elbows_and_knees

which is what I stated the primary purpose of stance was - transition. Read my first post on this thread. The "stance" itself really is not necessary, just that you are transitioning in such a way to accomodate what you are trying to do. This is why a pure judoka (with no other training) will not know what a horse stance is, nor do they perform stance training - transitioning is just basic footwork. It's not the stance that even performs the throw - it's the kazushi and the kake. part of the kake of seionage is extending your legs from the bent position - taking you out of the "horse stance" the stance is part of tskuri - the transition between steps one and three. If you just stay in horse, you still will not complete the throw. see above comment on judo / jujutsu. Do you think the o soto gari you learn in a kata is any different in judo or jujutsu? No. JJJ does have some techniques that judo does not, but the effectiveness of the shared throws is the same. As for style of karate, i already commented on that - funakoshi and kano were friends. A natural, logical conclusion is that he included some of his judo experiences in his karate.

you can't revert to something you've never trained. They don't revert to kickboxing, they revert ro their basics - it just so happens that the basics of several styles are similar.

TSD was the original style. Just like any other MA, the korean MA were riddled with politics. Also, as some of you may know, korea and japan don't have the best history with eachother, and TSD was heavily influenced by japanese karate. Some thought that TSD was "too japanese", and wanted a more korean flavored alternative. The result was TKD.

dunno... he doesn't work down there - he was one of two patrons that had an altercation with eachother. When he came to, he was still dazed, and from what I hear ( I wasn't close enough to see) he had a huge knot on his head. I'm pretty sure he sustained a concussion at the least.

you don't need stance for that. the term "sitting down on a punch" is used in boxing all the time, and they don't project their mass in a given direction -they stay centered. she simply says that useing your body mass and assuming a correct body position (stance) helps your technique and you don't have to arm wrestle a guy over a take down, it had nothing to do with boxing and judo, one more thing , karate doesn't use judo base throws since it predates modern Judo, all throws in karate are simple jujitsu or chin-na techniques. and notice I never said it doesn't help. But the way it was stated was that that stance is a necessity, and it's not, as I pointed out. As for judo based throws, shotokan does NOT predate judo, and its founder trained with jigoro kano. AngelaG trains shotokan. In addition, since judo stemmed from jujutsu, it's techniques technically ARE jujutsu techniques, though the purposes behind the two arts may differ.

judoka grab. Heck, even from a karate standpoint, since you are still using judo base throws. kazushi is what achieves the throw. Now, once again, in that respect, dropping of the body CAN indeed achieve kazushi, but isn't NEEDED. that's my only point.

Last night at work I watched a guy get slammed head first into the concrete. He was unconscious for about 20 mins.

That's what I would try. In a real fight, if they're trying to work a choke, I'd try grabbing the fingers and cracking a few. Or reaching back and grabbing the groin. from the position he's referring to (and most others) grabbing the groin either 1. isn't possible, or 2. isn't practical In the first case, if his hip is pressed into your back, you can't access his groin region anyway - your own body is shielding you from it. in the second case, you are not only leaving your face and head even more open for attack, you are giving him your arm so that he can lock it and break it. If he's trying to work a choke, fingers are a bad idea too. 1. he may use a closed fist when he reaches around your neck 2. your best bet is to fight the choke, not worry about his fingers. If you reach for his fingers and miss, or find that his fist is closed, you may have just given him the time he needs to sink in the choke. wrestling has a few good escapes from the position you are referring to.

I agree with that in a sense. I agree with the first part, but as far as the second, I don't actually believe that stance training would benefit a boxer, thai boxer, wrestler, etc. I would argue that it would hinder their progress, at least in the beginning. But that's off topic, so I digress.

matsumura passai passai dai passai sho bassai dai bassai sho tomari passai i can't think of anything else, actually i am looking at this list ,i can only see 2 main kata Matsumura version and Tomari, i am sure TKD guys have their own version of Bassai too, what do they call it? I know some TKD schools use bassai dai as one of their forms, but I have never seen it or learned it. As far as I know, it is still called Bassai Dai. Some tsd schools use it too, but the korean styles have a heavy japanese influence anyway, so that doesn't surprise me.

you don't need stance for that. the term "sitting down on a punch" is used in boxing all the time, and they don't project their mass in a given direction -they stay centered. Who says you don't need stance for that? Just because the boxers don't do it while punching does not mean that it's right, and certainly when talking about things out of a boxer's remit, such as grappling and throws. And the mass is also centred, there is no off-balancing, the head stays over the hips, it's just that the body mass is dropped. This is particularly useful for westerners who tend to move from the upper body, as it lowers the COG more towards the hara. EDIT: Also refer to the article linked to above. obviously you don't NEED it if boxer's don't do it, and if judoka don't do formal stance training. a judoka won't know what a bow stance is if you ask him. I didn't say you CAN'T do it that way, but it's quite obviously not a necessity.

No, it's not. yes, it will. no, they don't - not very well, anyway. fights happen too fast to have time for a lot of blocking. evasion will serve you better. In all the encounters I've had as a bouncer, I've never once blocked -I evade. The guys I work with who have no formal training don't block either - they evade. yes, there is - unless you only do point sparring.

you can't really say that in all cases, though. look at it from judo terms: tai otoshi - forward stance - pulling. seionage - middle stance - pulling AND dropping. sumi gaeshi - rear stance - pulling and dropping. I prefer the weight distribution analogies.

Actually, in one school I trained, we used more contemporary names. The horse stance was a "straddle legged stance", the bow and arrow was a "forward stance" and the back stance was a "60 / 40" stance, for example.

you don't need stance for that. the term "sitting down on a punch" is used in boxing all the time, and they don't project their mass in a given direction -they stay centered.

stances aren't static - you don't hold them. you transition from one to the other while you are fighting. For example, someone throws a punch, I shift my weight back into a cat stance and block. I then step forward into a bow and arrow stance and lunge punch. He throws a roundhouse at my body and I shift into a back stance then block. He next kicks at my head and I lower into snake creeps down (longfist kung fu) and let it go over my head...transition. that's what stance is about. As for grappling, after you throw tai otoshi, look at your body - you are in something resembling a bow and arrow stance. o goshi and ippon seionage will leave you in a horse stance. This is how stance has its use in grappling.

IMO, it IS the same thing. Nobody can tell me that because I train muay thai and judo that I'm less of an ma than someone who trains shotokan or kung fu.

that's a relaxation issue. I am a fairly big guy - tyson's size. I'm not tense at all. We had a new guy join class yesterday. He's big too - but he boxed for two years - so he's completely relaxed also.

haven't seen it. But, my school has a BTT black belt. We would bring him over from brazil to do seminars, and he liked it here so much that he moved here.

kung fu people can be very offensive. watch wc and clf guys. we were offensive in longfist and shuai chiao as well.

capoeira is actually very effective. I train and spar with capoeira guys on a regular basis. People buy into what they see on tv and video games...

I would train both - that's what I was until I stopped bjj (work schedule). there is enough cross over that you will get to work what you are learning in both classes, which is extra practice for you. Also, it makes up for the gaps in each style. I would kill my fellow judoka at my first judo club on the ground, because i was the only one who trained bjj. They did a lot of ground work, but at the time, ground work was pretty much the only thing I was doing. The reverse was true in bjj. They had several good wrestling and bjj takedowns, but I could take most of them standing, except the ones who cross trained in judo.

training extremely heavy does something similar. The most explosive athletes on the planet are powerlifters. and you can powerlift without adding much size, if you don't want to add mass.

why do people always assume a bigger guy is slower? if he were so slow he couldn't hit you, smaller guys would KO big guys and sports wouldn't need weight classes. I bet tyson in his prime punched faster than anyone on this forum - and he weighed 225 (same as me...) a boxer's body is very supple. they stretch just as you do. Now, a kicking ma, like a thai boxer, kerateka, etc. will be more flexible in the lower regions because they kick. a boxer doesn't have to be as flexible in the legs. yeah, I do. Why? 1. he's got the fighting experience 2. he'll likely still have more power assuming that the MA is also 70. If he is a young guy, then no. But I would put my money on a young ma over a 70 year old ma also. that's just what happens with age.

first, check out the schools. some judo clubs are REALLY laid back. Others are very competition oriented and train extremely hard. next, watch the content of the classes. take note of how much standup the bjj class teaches and how much groundwork the judo class does. If all things are equal (both are competitive, both do stand up and ground regularly) then they are on fairly even ground. All else being equal, i personally would pick judo. Most fights will begin with both of you standing - judo will excel here. If it goes to the ground, judo will give you more than enough foundation to hold your own on the ground (provided they work groundwork regularly, as I stated earlier) As for most fights going to the ground, those came from police stats that were used to promote bjj. Thinking about it, cops probably want to take a perp to the ground, as it will be easier for them to restrain the average guy there than it is to restrain him while standing. That said though, many fights do indeed go to the ground, as you have also noticed yourself. Both bjj and judo are invaluable in such a situation.