head of the system. I worked damn hard for that belt and take GREAT pride in the fact that the head of the system (Sensei Yuichi Kuda) was the man that tested me for it. I have no trophies for tournament participation, nor pictures of Bruce Lee or "numchuck" kata posters on the walls, but there are some class pictures displayed and my kobudo weapons and bogu (full contact fighting)gear.

Sorry I came on to this thread a bit late, but it looks like you've been doing quite well. One thing I would like to mention is that you are correct by saying that many old karate masters during WWII were killed either in their service to the Japanese war machine, or as innocent civilians that were bombed on Okinawa. Very sad, and a great loss. One master that escaped this and was untouched basically by the war, was Hohan Soken of Shorinryu Matsumurat Seito (Orthodox). Sensei Soken left Okinawa in 1924 and moved to Agentina to work as a photographer/dry cleaner, and didn't return to Okinawa until 1953. Soken Sensei died in 1983. Soken Sensei actively taught old style Shorinryu classes in his dojo until just a few years before his death at the age of 94.

Interesting how I got started in karate actually. Being 6'6" tall, and at that time, around 220lbs (now 240 *sigh*) I rarely had to worry about self-defense. I was 22 years old and fresh out of the Army. I called a bud of mine to see if he wanted to go drink some beer and chase women, but he declined and said he had a karate class to go to. I asked if I could come and watch, and he said "Sure." When we got to the sensei's home, I found the small class of about 8 students was in the living room of his duplex apartment. The sensei, a 6'2" barrel chested cowboy, told me to take my shoes off and get in line. I told him I just came to watch my fruiend, and he said "If you're interested enough to watch, you're interested enough to try it!" So, off came my shoes, and I had a blast my first class! 2 months later my friend quit the class, and I've been still going ever since! This coming January will be 29 years, and I still don't know close to what I want to know..but I'm trying!

It's not the highest kata I ptractice, but I've always enjoyed the movements of Pinan yandan (4). Just something about the way it flows and moves I guess.

hmmmm..get me the guys address if you can. I need somebody to come up here and make me a whole stack of kindling for my fireplace. Winter's coming ya know! As for how many boards I have personally broken? Well, in the nearly 29 years I've been involved in the MA's, I have never broken so much as one single board! Know why? I've never been attacked by a board yet! Never know, maybe today will be the day! Just a quick explanation, in all seriousness. We don't believe in board breaking, other than it is for show, and proves nothing. It's OK if you do though, just not our thing. The only time I've ever been impressed by a board break demo at a tournament I was judging, was a guy by the name of Gus Fandanola (sp?) that was a Hung Gar practioner. He did a one FINGER (index) break of a 12x12x1/2" board. I was VERY impressed by that! But you know what Gus said to me after he got his first place trophie? He said..."If you ever hear of me trying to do that again, slap some sense into me will ya!" He badly sprained/jammed that finger and you should have seen how big it swelled up to by the end of the tournament!

OK Sens55, I'll give you that. Since I don't live in a large city (no such thing in this entire state actually), I'll give you the fact that I don't totally understand the mind set of gang bangers, or other than what the movies portray (and who believes most of that crap anyway?) as being the situation in those areas. I lived in Houston, Tx for 6 months a few years ago, and found myself in a few "interesting" neighborhoods a couple of times, but never had any problems. But then again, I don't know if Houston has the problems of say NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami or others. I feel that if you carry a weapon, ESPECIALLY a gun, then you are more prone to using it..when possibly the situation doesn't warrant it. I guess I'll just stay up here in Montana, where all we have to worry about is crazy Californians, grizzly, mountain lions and the occasional Earth First tree hugger idiots.

*whew*..I made it through to the last page wthout quite having to get my neck high, * protective suit on! Close though...REAL CLOSE! OK, as to the subject of the thread. Yes, I've had to use my MA training on 5 different occasions. More, if you count talking my way out of a situation. I won't bore you with details, but all of the 5 situations were started by the other individuals at first verbally, then to the physical plane..either by throwing a punch, or by touching me (poking my chest or grabbing me). Thus far, I've been lucky and not had anyone land a blow to me. Why have I been in that many fights? Easy. I'm 6'6" tall, weigh around 240lbs. I like to dance (country or R&R), and the only place you can do that around here is in a bar. Bars have alcohol, and naturally..drunks! Drunks (sometimes) like to pick fights, and in the case of cowboys..add alcohol, and the first person they look for is the biggest guy in the place..usually me! I have been involved in my MA for longer than most of the people posting on this thread I suspect. I am 50 years old and have been a student/instructor of this system since 1975 (you can do the math on how long that has been). This gives me, I think, a little better than average viewpoint on fighting, self-defense and reality situations. One observation if I may from reading the last 9 pages is this. There are two subjects that will bring out the * in most males of the species. That is fighting, and the other is SEX! An example of fighting is what I'm seeing on this thread today, and sex..heck, just read a copy of Penthouse Forum if you want to see fantasys in print. I would cry * with the majority of what I have read on these 9 pages today about fights you say you have been involved in, just because of the situation they have described as being rediculous (not mentioning ANY names here). People, martial arts at intended, and your instructors SHOULD be stressing this, for self-defense purposes. Not to batter some jerk for hitting on your girlfriend. Not for kicking the crap out of some idiot that stole your basketball. Not to make you feel more like a man and to prove who's the tougher guy on the street! It's top save your butt, and protect your love ones from harm!!! Oh sure, feel free to protect total strangers also..I've done that a bunch of times. I agree with Bart on the weapons thing. Sure, carry a pocket knife. I usually do because I find I often have to cut something, trim a cuticle or clean my nails, etc. But to carry multiple knives..or a gun for protection? Get a life! You're watching WAY to many movies there people! Where I live, literally every truck or car has a rifle (.22 cal to hunting calibres) or shotgun, or a pistol in it. Why? Because we HUNT up here, and I personally have had to use my .357 twice to dispatch a deer that wandered in front of my truck at night, and rather than see it suffer and die slowly, I killed it on the roadside. Not legal I know, but the responding police never took my weapon, nor gave me any problems because of it. Would I use it in self-defense? Of course! But in my experience with seeing probably 100 +/- REAL fights from junior high school, to bar/street fights, I have only seen a couple where the person pulled a knife on someone..and after that person was subdued by a whole bunch of UNINVOLVED spectators, he WENT TO JAIL! OK..I've vented and said my piece. It just really pisses me off to see a bunch of kids saying they carry guns/knives for self-protection. You're just asking to spend time in jail if you even pull it out, let alone use it.

"Which is superior? Striking with the hands or striking with the feet?" Like others have already stated, it depends on ythe situation, but there are general rules that apply. Hands are faster than kicks..period! You can throw 2-4 hand techniques for every foot technique generally. Also, they are more versatile and can do more things than feet can. However, feet have more potential striking/knockdown power. Knocking a person out with one punch, despite claims to the contrary, isn't real easy to do, unless you're Mike Tyson! lol Whereas a good kick to the torso or head (We never head kick in this system) can take the person out of the fight immediately. I hope that helps?

All of the above are correct, but I'd like to add that another reason to keep the elbow "in" is to protect it from a counter technique to it while your arm is extended at the end of the punch. What? You mean a punch doesn't always land at its target? Yep, afraid so!

GIVE THIS MAN A CIGAR!!! He's absolutly correct! Chambering the punch (same with blocks) is to learn proper technique and teach your muscles how to move. obviously, you would not chamgber a punch or block in a real fight.

Unfortunately, pain is something that is a part of the martial arts. There are ways of dealing with it, and everybody has different tolerances for the amount of pain that they can tolerate. We do body toughing techniques in our class about once/week. Koto Ate (not sure of the speling) drills. 1. Toughing forearms: With your partner, both right foot forward in a front stance, the outside of your feet touching the others. Both do an outside block using either the single, or double bone blocks. Strike each others forearms, then both immediately do a low block, again striking each others forearms. Repeat at least 20 times, or as much as you want. You can vary the amount of contact depending on what you can handle. You do yourself NO GOOD if you always tap each other lightly so it doesn't hurt. After you finish one side, do the other side by reversing the feet. 2. Toughing Outside of Leg/thigh: Face your partner, both in same leg forward front stance. Take alternate turns doing roundhouse kick to ourside of thigh, above the knee. Be careful, and DO NOT flinch away from the oncoming kick, as you can hurt your knee that way. Have your partner kick as hard as you can stand. If you can take more, tell them. Or less. Communication people. Also, make sure you partners foot is on the ground and he is solid before taking your turn to kick him/her. 3. Toughing Inside of Leg/Thigh: First of all, you have to have faith in the accuracy of your partners kicks. You'll see what I mean when you try this. Both face each other in front stance, but opposite legs forward (one left, one right forward). Same as #2, roundhouse kick ABOVE THE KNEE, but below the groin (can we say..got cups? lol). You'll find quickly that the inside of the thigh is MUCH more sensative than the outside is. Again, do not flich the leg as the kick makes contact. 4. Toughing the back of the shoulder blades. Face each other, left feet forward. Put your left hand on top of your head (to expose the shoulder blade) and take turns kicking each other to the shouklder blade using a roundhouse kick. Gets you used to taking a hard smack to the back area. 5. Toughing the stomach area: One person get in a good Horse or straddle stance so that you are at a 90 degree angle to your partner (he's to your right or left). Turn your obi (belt) to the side so that the knot is on the side instead of the front, then put you hands behind your back. Tighten (breath out at impact) your stomach muscles and allow your partner to roundhouse kick to your stomach. Again, if you can take a harder hit..tell them. If it's to hard, also tell them..but take as much as you can handle. 6. Toughing the shins: You can do like the old Okinawans used to do, and beat your shins against tree trunks until they bleed, or do what I do, and it works GREAT! Take a wooden rolling pin, or Coke bottle (Pepsi sucks! lol), and roll it up and down your shins. Again, as hard as you can stand. When you get to a point where it doesn't bother you to roll it hard on your shin, then start TAPPING it against your shin instead. Harder and harder as your shins get used to it. Eventually, you'll be able to use your shins as effective leg blockers..matching your shins against your opponents. And when they strike and he starts screaming in pain...you'll be standing there smiling, because it hardly hurt you at all! It's worked for me for quite a few years. There isn't any worry about developing arthritus or any other damage from extended practice at these drills. Good luck. You find that as you do these exercises, you'll be able to take more and more, with less pain and discomfort.

Not a "mate" per se, but I dated a gal quite a few years ago for about 4-5 months that was a 1st Dan in AKKA TKD. I was a 2nd Dan in Shorinryu. Our classes were on the same nights and she would come over to my house (my dojo was out back) and she would show me what she had learned that night in class. Not to bad mouth TKD, but what she was learning was just plain STUPID! I would spend 5-15 minutes showing her why what she had learned wouldn't work, or would leave herself so exposed and vulnerable to a counter attack, that to try to attempt these techniques was foolishness. Most of the stuff we worked on was against grabs, weapons, high kicks and jumping/flying kicks. As we worked on these techniques, you could see her brain making the connections. I also would work on her sparring techniques, and after 2 months, she was repeatedly kicking her sensei's butt, along with all of the other senior students on a regular basis during sparring. All I showed her was lateral body movement, or as we call it..change of body, or body shifting. As her attacker threw his/her technique at her, she would move to the side and launch a conter attack at the same time. She told me that her instructor, at first, praised her for scoring on her, but was getting increasingly frustrated...and yes, angry..that a lower student (I think he was a 4th Dan) was rather easily defeating his attacks EFFECTIVELY! For me, it made me smile when she told me this. Why didn't she quit her class and join mine? Because she had a black belt already, and didn't want to start over. Our breakup didn't have anything to do with our different martial arts. I had to move out of the area. Bummer too, as she was a real sweetheart.

I bought one of those striking pads back in the '80's, and it lasted MAYBE one hour and broke! I returned it to Century Martial Arts for replacement, and was informed that they are going to be discontinuing that item because they were finding that ALL of them were being returned. They just wouldn't hold up for long I guess. Kind of a nice item for playing around in the dojo...until it broke! lol

Welcome TicN9neZ8. I'm a newbie myself and will be giving my introduction on this board shortly. Just a comment about this, since you're new to the arts. Many programs like you are describing will tell you taht you have the potential to be GREAT in their art. After just two weeks of watching you, they can't know taht yet. Realistically, just about EVERYBODY has that ability. Let me guess. To get into the Masters Club, or the Leadership program, you have to pay a bigger chunk of money..probably up front. Right? Be careful. Soundslike a ripoff to me.

BRAVO G95Champ! You hit the nail on the head with your explanation PERFECTLY early at the top of the forum! I explain the kiai this way. 1. Startles an opponent briefly to give you a possible advantage. 2. Provides controlled release of energy during the execution of a technique. 3. Tenses your body to receive a blow from an opponent. Anyway, this is my first post on this site..looking forward to being a hopefully good addition to it.