G95champ

Stinks No way could it live up to the Dumb and Dumber but it stinks They made the entire cast stupid and so cheezy. Its like a bad USA movie.

TJS How many times do MMA guys spar in the first 2 weeks? Normal Shotokan students don't spar until mid ranks if then usually. Quick fix meaning learing to fight now not later...

No need to be sorry thats all ture. Royce is by no means the best Gracie as he has stated many times he is just the one everyone knows because of the UFC's. Quality yes they guys he faced were good but no one was at his leval. By UFC III Kimo a avg. striker at best gave him a beating but lost. The in IV or V he and Shamrock fought to a draw I think in a Superfight. Shamrock was the best MMA he fought in the UFC's no question. But he never fought a GOOD striker. #15 ranked boxer??? come on if I recall the dude even wore boxing gloves and had no clue what was going on in when he got taken down. As someone stated before Kieth Hackney was the only real striker in the early UFC's. Royce did beat the one Japan Karate guy but if I recall that was his best fight in the first one. As far as the Tyson challenge its like this. It was a no win situation for Tyson at the time. Tyson was the most feared and respected boxer in 93-95. If Tyson accepted and won so what he beat a 170lbs Brazilian who was not the best fighter in his family. If Tyson it would have killed him. Imagin the MOST Dangerous Man in the world as he was calling himself Mike Tyson 230lbs loosing to a 170lbs Brazilian who was not the best fighter in his family. Tyson is not a smart guy but not fighting Royce was the smartest thing he ever done. Win or lose. On the flip side it was a win win for Royce because he was a no name and he would have made millons in the fight. The Gracies are the cream of the crop no question about it but a Gracie in a boxing match under boxing rules is like a boxer in the UFC fighting UFC rules.

Sorry MonkeyGirl

TJS Your right TMA will not compete today. Because training methods have changed. I don't mean class I mean training with weights, diets, etc... Just like you could not put Bart Star on the 2003 Greeb Bay Packers and expect him to be the same QB he was in the last 1960's. The times have changed and so has the game. People who want to be fighters now come out from day one and train to be a fighter. They don't use kata, or weapons, or gi's, etc. the got to hit the bag, spar, run, go the gym, etc... Athletes today are better than they were 20 years ago because medicine is better. Thats not to say those guys back them were not great they were and thats not to say the guys today are not great they are. Point is the style in which you train has very little to do with anything. The training methods you use do. The more popular fighting became the more people worked on only becomining a great fighter. The more I do something the better Im going to get at it. RIGHT??? So if I take a style where we spar everyday chances are Im going to be a better fighter much sooner than I would be in a class where we spared only once a week and that may be at a controled paced. No one every questioned that. But using the same argument If I spar everyday I am missing out on what the other guys is doing all week. Does that make me a worse MA??? No just means were working on differant goals.

Mr Green Im so glad you read what I wrote but did not listen to any of it. MMA teaches you to fight quicker no question about it. Fight better well like you said that is up to the person doiing MMA vs the person doing TMA. TMA teaches you other things early on. Just like MMA teaches you to fight early on. Both will get you to the same place down the road but they start in differant places. Think of MA as a big circle. All of us are trying to get to the center. On the outside of the circel you have arts that focus on fighting, arts the focus on weapons, arts that focus on spirt, etc etc etc. Every art has a little bit of this and a little bit of that in it. The longer we train the closer to the center we become. My point yes MMA will teach you to fight sooner but but doing so you loose other things. TMA teaches out discipline, morals, kata, weapons, history, traditions, SD, blah blah blah as well as how to fight. In the end they both get to the same place. My comparison was very good BTW. You win the race in your Vet. I get there in my dump truck but it takes me longer and I got some more knowledge along the way. Now because you learned so much quicker than me who is to say you did not stop by at the Lib. on your way to the finish line and learn some more.

This is not a fair question because the goals are differant. I can train in anything (type of Combat) for 6 month to a year) and be pretty good. Give me TKD, Kung Fu, Karate, TSD, etc fighting techinques and let me spar and work fighting moves everyday with a good teacher and I will fight as good as any Pankaration guy. However the point is that the traditional art are not about fighting. They are about learning not to fight. I have made this point several times. Not all of us join MA to learn how to bust heads. Thats great if thats why you are here and thats great if you are good at it. Fact in most people who get into traditional arts do not seek to get to this ultimate combat leval. I would say less than 20% of all Traditional arts black belts can hold their own with MMA only because this is not the goal we seek. This would be like me wainting to put a Dump Truck in a street race against you Corvette. Guess what Im not going to win. But if you wan't a load of rocks Im your man. Differant arts focus on differant things. Some focus on more than one. Most traditional arts leave the door open for the person taking it to choose what they want to do. Again the question is true but it is a bad question becasue both are not used for the same thing.

Welcome to KF.

Bad pick She's hot don't get me wrong but much to thin and well slutty for me to consider the hottest babe. I would love to see the list.

With time Shotokan will be very good for SD. Now in 2 weeks your not going to know a lot but 2 years, 10 years, etc you will be fine. Its not a quick fix.

That all depends on you. If you are able to mix the 2 in your mind as well as with your body it will be fine but some can't do that. Everything is up to the person doing it the art as very little to do with anything in the big picture.

We always start people with their left foot in 5 and 3 step sparring. No reason except for it is eaiser to watch a group at once and make sure everyone is correct. However on one step and free style its pretty much up to the person. I don't know anyone who would teach you to fight only one sidded. What if you are left handed?

Gives the Dan's one night to train at their leval without being slowed down by others.

In MMA events like the UFC I would say you have to be be a better grappler than striker to win or do well. Never did I not agree to that. My point is that NO great striker has ever been in a MMA event because of that reason. In MMA grapplers have a huge advantage. On the street I think strikers do because you can be one and done lots of times. BTW stopping a person from putting an arm bar on you is not a big trick. Granted I have never sparred with a GREAT grappler but those who I have were no second rate black belt and they taught me that and how it works and as of yet it has not failed. Although I don't do ground stuff a lot.

I don't know about that because unless you are traing to fight the other you will be working on what you do. Strikers train with strikers just as grapplers train with grapplers. I will agree with you that an avg. grappler can take down a striker much more so than an avg. striker can keep a grappler off of him. Which goes back to my point that IMO only avg. strikers have gotten in the UFC because the rules do not favor them.

I don't study them I am doing this off the top of my head. Would you agree that a striker who knows how to stop a grappler from taking him down is going to beat a true grappler? No question doing both is better but to say one is better than the other is just not fair to either one.

Thats the same point I made. I said it is not a real fight. Its pretty close. But its far from real. The thing is in a real fight you never know who, what, when, where, why, etc. In the UFC you do... I can take my football team and practice them for weeks but its not the same as a game. When Im in the guard or being mounted the quickets way I have learned to get the guy off me is to dig my fingers into his throat. Don't see that much in the UFC do you???? Lets say Im a grappler and I miss a shoot I fall to my knees. I know the guy fighting me is a striker. Im down on all 4's. In a real fight that striker is going to kick me in the teeth and prob. KO me. But in the UFC I know im fine. He may punch me and if he does jump on me thats a plus for me. Because im the grappler and I want to go down. RIGHT???? No question there has to be rules because saftey is always frist. However don't say strikers are less fighters because they don't win the UFC thats like saying Basketball players are not good athletes because they can't hit a 95mph fastball.

Point on RJJ vs RG is that the event they are in will tell us who is going to win 99% of the time. What does money have to do with it. Im sure boxers make a lot more espcially the heavyweights but I don't see where you are going with that. The mat helps both your right but traditional art strikes usually train on wood floors as to where grapplers almost always have a mat or padded floor. Just being used to it. His first name may have not been Marcus its been a while since I watched him. The black kickboxer that hangs out with Frank Shamrock. Smith is his last name. Vitor Belfor is a perfect ex of how a good striker can end the fight qucik. Yes I know he is BJJ but he is the best striker in the UFC by far.

Ghost if you are going to make a argument please do so but this double talk is just stuff that will get this thread closed. Read what I said in that the UFC is not a real fight. Every point I made was anit grappling. 1. You don't fear being jumped by friends so we can go to the ground. 2. He can't hit me in certin places so I can rish a shoot or takedown. 3. The ring is soft and I can risk a hard fall. The only rule IMO that goes against grapples is the time limit. I do think the final round should have none.

What..... Yes you can strike from the ground. But honestly how many strikes do you see do that. Strikers are stand up guys. Yes you can grapple in the clinch but how many would rather be on the ground. Couture won by striking standing and in the mount.

Don't think I ever said that. LOL BTW Randy Couture a beat a Grappler Liddle at UFC 43 with the jab. Pretty impressive striker it seems. I know Couture was a wrestling and stuff but if you watch the fight he kept it up and just out punched Liddle. You saw the fear in Liddle when he was forced to fight a strikers fight. I will also admit that only a grappler as good as Couture could have kept Liddle standing and not been taken down.

The spinning thrust is a hard kick to block. Because it is thrown so close to you. I teach a trap but hopping back just out of range and catching the foot with you hands much like the techinqe at the end of Hangetsu kata. If the kick is throw at a distance it should be eaisy to see comming and you can side step as everyone has already pointed out and counter somewhere.

TJS I disagree certin things fit certin people. A 45 year old woman can take Shotokan or TKD or something and enjoy it and become pretty good at SD. But that same 45 year old woman could not last a week in MT or BJJ because of the beating shew would take. Certin arts fit certin people. No question about that. You don't see many 300lbs guys in Kung Fu and you don't see many skinny guys in Sumo.

Gracie was never touched? Kimo busted him up a bit and at the time he was not a grappler. But like I posted in another thread no strike of Gracies leval has ever been in the UFC. Where is Chuck Norris, Roy Jones Jr, etc. Gracie fighting the early strikers in the UFC is like him fighting me. Well not that bad but you know what Im saying. Its the Yankees playing a minor league team. The UFC is NOTHIGN like a real fight just a boxing match is NOTHING like a real fight. Why it is staged. You know who you going to fight weeks ahead of time. You know you are not going to die. You know its one on one and you don't fear going to the gound because you know his friends are not going to jump you then. You know he don't have a knife or gun. You know he cant hit you in the groin, throat, eyes, etc or he will lose. How can you even think the UFC is real. Just because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and acts like a duck don't make it a duck. Also the element of suprise is out of the UFC which is the biggest thing in a real fight. The control of emotion. Yeah you fight in front of a few thousand people but its not the same as getting the quick burst of fear and excitment like you do on the street. BTW yes I have benn choked out by a grappler who traind with the Gracie family in Brazil. Just for your info. Your right Shotokan does have the guard, mount, and other things in it as I have stated many times inthe past. You are also right we don't work on it much. Mainly because we don't want to go down. Many McDojo schools dont even get into this aspect of karate as well so whatever. Early Shotokan was much like Judo according to several accounts I have read. Again the point is the only true strike I have seen do well in the UFC is Marcus Smith. Vetor Belfor is the best strike I have seen but he is a grappler by trade. Belfor may be my best example of how quick a good striker can end a fight. He has what 3 or 4 wins in under a minute.

Marcus Smith was basically a true striker when he won his first UFC title. Anyone who says leg kicks are over rate has not taken one for a good Thai Fighter. There has NEVER been and NEVER will be a striker in the UFC as well respected as Gracie is to a grappler. Thats the truth. Gracie vs Roy Jones Jr. in a boxing ring? A cage with padded floors, rules against certin kicks and strikes favors a grappler thats not hard to say is it.