UseoForce

Ummm...? Has anybody noticed that the author of this post hasn't replied, probably has stopped watching this thread, and made up his mind by now? By all means, go on arguing, just an observation .

Please, someone tell me everthing they know about the striking that supposedly used to exist in Judo before it was "sportified."

Can a boxer be a good fighter? Of course, I would put my money on a boxer in a street fight over almost any other single style (Obviously, hybrid styles have numerous advantages over any one style.) Why- 1. Boxers train a few techniques and combinations to perfection, instead of having a disorganized mess of techniques. 2. Boxers have great conditioning, which is more important than many instructors think. 3. Boxers train full contact, so they are used to hitting and being hit full force. They also have very good defensive skills (bob and weave). To modify boxing for street fighting (NO sport-only fighting styles are good for the street), all a boxer has to do is get used to protecting off-limits targets, and learn to use a few techniques, such as elbows, that build on the upper body emphasis of boxing. Factor in mindset, and you have about as good of fighter as you will ever get. One thing to remember: Having lots of techniques does not insure victory. It is how they are trained that matters.

I agree, Judoguy. If we learned one thing from MMA, thats it.

The trick is keeping it simple - if i find a move I cannot practice because its "too dangerous" or whatever then i wouldnt use it.... locks, grabs, breaking techniques cna be practiced - you can learn to get the hold on a moving target, -and you cna practice applying the pressure on an inanimate object [working on stronger grip, etc.]..... Exactly.

Sam Said:But also he's a young child..... self defense isnt really the same for him - unlikely to be able to defend against an adult, whereas even well trained at a young age fights are rarely serious - as they get older they will be able to work out what is effective for themselves. I agree, but many instructors don't see this. Teaching punching and kicking to a young child probably won't help much in a self-defense scenario. Yes, but I don't think his dojo is sending the right mental message.

Great posts all!

One of the things that bothers me is that, because he is very young, if his instructor tells him something is good for self defense, well he's a BLACK BELT! HE KNOWS EVERYTHING! I don't know if a young child would be able to discern between what is good for self-defense and what isn't the way you or I would.

I had a young relative approach me and tell me he was going to start a martial for self defense. Now, this art, in my opinion, is terrible for self defense purposes. Just accept that for the purpose of discussion. I won't mention the name of the art because I don't want to be accused of bashing it. My relative is big and strong for his age, and he could have gotten some great self-defense advice from his father, a police officer. My question is, would he have been better off working with his father than practicing a totally non-self-defense martial art? Can martial arts training make you less able to defend yourself by overriding natural instincts and tendancies to use your strengths? I know, its disturbing, and I'm unsure of my own stance.

Having these issues with blocking and such is a consequence of sportifying a martial art. At the Olympic level, people institute all kinds of unecessary rules in attempt to keep the sport the way they want it. Whether you like those changes or not, they move the art far away from its original intention (The ironic thing is that they are meant to preserve the art. Awarding more points for high kicks encourages high kicking, for example). Once people are given a set of rules, they will do anything they can within those rules to win. If the rules are loose, like NHB type, there is little degeneration of style but less of a loyalty to a particular style. People use whatever works. If they are tight, like olympic sports, the art is bent and warped as athletes try to figure ways around the rules, and the rules become more important than anything else. So, if for sparring people want to hold their hands like this and kick like this, that's fine, but if you want self defense, look elsewhere. It's sad really. TKD as its founders intended was probably a solid self-defense system. But, it has been sportified to the extreme and that's the reason you get so many people "bashing" it.

My point is, how do you know you'd be able to execute that lethal technique if you've never tried it before? Think back to when you began martial arts. How many techniques did you get the first time?

Do you consider your honorary belts as valuable as your other belts? Do you feel you've earned them?

Can anyone suggest a low calorie protein source, particularly something I could just grab after a hard strength workout? The problem with powerbars etc. is they have fat, carbs, and therefore calories that defeat the purpose of hard cardio.

AngelaG Said: I think as long as people are honest Yeah, that's huge. It's when people try to use honary rank to sell a product or service that you encounter problems.

Hmmm... I know of a UFC legend I trained with in a seminar, a great fighter and a gentleman as well. I was surprised when he told me his blackbelts except for one were honorary. It didn't diminish his accomplishments in the ring, and it didn't mean he didn't have some awesome skills (He was VERY good at what he did). I'm sure he didn't ask for any honary rank, and wouldn't it be an insult if rank was refused? Perhaps other styles just wanted to connect themselves to this great fighter, maybe hoping to win some popularity. But this guy was a fantastic grappler, an all his black belts were in grappling arts. In end, for me, it didn't matter what he wore, but what he could do,

Thanks, sounds great!

Muay Thai, for sure. There is nothing better for self defense than a rigorous fitness program combined with devastating techniques and all-out sparring. If this is true of WC, pardon me, than that art would also be a good choice.

I'm glad someone is taking interest in western MA at any rate.

Why don't you give us a good overview? I'd really appreciate it.

Search Jim Arvantis

No, that's not what I mean. Here it is in simple terms: Full Contact I throw my resisting opponent in the dojo using osoto gari. I get attacked, I throw my resisting opponent with osoto gari. Not full contact My partner, even after I've learned the technique, cooperates completely when I attempt my throw. I get attacked, and unused to resistance, I find I am unable to throw my opponent. Bruce Lee advocates this approach to fighting in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do, in his list of "The Facts of Jeet Kune Do": "9. All-out sparring and the actual contact training on moving targets."

Obviously, that would be dangerous. I'm not saying to recklessly go beat the crap out of eachother. This is with proper instruction, supervision, training, and protective equiment. Different degrees of contact are appropraite for different levels. But, you cannot expect to apply your techniques in a self-defense situation when under extreme stress if you've never applied them full force before. Again, I'm not saying to train recklessly. Note: This methodology was also what made Jigoro Kano's judo so effective against tradition JJ that did not practice full contact. Note: Full contact, to me, does not me no rules. It means applying a technique the same in training as you would on the street. I.E: Osoto gari or a cross are performed in a nearly identical fashion whether in the dojo or on the street.

I think many people have been comparing styles and debating with completly wrong criteria. In my opinion, the only way a style/art/method can be effective is you train all out with full contact. Actual techniques are of relatively little importance. Now, I understand that that the UFC and other mixed martial arts events aren't perfect for analyzing fighting styles because of rules, environment, etc. but hear me out These are the miost effective styles in NHB competition: BJJ, Boxing (kick), Muay Thai, Freestyle Wrestling, Greco Roman Wrestling What do they all have in common? Full contact. Except for BJJ, each of these styles has only a few techniques (even with BJJ, only a few BJJ techniques are used regularly in competition). So, for an art to be effective, you must train full contact, just as you would apply the techniques in a real fight.

Kickboxing is one of the few martial arts where you can learn a great deal and get great conditioning in a short time. Go for it! Also, the hard contact training methodology will certainly help you become a better fighter. Think: Do you want rank or to become a better fighter? I can't make that decision for you, and I'm not saying one is neccesarily better than the other.

This is a very interesting thread, and has certainly changed my opinion. I think sport BJJ has already moved too far from what it used to be (Won't debate this here). The olympic higher-ups would probably make all sorts of changes for "safety" and "viewing pleasure." No, leave martial arts in the hands of martial artists.