Drunken Monkey

well, wushu translates to "martial art" but yes it is a sport. it's whole point is display. and the whole thing about what to call chinese martial arts. i think it is always best to refere to them by their proper name (wing chun, hung gar, choy-li-fut etc etc). the reason is that kung fu itself means hard work. a chef has his kung fu. as does a taxi driver. anything that requires a level of skill is kung fu. taking this to the extreme one could even say they have very high "in bed" kung fu...

the no wasted movement thing in wing chun is a sly remark about the older flowery styles. as for getting in close, wing chun training is all about getting in close. the moment you make contact, you aim to trap and make you way clear for attack. if the road is blocked you find another way in. if there is no way in, you make your own way. in practice, this is very messy which is why we really aim to make every move count (hence our wanting to be able to change our mind during a move).

i think it depends on how you train (its that old thing again). learning the forms is one thing but practising them and making them work is another, totally separate and different kettle of fish.

this is a message from the Loose-Lipped Controller come check this and find out ya Wu-Tang Clan name. https://www.recordstore.com/cgi-bin/wuname/wuname.pl

this is one of those things that depends on the child in question and the circumstances.

well, most of the chinese conditioning methods are very harsh. never heard one like that though... can you tell us more?

well after all, the book is about keeping a healthy body, so why not feel better after practising the forms described? but well, i'm not a firm believer in chi so my thoughts on that are best left unsaid... y'know, it never occured to me to actually go and look for a copy of that book. i always thought it was legendary (one of two books given to the shaolin by da-mo). time for research i think.

um, what was the point of the original post? anyway, i have played with them and have been shown a couple of wrist training exercise with them. apart from that my knowledge with them is a bit thin. so, why do you always have a pair of chucks with you?

and another thing i've always believed that katas were never meant to be used as practiced. that is why it always puzzles me when i hear guys say they used whatever combo from whatever kata. kata/forms are just a way of organising your training. after all, by the time you have learnt one form completely, the movements will be in your head and you can then start to practice how they can be used. i think much of your saying that katas hide techniques stems from you taking them to be fighting forms as opposed to them being training forms.

well that's the thing. kung fu forms do not hide anything they really are just a way of organising moves so that you can practice different movements. the chinese styles generally acknowledge that without training, knowing the forms mean nothing. that is the very meaning of kung fu; hard work. about a movement in kata showing both sides of the move (aggressor/defender). in kung fu we specifically have two man forms for that purpose (you train in both to learn how one might match your moves). also in some forms, when we learn one move, we also learn the basic countermove (this is for basic sparring). if you look at the whole form it is always changing from attack to defence. it isn't about hiding, it is more about learning attack and defence. but why does it have to be intentionally hidden? it could just be that over time, people simply forgot. or perhaps they just weren't told so they in turn go and say it is hidden. it all sounds like a mcdojo's way of keeping a student hooked ("come to us and we will show you the hiden techniques")

but i still don't get how it is hidden. it all just sounds like bad teaching. this might sound a bit silly but could you explain bunkai to me. i should let you know that i am making my statements on this assumig that your karate kata are like kung fu forms...

just out of interest and because i'm feeling too lazy to do my own research, does anyone know how the old chinese guys used to make swords and the like?

and he is also mr white from dogs. in the scene when he meets with joe again, joe asks him about how he's doing and whether he's still working for marcelles... or something like that. could just be my ears playing tricks on me. dammit, want to watch them again to check now...

read an article somewhere about u.s weapons testing. can't remember exact details but the genereal gist was that a lazer guided missle missed a fifty metre building by about twenty metres. i remember the quote by the general typr guy though... "my god, we can't hit the broad side of a barn" this was a couple of years back though. will go through my back issues of new scientist to find it...

just like you can train to have fast hands but if you don't train your relexes against a live opponent your fast hands mean nothing.

ok, maybe it's time i asked a few questions but before i do, a few notes about myself. i practice wing chun and have trained in choy li fut and hung gar briefly. as you know, there is a lot of stance training in all three styles, as there is in all chinese styles but not once are we told to fight in the low stances. the first thing we do every training session is half an hour of stance training in which we sit in stances for five minutes at a time before changing. after this we kinda do a slow changing stance exercise where we change stances slowly, like a dance for about ten minutes non-stop. the point of this is purely to strengthen our base (legs). when it comes to forms pravtise, we are told to practise them in three stages: accuracy, strength, speed, before attempting to combine all three but again, we are told that the forms are not for fighting but for training the body to do the moves and build strength. what i want to ask is, just whatare you told in your kata training?

hey, could you tell me what "shou tsu do" is supposed to mean?

i think it is considered underground because it isn't that popular in china and hk where the stories of the hung gar clan, shaolin name, wing chun/bruce lee thing and wing chun/choy li fut fued feeds enthusiasm for those particular styles. look a the mantis styles, it is only popular because of the many cool looking bad-guys in the 80s kung fu flicks. and also, generally speaking, most chinese styles will tell their students not to teach others not because of secrecy but because if they teach it badly/improperly and that guy gets beaten up, it brings shame to the kung fu. this is especially rue in the close up styles like wing chun, bak mei, ying chow, chin-na etc because of the risks involved with getting up close in the first place.

it all sounds to me like you are saying that if you don't know what it is for, then it is hidden. isn't it up to you as the student to think for yourself and apply everything you have learnt? to put your pressure point knowledge, grips, joint locks, stances, turns, positions into everything and ultimately, your katas. after all, if you are just going through the motions then you are only doing half of the work.

but how do you hide something in a kata/form? isn't it just a case of people not knowing why something is there? i don't believe anything is hidden. the form is tehre for you to see and do. isn't up to you to decide what everything is for? that is what training is for after all, to try things and see if it works.

i think the general consensus is that the key is in the training. yes you can learn the style by yourself by which i mean you can learn the forms and drills but without proper training with a partner of higher skill/knowledge/training you will be limited in your applications. you may be strong and fast but if you have never actually used the techniques against a person, you will not know what actual sparring resistence feels like and you will not experience what actually happens when hands meet.

but y'know i always thougt that the bak mei style was a deritive of the eagle styles... or was that from another legend/story...?

i was talking about where the name came from. according to legend (which i don't believe i should add) one of the five survivors of the temple burning was an old guy who had white eyebrows.

just in case you were wondering, the name comes form the legendary old guy who had well, white eyebrows...

interesting note a lot of the old guys often ask us "what kung fu do you play"? (in chinese of course)