bushido_man96

Thanks, Bob. I think the instructor wanted it to have an intro feel, so I wasn't going to see anything really advanced. I realized stepping onto that mat that my TKD career itself is probably only a few years younger than most of the students that were there. I missed a chance to return to a follow-up class because I got sick this weekend. Maybe in the future I will get to see something more. He did say something that struck me odd at the end of class...he mentioned if I wanted to join, I'd have to like take a ride with him and talk, and talk with the grandmaster or something to that affect....? Not sure, but I just let it lie.

This is a well written article, Bob. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. There will likely not be agreement on this topic, ever. I think the problem arises in the drawing of hard and fast lines for one or the other. That makes it easy, though, either you qualify or you don't! What needs to happen is informed discussion over each candidate, in my opinion.

Congrats!

On Oct. 3, I attended a "bring a buddy" trial class for a Martial Art called 3-in-1. The instructor referred to is as a Jewish Martial Arts system combining TKD, Hapkido, and Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. I was invited by a co-worker, so I accepted, because I always like to check out something new, and just train. We started with quite a bit of calisthenics, including jogging, some fighting stance footwork and punching, breathing, and stretching. After the stretching, we did some kicking. We did front snap kicks, using the ball of the foot and the instep. Next we did an ax kick that used a little different hip movement than I'm used to, and then we did round kicks. The round kicks, they chambered like front kicks, and then rotated the hip over with a snap upon extension, and at a 45 degree angle. I don't mind kicking this way, but its not my preferred way of doing it. From there, we did some punching work from horse stance, which was nothing new for me. After kicking, we did some breakfalls and rolling. From there, we did some Hapkido, working on a 3-finger lock as a defense against a push from the front, locking 3 fingers and pressuring down to take them to their knees, and then reversing the pressure to bring them up into an escort. Next was a thumb lock that ended like a kote-gashi/wrist turning takedown. All in all, I had fun at the class. I would have preferred less time exercising, and more time doing technique, but that's just my preference. It appears that the instructor is of the Jewish religion, and takes from the basic tenants of the religion as far as his moral and ethical code for his style. That's just a guess on my part, and I would have to talk to him more at length about it to be sure. One thing I wasn't too game on was that he wanted me to wear my regular TKD uniform and belt, and I was lined up at the front of the class. I would have preferred training in do-bok pants and T-shirt, and lining up at the back; its his class, and I was just there to learn. But he was very respectful about it, even though I preferred him call me by my first name, as opposed to a title. But, I imagine that I what I will face if I go back and train. Anywho, there's my recent new MA experience. I'd love to discuss it with you all!

ps1, jaypo, and AdamKralic have all made very good statements, and I don't think I could add more to it. Very well put! As mentioned, it depends on what you are seeking in your Martial Arts training. Lots of people could care less if they ever fight or not. And on the other hand, there are plenty of fighters out there that could beat a Martial Artist, but aren't Martial Artists themselves. Fighting and self-defense is part of it. But not all of it.

I enjoyed watching this. He has some interesting views on some of the techniques there. I really liked the circular motion in the single had block he did, and the slower demo of it. Thanks for sharing this.

I'm not sure on the Kyokushin styles, but Thai kickers will rise up on the ball of the base leg to drive the kick around. In most "traditional" styles that I watch, kickers tend to keep their base foot flatter on the ground, more in contact with the floor. That's just one subtle difference I've noticed, at least in the way I kick usually. There could be some differences in the way the base foot pivots, and how the hip drives the kick, as well, but someone with more experience in them than me will have to put forth an answer there.

I agree. Its really tough to find a happy medium. Competing helps build up certain skills that can translate to helpful self-defense, but there have to be rule sets in place for safety. Likewise, its important to realize the deficiencies in the rule set and do what one can to alter the training from time to time to work on them for self-defense purposes.

Its not that you will be able to "take on anyone after 4 hours of training." I trained for 5 days, 8 hours a day. The goal isn't to take anyone on. The goal is to provide some tools to individuals in the form of certain concepts to make them easy to pick up, so that people that need to use them, but don't have all the time to train that others might, can learn to do so.I would also caution that "becoming combat effective in the least amount of time possible" equals being done learning and training sooner. The guy I trained with is a "career" Krav Maga guy; he believes in it, and studies it, a lot. He was also a Muay Thai fighter in Thailand quite a while back, so he's a guy who knows some stuff and has seen some stuff. Anyone who sticks with it is going to gain as much from it as from any traditional style.

I think that some of the blocking and striking concepts of Kung Fu would be very beneficial for any stylist to learn. I think the methodology of each might be different enough that you could keep them separate.

I think it comes down to preference. I think what really adds to a good side thrust kick is use of the hips rotating over and adding some drive to the kick. When we do spin side kicks, we do them kind of in the Olympic style, where we buzz the heel of our kicking leg tight by the knee of the base leg. This would really be using more of the ham and glutes, I think, to drive the kick. Now, with that said, you really can't isolate the leg muscles too much when doing a side kick. The quads are going to be involved, because the whole leg gets involved, either in pushing the leg out, or in supporting the leg in the air to do the kick.

Welcome back to KF!

Welcome aboard! Glad to have you here!

how can something slower and lighter hit harder? a rear cross uses most of your body weight, and travels really fast, a donkey kick uses very little body weight and travels at a slower speed, how can the donkey kick do more damage in some cases and about the same in other cases? Because the force of the impact isn't only supplied by you, it is also supplied by the person being struck. Typically back kicks are only landed or effective against someone who is moving towards you. They themselves are supplying lots of mass and velocity. Of course, any strike will be more effective when the opponent is moving into it, but it is pretty much the only way to hurt someone with a back kick, short of using a spin, or a specific and specialized kind of switch. This is easily demonstrated by back kicking a stationary heavy bag, then back kicking it again as it swings in to meet your kick. The kick has significantly more impact when the bag (our hapless opponent) swings into it. I would also like to point out that it is the rapid acceleration of tissue caused by the force that hurts people, and I think you will get a better grip on this if you learn about acceleration and vectors in general. Very nicely put. When it comes to these techniques, I think its also important to think about how the power is generated. The power linkage of a cross starts at the ground, and goes up through the leg to the body, and out the arm and fist. With a hook punch, you get some of the same factors, but you add in the added affect of rotating the striking tool around the hips. I imagine this changes things, too.

Krav Maga does award black belts. At least Krav Maga Worldwide does. Maybe some of the offshoots don't, but they do provide rank. The police instructor/defensive tactics courses though, do not. It sounds like you did a good job of de-escalating the situation there. Hopefully, these fellows will come to understand each other in the future.

Other than some marked clothing, I don't usually pick up on it. I hear that some people can see it in others, but I don't always pick up on it.

Early on in my career, I found that it was something I wanted to do for the long haul. So far, so good!

9/17/2014 DT Club: 1:00 - 3:00 pm. After a warmup of shrimping, pummeling, and some punch defense drills, we worked on a continuation of the punch block defenses, where a bad guy grabs the leg the good guy is trying to kick and defend with, swings it out, and the bad guy crashes into side mount. Bottom guy drills getting back to guard from under the side mount position. From there, we worked the elevator sweep to an eye-peck from mount (part of the women's self-defense aspect) to standing and retreating. After that, we worked armbar from mount, and the Americana some. Focused on making sure the guy on bottom had good hip position. We had open rolling towards the end, and I rolled with an NCAA Wrestler twice. Guy smoked me; I tapped to a triangle choke as I was trying to pass his guard (any help here would be appreciated), and once to an armbar. I started each time in his guard. But it was fun! TKD Kicking Class: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. All kicking on the TKD Powerline today. Front leg round kick, mid section: 20 (10 each leg) Back leg round kick, mid section: 20 Front leg skipping round kick, mid section: 20 Back leg side-step round kick, mid section: 20 Front leg round kick, hi section: 20 Back leg round kick, hi section: 20 Front leg skipping round kick, hi section: 20 Front leg side kick: 20 Back leg side kick: 20 Step spin side kick: 20 Switch-away spin side kick: 20 Repeating jump spin side kicks: 20 Front leg repeat round kicks: 40 (20 each leg) Back leg repeat round kicks: 40 Front leg skipping repeat round kicks: 40 Front leg double "Olympic" round kicks, mid section: 40 Total of 380 kicks. Stretch.

I think that if you are looking to do something similar to Kyokushin, then Shotokan would be right up your alley. The contact levels won't be the same, but much of the technique and forms should be similar. But, be sure to check out all your options before making a decision.

If you are truly concerned about how your instructor feels about this, then talk to him about it, first. Tell him that you just want to get together with others and learn, and that's your plan. See what he says. Seeing as you are basically just doing an open sparring session, it likely won't be a big deal.

I agree with yamesu. I think you probably be just fine. Keep up with your solo practice of your Shorin Ryu, and you should be fine. It sounds like you have a plan, which is the most important thing.

Just wondering what others think of this. I actually see some validity in it...if one is training at school X where a technique is done a certain way and at school Y where it is done differently, then the student needs to adapt the technique to each school. This is why I think that training at more than one school in the same style would be confusing...but if someone can handle it and wants to train at more than one school then I don't see a problem with it. I have some questions about how this would work. Are you referring to the way a technique might be done, like a round kick? If doing forms, then I can understand an instructor wanting to see the techniques done the way he taught them. But for sparring, I say adaptation is king, and if the way you do a round kick is different, but works better for you in sparring, and still falls into the rule set, then by all means, go with it. Can you elaborate a bit more on this, or am I hitting the nail on the head here?

Reference the bold type in your statement above, I disagree here. That exact reason is a good reason to seek instruction under a different teacher. Perhaps you have a teacher that excels in teaching the technical aspect of the style. This is a great thing, and you will develop good technique from it, which will go a long way in serving you. But what if there is another instructor in the same style who excels in teaching the self-defense aspect of the Martial Arts? Then wouldn't it be worth taking some classes from that individual if you are seeking solid self-defense?

Yes, Bob, I do recall. Some of our one-steps cover these kinds of movements, and we try to focus on this kind of movement in DT so that we can get to a more advantageous position to detain someone. In grappling, we have to be very careful about when we make space, so that it doesn't get taken advantage of.Very good discussion, and a nice article!

9/8/2014 DT Club: 1:30 - 3:00 pm. Worked on self-defense curriculum, then went into some grappling work. The coach showed us a far-side armbar from side mount. Very different for me. It will take some time to get that one down. We also worked on some armbars from the guard. TKD Class: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. Taught class tonight, focusing on the basics, forms, one-steps, and sparring. 9/15/2014 DT Club: 1:30 - 3:00 pm. Warmed up, then went into the 4 punch block defenses, starting from the closed guard, then to open guard, then with the feet on the hips. Towards the end of the session, some of the students wanted to do some open rolling, so there were several matches that took place. Good session. TKD Class: 6:00 - 7:00 pm. Taught. Testing is coming around the corner, so we did basics, forms, some forms review, and one-steps.