juey palancu

Ok, ok....I sholdnt have said 'pure'....'pure' anything doesnt really exist...but very predominantly shotokan, yes. I was just responding to all the messages out-there(and there are many) that say traditional karate doesn't work! Ryoto Machida didn't come out of a McDojo, by the way, his father is a 7th dan master and very respected in traditional shotokan circles... Cm'on with the weight classes, Royce Gracie didnt need them to dominate his opposition a few years ago! BJ, who is the man, and I am huge fan of, by the way, did not make excuses so nobody should make them for him! What' the excuse for Franklin (who is dominating UFC lately) then? good discussion, keep it going! Gero

Hi, I think beginner's question is a fair one. The practicioner DOES make the art, however the teacher and the style do, too. A sensei I met used a saying i really liked: "Practice doesnt make perfect. Practice makes permanent". So one needs to be taught the right stuff in order to be able to perfect it through dedication and willpower. I have been forced to use a Shotokan technique a few years ago to defend myself against multiple oponents in a very stupid neighborhood fight over a parking space that I really tried to avoid, even by surrendering the parking space and when that didnt work just by runnning away, but they were faster than me. These dudes wanted to kick some *. Anyway, my techniques were SO effective that they scared me. My attackers really got badly injured and I got close to going to jail for assault. Thankfully, there were witnesses that I was just defending myself.. Fighting sucks. I never want it to hapen again. I was very happy to have escaped the beating my attackers wanted to administer, though. anyway, my two cents, Gero -- Nidan Traditional Shotokan

Good discussion, So Ryoto has some BJJ, Muay-Thai training, which I knew by the way...so what? HE is a life-long karateka who trained since hw was a kid in his father's dojo. I am a brown belt in Judo but still consider myself primarily a traditional karateka. I have seen 5 of Ryoto's fights and not once I have seen any of his opponents take good advantage of the theoretically vulnerable karate stances...and from his fights it is very obvious that his traditional karate influences most of what he does..... look forward to hearing more! GEro ----- Nidan- Traditional Shotokan

hi all, a post I made to another topic might be of interest to this topic, too. Hey shotokan beginner, Do not let anybody discourage you from inmersing yourself in the study of traditional shotokan. Many people will use UFC, etc. results to say grappling and/or mixed arts are superior, and this is simply not true. In fact, look up a fighter named Ryoto Machida. He is a pure shotokan practicioner who won the International Traditional Karate Federation Pan-american Championships (jiyu kumite, JKA style) in 2001. A very strong karateka, he decided to try his luck at MMA fighting. In his 6-7 fights he is unbeaten, and his wins include knockouts of UFC middleweight champion Rich 'Ace' Franklin (he knocked Franklin out cold) and standout Stephan Bonnar, as well as a decision win over submission artist and Matt Hughes' conqueror, B.J. 'The prodigy' Penn. I've seen his fights, and he fights like a shotokan karateka, out of a senkutzu dachi, etc. So, there you have it, for those who say a traditional karateka cannot make it in mixed martial arts... best! Gero ----------------- Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

Hey shotokan beginner, Do not let anybody discourage you from inmersing yourself in the study of traditional shotokan. Many people will use UFC, etc. results to say grappling and/or mixed arts are superior, and this is simply not true. In fact, look up a fighter named Ryoto Machida. He is a pure shotokan practicioner who won the International Traditional Karate Federation Pan-american Championships (jiyu kumite, JKA style) in 2001. A very strong karateka, he decided to try his luck at MMA fighting. In his 6-7 fights he is unbeaten, and his wins include knockouts of UFC middleweight champion Rich 'Ace' Franklin (he knocked Franklin out cold) and standout Stephan Bonnar, as well as a decision win over submission artist and Matt Hughes' conqueror, B.J. 'The prodigy' Penn. I've seen his fights, and he fights like a shotokan karateka, out of a senkutzu dachi, etc. So, there you have it, for those who say a traditional karateka cannot make it in mixed martial arts... best! Gero ----------------- Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

oops, sorry for typos

okay, most people's feet are curved on the outside, so a straight front foot will look a little curved in from above. If the curve on the outside of the front foot doesnt appear to be going towards your body, then your foot is not pointing straight but outwards. For most people, the foot should be pointing forward in zenkutsu dachi, in my opinion. Why? Because if not your poisiton is thrown out of balance and when you throw that guyaku-zuki you will be left in an unbalanced position to the outside of your leading foot, like if you were a twisting towel. However, each person has to work to find their own there are no su-fire recipes here, and for this they need the assistance of a good instructor and a lot of practice.

Hi, Rotation in yoko geri kekomi? I've done thousands of those and I just dont see where rotation comes into play. Maybe as you rotate to get into position to kick?? In yoko geri keage, yes, there is the large, semicircular pendulum motion, and in maewashi geri, of course, the whole body rotates, but in kekomi its mostly about driving the hip. Well, the body does a pendulum, a short one, but still pendulum and rotation are not the same... Yoko geri kekomi is a very powerful kick, by the way, but it is a little slow.. any thoughts? Gero

something many people dont know... many karate 'blocks' are actually better used as strikes or as joint control techniques. Take an (uchi uke)inside block, for example: the best application is not to try and block a punch with it. Instead, the best application (in my humble opinion) is: opponent initiates attack. You slip the punch by slight side movement to the closed side of you opponent while you grab your opponents' arm with your leading hand. You execute the uchi-uke to your opponents arm by sliding you back arm along your leading arm. There you have it, a joint lock or a joint break depending on your intention and/or the explosiveness of your movement. This is actually much less complicated than it sounds in this explanation. I've used it in real self-defense and it worked beautifully. I had a drunken, bigger surprise attacker under control until people stepped in and broke the fight, which actualy wasnt much of a fight. I took it easy because I was in a party with friends, that is the only reason I didnt break this dude's elbow that night. On the topic of dealing with multiple, rapid succession punches: If your oppponent is 'flurrying' you, you just sidestep and sidestep until the opponent gets winded and stops. Then you go for it like there is no tomorrow. Go ahead and watch an old school, 'slow' Mexican boxer (like Julio Cesar Chavez) to see how they deal with fast, flurrying opponents. A thing of beauty. What you NEVER do is step inside of a flurry. That is like getting into a tornado. Karate is like an onion with many, many layers...the old senseis knew what they were doing when they came up with katas...one can explore a kata forever... the old school boxing trainers know their stuff too (an example of a current 'old school' boxing trainer is Freddie Roach). Gero ------- Amateur Boxing (formerly) Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

If you are 'falling' towards your oponent, you are in trouble, since falling is being out of control. Proper centering and body alignment should always maintained (if one wants to survive;)). 'Blocks' by themselves are never the first line of defense, position and evasive movements (footwork) are. Your footwork should be good enough that the block is just an added insurance (tai zabaki). The covering up wiht the gloves, etc, is good for boxing, but opens one up for kicks, sweeps, and takedowns. As with blocks, it should only be the last line of defense, after footwork and positioning. Standing in the pocket and trading punches is only done for sport (as in boxing, knockdown sparring and MMA). Out in the street, it is a very bad idea, since you dont know if your opponent is armed or if your opponents' friends are right around the corner! dos centavos, Carlos Former Amateur Boxer Nidan, Traditional Shotokan

Hey, I had never seen so much Shotokan-hate until I joined this forum. Man, I dont hate any styles, as long as they dont promote violent behavior. why do people enjoy taking swipes at Shotokan? Is it because it's very popular? Gero ----- Niden Traditional Shotokan

Hey, Goju-ryu stylists and (especially) Kyokushinkai stylists are obsessed with lineage, too. But I agree. Training methods make or break the effectiveness of a martial artist. Coupled with emphasis on technique and strategy. I've seen many full-contact bangers get owned by technically profficient people with far less full-contact experience. I've also seen the opposite. By the way, I saw a video the other day (in google videos, go look for it) of a Kyokushinkai-Tae Kwon Do full contact match, both black belts. The much larger Kyo stylist obviously had a lot of confidence in his body hardening and bang-away training. He left himself open a lot! Which was taken advantage of by the intially-nervous and much smaller TKD stylist, who after overcoming his obvious nervousness landed a crazy flying kick to his oponents face and knocked him out cold! If the guy had any technical soundness he should have been able to evade/block/redirect the flying kick and have an off-balance or floored opponent. Instead he banked on his 'toughness". My grandfather always used to say: 'There are no exercises to grow muscles on the face" Gero ------ Nidan Traditional Shotokan

I experienced an opposite situation. A 2nd degree black belt in Tang Soo Do came to our dojo about 4 years ago, sparred and even our green belts had their way with him. We spar very hard though. I guess its the person, no the art... Oss, Gero

I see your point with traditional with both Judo and Shotokan, but I doubt Gigoro Cano was thinking about Olympics when he developed judo. When I say traditional I mean keeping faithful to traditional principles of chi and body mechanics, as well as development of serenity, strong spirit, etiquette, etc. I think arts lose too many of the 'little things' when they dispense with the 'traditional' part. Yes, Funakoshi was good with throws and avoiding takedowns from the clinch. It's hidden all over the kata and some dojo's (like mine) explore those applications a lot). Many Shotokan dojos (the more 'traditional' ones) practice the throw and clinch applications of Funakoshi katas a lot. Yes, I love kata guruma too and I have used in jiyu kumite, with excellent results! best, Carlos

Maybe those grapplers were pretty bad, they didn't take a good punch, that I know... Seriously now, I took judo for years before, and it is a GREAT art. A traditional art, by the way. Gigoro Cano (Judo's forefather) and Gichin Funakoshi (Shotokan's) were good friends and respected each other's art inmensely. Shotokan, at the advanced levels has many elements such as throws and clinches, that are very similar to judo. For example, tekki shodan's sequence of wave-kicks can be looked upon as blocks or as sweeps much like a ouchigeri judo throw. The kata Kanku-dai has a throw in it (towards the end) which has applications like judo's kataguruma (bodyslam). In general, traditional arts come form the same place and want to arrive at the same place... osu! Gero

Hi, Ok, to be honest, I think that the often-quoted 'rigid-circular', 'hard-soft' division in traditional karate styles is more artificial than a reflection of a true difference between the styles. The complete traditional styles, use ALL of the ways to create force and take advantage of their opponents openings: linear movement, rotation, snap/whip, pushing, lifting, vibrating, etc etc etc in different techniques in their system. I think it is a misrepresentation, for example, to say, 'goju-ryu is circular, while shotokan is linear'. They are both circular AND linear. If anything, the styles are different in the way they teach beginners, and this might be the reason they are perceived as different. Very few people become true experts in more than one art, so they tend to compare 'beginners' perspectives of different arts. If you look at true masters of supposedly 'linear' and 'circular' arts, (for example, Sensei Higaonna, and Sensei Nishiyama) you'll see that they look very similar in their movements, and they should as they come from the same place and want to arrive at the same place. Osu! gero --- Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

giving up dates for training is crazy, man. Dont do it. Remember what mr. Miyagi said about balance in life! gero

J'Mac, Actually, you are right. It IS ashi barai. thanks! Ashi barai, gyaku zuki, ashi barai-uraken, those combinations are useful against styles with poor balance and high centrs of gravity in their stances... Shotokan (practiced well) can be very EFFECTIVE! best, Gero

Well, he was proud of how well I did 'out there', but he noticed my technique was geting sloppy and I was getting cocky since i did so well against other styles...A few kumite rounds wiht my sensei and sempai definitely erased any cockyness that might have accumulated though...i'm not in their league yet! If I really want to go to open tournaments again he'll say ok, it was just he expressing a preference... anyway, stick to traditional arts, you'll be better in the end! osu! gero

sorry for all the ypos. I was writing in haste. Gero

Hi, Msot compelte traditional styles, use linear, rotation, snap/whip, pushing, lifting, vibrating, etc etc etc in differetn techinques in their system. I think it is a misrepresentation, for example, to say, 'goju-ryu is circular, while shotokan is linear'. They are both circular AND linear. If anything, the styles are different in the way they teach begginers, and this mihgt be the reason they are perceived as those. Very few people become true experts in more than one art, so they tend to compare 'begginers' perspectives of different arts'. If you look at true masters of supposedly 'linear' and 'circular' arts, (for example, Sensei Morio Higaonna, and Sensei Nishiyama) you'll see that they look very similar in their movements, and they should as they come from the same place and want to arrive at the same place. It's comvergent evolution. Osu! gero --- Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

Hi, Any of the traditional 'styles' of karate (Shotokan, Shito-ryu, Wado-ryu, shorin-ryu, Goju-ryu/Gojuchi-i, etc.), are time-tested, complete methods of self-defense. Its best if if you find a good teacher and are willing to be an apprentice, take the time to learn and make them internal. I'd suggest stay away from 'new' systems because they tend to only work well to people that are similar to those who created the system. The older, traditioanl systems, through time, have becmoe more complete. They DO take YEARS to master, though. But it is so much more worth it. If you want to be 'tough' fast, just take boxing, there are great gyms in southern california! gero ------ Nidan-Traditional Shotokan

Hi, Dachi barai is exactly what you described. Sweep the stance, in other words just plain sweep. You see someone with questionable balance, oyu sweep them! The front leg, the back leg, inside or outside.... thanks for helping me clarify my post! Osu! Gero

Best way to end a fight is do all in your power for the fight not to start at all. Beggining and end are all the same. In Karate-do kyohan Funakoshi Sensei says do not let them know you know karate (or your art) until the moment of action. That will take them by surprise... Gero

Hi, I am nidan in traditional shotokan and for severla years I have engaged in full contact tournaments in various states and the only people that ever gave me trouble were other traditional shotokan practicioners and some traditional goju-ryu and jujitsu ones. Kyokushinkai were very strong and had good spirit but had poor balance so my dachi barai was my main technique agaisnt them and they spent a lot of time on the floor! Actually goju ryu karatekas were as strong as kyokushinkai but with better, more refined technique. MMA-fighters just did not have good striking technique and a low, solid gedan barai is the best takedown defense I have learned. I dont go to a commercial dojo, but rather have learned form my sensei as a lifelong apprentice and friend. We train very hard. Any traditional art is good if you take the time to learn the techniques well, even if it is only a few techniques. I wont to go open tournaments anymore becasue my sensei asked me to stop it, and I feel more comfortable than ever with my traditional shotokan after testing it out there. yours in budo, Gero