MasterH

Never happen. They have the money, they have the political drive. All you have is your moral stand. You loose. Me? I'll take care of my own little corner of the world and try and get allong with everyone.

When I left you needed a certian number of students to test for your 5th degree, something like 200. They may be high but I don't think so. You need to be a certified instructor, which I was, and the head instructor of your own school to test for 4th. I think that has changed, they have some type of point system now, the more students you have the more points you recieve. But there are other ways to recieve the points. And remember all you get once you recieve the required number of points is permission to test. I'm friends with one person who has tested six times for her 5th Degree and has failed every time. It's easy to get to an ATA 3rd Degree after that you do pay for what you earn. And I do mean $.

How old are you? Now's the time to start planning if you want. Study buisness as well as you MA and start small and work you're way up. Look into NAPMA and MAIA, two buisness MA orgs. Sit with your instructor and talk about it. Start a network of succsess full MA instructors and see how they run things. Pattern your ideal buisness plan after what you learn for the owner/instructor you most trust. Just be aware of the McDojo traps, and you'll do fine. Good luck.

All true. Look at the org I was with years ago, the ATA. It was traditional TKD. Then they added pressure points, ground fighting, a weapons program, a required instructor program, a required nember of students before rank advancement......it go's on and on. And it's not just them, orgs all over the place is doing this......some is good, some is bad. You can only bend a tree so far, but it still needs to bend. Good topic. You're making me think, hard to do on a Sunday!

Hey all, I've been seeing allot of former ATA students and instructors on this and other forums. Why did you leave? How far did you get? (rank) And who was your instructor? As for me I made my 4th Degree and realized that I didn't have the students to make my 5th Degree so I followed my instructor, Master Jack Pierce, out. The political climate didn't look like it was going to change, and it really has not. I do have good memories of the ATA, so I don't want to make this a hatefest, but you can be honest. Remember the user guidelines, I've been censored three times now, and don't want to get yanked. Master Adam D. Huntley

I fully understand and agree with what you're saying but I think I didn't clarify my point enough. The concept of quitting your job is always an unspoken variable on the table when it comes to any job. In an environment such as a dojo, employees are (usually) far far less expendable than in other businesses simply because of the required personal nature of the business. Having an experienced instructor leave your ranks over petty political garbage isn't something most Dojo chain owners want to deal with. I said in my initial response that the first plan of action would be to issue a complaint to the next higher person in charge. BUT if they didn't do anything about it, and you felt that you working was doing nothing but promoting a Mcdojoesque (I can make up words!) business then leaving would be something I wouldn't exactly hesitate to do. As far as this persons "legal" stand, well of course there's nothing within the legal system he can do about it. What law was ever written that defined the requirements for advancement in a martial arts school? No one ever suggested legal action, but rather political action by trying to get him removed from his position and/or fired. I suggested that if those higher were to ignore him, then to just leave or at least threaten to leave. Yea, I dig it. And your word usage is original, I dig that as well. It's just an overall bad position to be in, I feel for this person. If I were in this persons shoes I would do what a military man would do. Go up the chain of command, crap rolls down hill but gripes go up.....and I would make as much noise as possible going up that ladder. Remember in an org there are students - instructors - chief instructors/school owners - regional leaders - regional presidents - org leaders - and finnaly the org pres himself. Outside of leaving, that's where I would go.

Improvement is the american way, it's also a good buisness practice. Unfortunetly what I see as an improvement you will see as a step away from the "true" style that it was once ment to be. Take a lesson from the oak tree, tradition needs to be flexable and bend with the wind, or it will break.

And I don't get that. I value the signatures on my certificates more than the belt itself. And what do they do? Sign their own certs?

Well thats the Head Instructors problem, and yea quietly talk to everyone you can. Just don't get sued over it. Be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry carefull.

I can see a spin hook, going all the way around. But a reverse side is different, you don't do all the way around but forward. The power is directional, like a round house punch vrs. a strait power punch. The thai round house is a cool kick.......I'd hate to face that kick.

Well, that would be a problem.

I'm living in the today, and today we think before we act. So my mental state is first, physical state is second. I have a reaction time that is conditioned, mentaly. Again mental wins. I can kill someone with one punch I need to know where to hit and have the mental compacity to focus on that spot. Again mental state wins. Finally after the danger has past I legally need to know when to stop, mental win again. The mind will overcome any physical barrier, I learned this in the US Army. If you're not mentaly trained up you will eventualy loose it all.

Mutiny? Nah, I call it a necessary bargaining chip when you finally hit that point in your training when you realize that not everything about your dojo is all smiles and for lack of a better word, "kosher." I have the utmost respect and loyalty to my Sensei and my dojo, but as far as organizations go, I've never found one whether it be a karate school, or any other business for that matter that's truly put what's really important before the politics and the money. Although I have little to no problems at all with my school or system I know that if I were to dig a little deeper I'd find things I didn't like. It's human nature....or at least American businessman nature No, if I were in the position that Head instructor would be in I'd be talking to a legal council because legally there is nothing this person can do but eather talk to whom ever is in charge or leave. That person has been left in charge. There is a chain of command in MA and it needs to be fallowed. I undersand you do not like situation but nothing can be done. I'm sure this person has a buisness licence, insurance, pays rent......and on, and on, and on. Mutiny in the dojo will only do more harm than good. This person has absolutely no legal stand. He may have a moral stand, but welcome to america people.

My bad I jusrt re-read it.

That's a great point. I never thought about forms being copyrighted... I don't know where you are located, but i gather it is in the U.S. If so, then let me say this very clearly. It is illegal for anyone to 'prevent' you from opening up your own school in the same town. Monopolies are illegal, per the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. If anyone were to take any actions against you, they could very well serve time in prison, as well as pay a hefty penalty. No, unfortunetly the material he teaches may be under copyright protection. He may be able to teach the basics, even open a new school with the same style of MA. But the forms may not be taught in another forum without written permission. He may not even be able to use the Orgs name........it sucks but If I were to open an ATA school and teach ATA forms and ATA self defence and claim to be an ATA school in advertisements........I'd loose my shirt. Enviroman, did you mean to say something?

I don't know where you are located, but i gather it is in the U.S. If so, then let me say this very clearly. It is illegal for anyone to 'prevent' you from opening up your own school in the same town. Monopolies are illegal, per the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. If anyone were to take any actions against you, they could very well serve time in prison, as well as pay a hefty penalty. No, unfortunetly the material he teaches may be under copyright protection. He may be able to teach the basics, even open a new school with the same style of MA. But the forms may not be taught in another forum without written permission. He may not even be able to use the Orgs name........it sucks but If I were to open an ATA school and teach ATA forms and ATA self defence and claim to be an ATA school in advertisements........I'd loose my shirt.

we must have very exceptional children then O.o there is only one "child black belt" though, she is 14 and is a junior black belt she doesnt have a false sence of her own skills but i know she could defend herself quite well, actually she somewhere around my hight, and weighs more then me, and has a stronger upper body then me oh n im 21 n female I have average children, I deal with ADD and other issues, and they do just fine in the childrens program. They would not do well with the adults for obvious reasons.

Yup, the circle never ends.

I might of missed something here. Has anyone a buisness influence? Like for me Master Barry Lyon showed me we can be more than a donjon dojo, we can make a living. Or the Chief Master Clark in florida with his Mass Training series of buisness seminars. How 'bout the Kovars in Cali and ProMAC (Professional Martial Arts College)

Actually, I've read some of your posts and you've change my mind, or at least made me rethink my position so your correct to say you have been an influence on me. Like any good Black Belt. Keep it up.

At the place I attended it took about 2-3 years to get a blackbelt if you were in relatively good shape. They had belt testing every 2 months or so, and they charged a small fee for belt promotions.Sounds about the norm. An 8 week cycle. TKD is easy, you just got to stick with it. How far did you get? I have a quarterly (12 week) cycle, every week has a focus and it just repeats per cycle. I got to red belt before moving to Arizona where I took up Wado Ryu Karate at the Scottsdale Martial Arts center.What org? WTF, ITF, ATA? I'm just curious. Tell me to shut-up if you want.

A little slow, you're just a glutt'n for punishment. And you love it, as I.

At the place I attended it took about 2-3 years to get a blackbelt if you were in relatively good shape. They had belt testing every 2 months or so, and they charged a small fee for belt promotions.Sounds about the norm. An 8 week cycle. TKD is easy, you just got to stick with it. How far did you get? I have a quarterly (12 week) cycle, every week has a focus and it just repeats per cycle.

I will not give a black belt out to an A-hole no matter how good he is. He can go to Willy Wanka's Dojo down the street. "Don't let the door it you on the way out!" I see you studied TKD at some point, how did it work for you there?

And I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, if it works for y'all, go for it. Git'R Done! It would not work for a Martial Art that also teaches tennents that are as immportant as kicking or punching.