juey palancu

BTW, apologies for all the typos in my last post...

The Boxing/muay-thai "rule" is just a myth based on historical factors...

Poise, what you're looking for is called MMA

when i said "memorize" i meant more like "internalize"

Good points. However, i disagree about the statements about kata training being useless for actual fhgitng, etc. Kata helps memorize combinations, develop strength of purpose, refine technique. THere is no way to really tell if guys like Machida use a lot of kata training or not. Kata-only or self-defense is of course incomplete, but thats nothing masters like Funakoshi, Oyama, Nishiyama, Itosu, or others havent already said. so, I do agree, of course, that if you want to fight you have to train to fight, a lot! But that is standard practice in high-level Traditional Karate. Before a tournament, for example, (light or full contact), one should spends a LOT of time training footwork, timing, etc. etc. and doing actual sparring. This is not what is done in the majority of dojos you fund, because they are geared towards people who dont fight for a living. But the techniques are there, the methods are there, etc. etc. I'm just saying that some TMA's, like good shotokan, are an excellent base for fighting in MMA styles, etc and we will see more and more of that....

Why dont you let us know how it goes?

I do agree with bushido, though, that cross-training and fight preparation are essential, however that doesnt detract from doing a traditional art. For example, I do karate and judo. On the feet, I'm a karateka, on the ground, I'm a judoka. Somewhere in the clinch, I make the transition.

Traditional Karate has bag drills, makiwara drills, moving target drills, applications sessions, shadow fighting, strenghtening sessions, footwork drills, timing drills, distance drills, combinations, cardio, etc. etc. etc. The tools are there, and many people use them often, very well and very effectively. GSP did kyokushin karate, I believe.

This is true, but look at the stats. How many people with a shotokan background have been successful in ufc? And how many people with a MT/boxing background have be successful? If i was choosing a style based on its effectivness in events like ufc, one guy being good at shotokan wouldnt be enough to make me consider training in it. For me, a parellel quesiton is: How many guys in MT, etc. want to become professionals as opposed to traditional karate practicioners? For me, based on many years experience with competitive boxing, kickboxing, and traditional karate, the reason we have so far seen many more MT and kickboxers is not related to effectiveness but rather to philosophy about and history of involvement in professional sports. My prediction is, that as the money to be made and exposure to MMA becomes more widespread, more serious traditional karate practicioners will enter and be successful in MMA (standing part at least) and the MT/boxing myth will be discredited...

All athletes good enough to be pros are precisely that...exceptions...no matter if you do MT, boxing, whatever....

I have to say I am thrilled to hear these news. Olympics would have killed karate's essence!

I see A LOT of advanced shotokan kumite in Machida's standing game. Actually, that is what he does. You are probably judgind based on seeing a few white belt classes (or McDojo advanced belt classes or torunaments). How Machida does it is how its supposed to look when it's good... look for itkf kumite videos and you'll see...

yes, i got the video at UFC.com video on demand it was a good fight!

for all those shotokan doubters out there... got Lyoto Machida's performance in UFC 67? He dominated a good opponent using (and please accept this, its so obvious) largely traditional (not McDojo) shotokan stances, fluidity, techniques, combinations, etc. for striking (plus some pretty good grappling). His striking was very similar to what he used to do in karate tournaments (I personally saw him in a few back in the day, especially the 2001 ITKF PanAm's) and he took apart, owned his poor UFC opponent Sam Hoger. Hoger gave the excellent contender Rashad Evans hell in his previous fight, just to put in perspective. As more and more serious traditional karateka (who cross-train of course) go into MMA, we'll se similar stories, you all can quote me.

Agreed, it's a very good rule

I had similar trouble with that technique in Kanku-dai back when I learned it, until my sensei pointed out that i have to land with squared hips, since it is an 'offensive' block. Case solved. Never lost my balance again there.

Brandon, yes, its true, its all interpretation. All the greats have made karate (or their art) THEIRS, rather than just being content to imitate each other.

I see point, Bushido. In that sense, you are right, its more flashy than mcdojoish. I just (probably because of my own prejudices) tend to equate the two. Still I dont like it! I still dont see the problem with Kanazawa's kata (although there are others I have seen that do slightly more focused kata, like for the late Sensei Worrel from Panama). I think Kanazawa has his own interpretation of power that involves a little extra whip action in most moves that others would do concentrating on focus. It still is VERY powerful! And he has the best oi tzuki i've ever seen, just like Tanaka had the best mae-geri I've ever seen. By the way, of tall the greats I've seen do kata, I like Sensei Nishiyama's katas the BEST! respecfully, Gero

I'm saying that becasue he does a watered-down modified version emphasizing atheleticism over technique it is mcdojoish, yes. But that's just my opinion respectfully, Gero

bushido, What's mcdojoish about it is the flashy, fast sequence of incomplete hand technqiues shown in Valdesi's gankaku video. Doing incomplete technhiques to appear faster than you really are is one of the hallmarks of a mcdojoish performance Killer, You cant deny Kanasawa's kime and execution in those kata videos, can you? The're right there to see!

Oh, the video. I only read the sequences, didnt watch the videos before. I dont consider those proper hooks. One is a short overhand right, while the other is a shovel-hook/uppercut hybrid. My opinion. That said, many bozers have made careers of throwing punches that are non-textbook, so if it knocks the opponent out, they can call it whatever they want for all I care!! I agree with you, though, that position is everything in boxing (and all martial arts for that matter). best, Gero

BEarich, WORD, brother. Very eloquent. Should be posted as a karate forum article. thanks for sharing your thoughts! Gero

I personally didnt like Valdesi's empi, for the same reasons stated above by Jiffy, Killer Miller, etc. I did like his ganakaku, shown in youtube also, very much. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_XQ--WU8ZM Well, it was still a little macdojoish in some flashy sequences of incomplete hand movements but the execution of those side kicks from the crane stance was VERY good. I wish I was that athletic. However, if I was going to do the movements of Gankaku in a fight for my family's life, this is how I would like to do it. Notice the VAST increase in power and focus going from Valdesi to Kanazawa. Call me a traditionalist, if you like, but Kanazawa's kata puts a lot more fear in my heart. also look Kanazawa's empi: WOW that's power.

Since katas have the movements and sequences neatly packaged in a time-tested fashion, simply recording applications separately would be most inefficient. Making just a list would result in an incredibly long list of thing to remember, not to mention that in katas, each movement is related to at least 3-4 movement before and after. The length of the lsit grows exponentially long if you include this. With that said, I think practicing applications, bunkai, etc is MOST important and it is something that has been lost to many sport dojos and Mcdojos. It becomes a completely different, and much more well-rounded, art if you know and practice bunkai. Karate and other arts subject to 'Mcdojoification' should emulate what judokas and JJ people have done, which is keep applications alive by drilling a LOT.

Bushido man, The sequence of events described in that website are akin to squaring up the feet. Many trainers, including the ones I worked wiht would disagree with calling that a 'rear hand hook' since the hand would not be 'rear' anymore. but, really, it is a matter of semantics. best, Gero