Taikudo-ka

Societies so called "morality" has been severely screwed up for a long, long time. Try reading "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand for an extreme example of "big brother government knows best collectivism" vs individual rights. See, what those men did wrong was try to actually defend their individual rights, individually. ("Rights" which of course they don't really have.) The "correct" thing to do is to wait for Big Brother to arrive and determine what should be done, then let the "officially" appointed people handle it. Do NOT attempt to actually do anything yourself. At least, that's how Big Brother sees it...

Guys that come in real close with their face in yours trying to be intimidating are actually just BEGGING to be kneed in the groin. (Or elbowed, or thrown, take your pick).

We always see fictional characters with amazing awareness of their surroundings, often coupled with brilliant deductions about the nature of their changing environment. Eg: - James Bond sees an armed assasin creeping up behind in the reflection in a girl's eye. By noticing she glances up (at the killer) and back he deduces she's in on it, and spins around at the last minute so that she is the one stabbed in the back! Sherlock Holmes constantly deducing everything about people and situations from tiny pieces of evidence. Characters that sense trouble from a pattern of footsteps behind them, or because " the birds have stopped singing", or just from some supernatural talent than lets them detect an enemy approaching silently, duck a swinging blade at the last minute, and despatch an opponent from behind, all without even standing. The classic is the old kung fu master who sits calmly eating his noodles during a fight, and catches the knife thrown at his head in his chopsticks. Then he finally looks up at his assailant.... In reality, I feel that instinct and common sense go a long way. Unfortunately modern society seems specifically designed to dull the senses and shut out awareness. The constant bombardment of noise and movement results in the brain simply attempting to filter out more and more information. With all the traffic noise, construction noise, violently loud stereos, constant bombardment with advertising, video monitors, neon signs, radios, PAs blaring announcements on train stations and the like, shouting drunks, aircraft noise, trucks, pedestrian crossings beeping madly, mobile phones going off with 1001 different obnoxious rings, car horns blasting, Harley Davidsons and rotary Mazdas causing minor earthquakes wherever they go... I mean you can't even take a leak in a public toilet without some awful muzak being piped in and an ad above the urinal reminding you of the condoms you never get to use anyway, advertised by some model you could never pull in a million years... In an attempt to filter out this constant bombardment, I'm sure I might accidentally filter out the potential mugger or homicidal maniac. The less distraction, the more aware you can be of what IS there. However, full sensory alertness can become difficult in the modern environment. Even just having good, sensitive hearing, particularly in high frequencies, makes walking around the city a literally painful experience. You have to shut out stuff that makes every nerve in your body scream, sometimes.

The hand chambering is interesting. I do goju and the hand is chambered at the chest, as has all the modern karate I've seen. Perhaps the high and low stances have always been there, but it seems to me the emphasis has changed more to low stances. I mean, if someone could actually show me a picture of Funakoshi getting down as low as some modern Shotokan-ka, I'd be interested (and surprised).

Well done.

Kids are curious. Teenagers pack an attitude towards everything. Adults have generally had all curiousity and adventure beaten out of them, and are trained to ignore most of what goes on around them. If you tell us a bit more about what exactly you're doing, maybe I can give a more detailed answer. I remember at karate once a young guy walked past the open window, looked in and let out this best corny, cliched, Bruce Lee imitation style kiai... the one more "Asian sounding" than any Asian, I'm sure you all know what I mean...

I've gotta say that in this situation ju-jutsu or any of its offspring would be the best thing. Go with the push and trip/throw the other guy with his own momentum. If he tries to fight back and you swing as well - you're both busted. Headmaster doesn't care "who started it". If he tries to fight and you get a hold/lock and make him submit, or just pin him with a wrestling move, you could legitimately claim you were trying to avoid the fight, trying to stop it, and just held him until he calmed down/teacher arrived. Particularly if you shout out stuff like "Stop trying to hit me! Are you going to stop if I let you go?" and the like... If all you've got is basic karate, I'd suggest you focus on blocking and evading at the "pushing" stage. Make it clear that you're not interested in fighting, but don't let yourself get pushed around. Draw the line, defend it, and if he still wants to cross the line, then let him have it. Try to end it quickly, without permanent or obvious damage to your opponent. i.e Don't break his nose or you probably WILL get into serious trouble. School violence is best avoided. But at the same time there are bullies who will trample on your rights and confidence if you let them. Violence should be an absolute last resort, however, I can think of a few incidents in my own childhood where a swift, hard punch could have saved years of suffering and torment later.

Also the 80 year old master has spent a lot of time watching exactly how things work. He doesn't need to tap into any mystical energy, he just knows exactly where to push, slap, hit, etc, to get the right result, and also how to take full advantage of his own body mechanics.

To add to BlueDragon's points on running... Why do most people lift their legs so high when they run? Particularly people trying to do long distance running - some of them virtually jog on the spot, wasting vast amounts of energy to move slowly. The serious runner focuses on horizontal movement - getting a good long stride, and lifts the leg only the minimum amount necessary. Foot landig is light, like BlueDragon says. One does not "pound the pavement", rather one pushes off from the pavement. But I'm surprised how many people "pound the ground", even when they walk.

Now if we actually catch aliens coming in and making off with parts of space stations, it might make it all worthwhile. Meanwhile, the problem with terraforming Mars is gravity. Its small size allows gasses to vaporize into space. I don't think you'd be able to build up a decent atmosphere. That's why Mars has an atmospheric density only about 1% of Earth... I don't see how this could be overcome. Only Earth sized planets or larger have the "thick" atmosphere required for life. (And here, only Earth has the right composition of gasses.) Venus is a good size, but has the opposite problem - too dense an atmosphere, basically like the whole planet is subject to a severe "greenhouse effect".

See, the other thing is cost. Consider the fact that all the moon missions were "one-shots" that did little more than act as tourist trips to a far away place. Once Apollo was over it became obvious that no permanent progress had been made. Each rocket worked once, was discarded, and each trip brought back a few souvenirs but didn't make space any more "accessable" for the future. The shuttle signified a turning point, as it was obvious more permanent, reusable efforts had to be made. The establishment of the international space station is the next step in making space more accessable. With the space station acting as a "stopping off point" and regular shuttle flights eventually becoming a reality, even for rich tourists, space becomes more accessable. Missions to other planets like Mars, and also further moon exploration, become easier too. With interplanetary spacecraft able to be built for permanent use in space, docking in orbit with space stations, it is a much cheaper option, and also allows more future exploration. I think the right way to approach Mars is to develop and perfect the international space station first, and also develop a newer and cheaper shuttle option compared to the current aging design. Perhaps different designs for hauling people vs. larger cargoes. Then, an interplanetary ship for the journey to Mars should be assembled in orbit, never again to touch ground. It can be purely pragmatic in design, no concerns about aerodynamics, landing gear, tiled heat shields, etc. It would be designed to cope with several interplanetary missions, not just one. It could also be much larger and more spacious than the old Apollo. Much larger. This ship would carry a smaller landing craft for ferrying people down to Mars. To increase the sustainability of space exploration, each mission should seek to build infrastructure to enhance future exploration. (Something sadly neglected in the Apollo missions). I don't think there is a need to drop people off for a permanent settlement on day 1, like someone suggested. However, perhaps they could start dropping off modules in orbit to later build a permanent Mars space station/docking port. They could even start taking equipment for settlement in stages. I mean, you could leave it up there in orbit for years - who's going to steal it?

True. In a real fight, you don't (usually) have a set date, and months to train, and a ref to go "ready". It just happens, and the "surprise" element is probably what gets most people. I saw a documentary once interviewing Sydney street kids who stole for a living. Favorite tactic - run up behind and "coathanger" the victim in the back of the head/neck full force. An illegal "rugby style" tackle that generally results in the victim lying on the ground in great pain. They worked in pairs, with one person distracting the victim while the other closed in.

Yes, it is the same stance. I read up about Hangetsu here: http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/kata/hangetsu.html Ah Ha. If it IS a southern Chinese form that made its way into Shuri-te, that explains why it's in Shotokan. Naha-te took even more forms from the same southern Chinese styles, hence the greater prevalence of hourglass stance.

M'kay, these Aikido-ka are really using ki. I'm just faking it with science. Fortunately my fake version works just as well. Just like the skeptic's society people can fake breaking concrete over their stomach while lying on a bed of nails. All the while using a fake scientific explanation to trick you into thinking they understand what they're doing. Really, they (and me) havn't a clue, and are subconsciously and instinctively using our ki. Peace. Anyway, in sparring, I like to use combination parries/blocks and head strikes, with leading hand, ala Bruce Lee (and also in the first kata I learnt). I also specialize in sidestepping, and catching kicks. [ This Message was edited by: Taikudo-ka on 2002-07-29 02:52 ]

- "Buy a dog. A big one." Hehe dogs look mean and scary. The barking and snapping jaws terrifies most people. However, I've heard that if you stay calm, dogs are quite easy to kill. Easy to kick 'em away, and if they jump up I've heard you can grab the front legs and literally rip them apart, which will probably kill the dog. There is a reason man has domesticated even the largest of dogs, but not equivalent sized great cats... Anyways, I think the moral of this topic is that in a real fight, you must expect anything, including flying beer bottles.

I'll quote Funakoshi directly, from memory here - "Throws and locks were practised in my day, and I recommend you practise them as well", or something along those lines. Take a look at Karate-Do Kyohan. The contents can be seen at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0870111906/reader/4/002-9311003-5640822#reader-link Look under section 5 in the contents - "Throwing Techniques"... You can't get much more "Shotokan" than Funakoshi himself. Anyway, as far as throws in kata, Zakiru is right. Just about any move can become a throw if applied right, the basic lower block combined with a step or turn, for example. As for its popularity, -: is right, I think it's mainly because Funakoshi worked his butt off to make it so. However, he wasn't the first in Japan. Choki Motobu went there before him, but was never as successul there as a teacher. As far as stance height, I took a Goju class, and then signed up for the style. The stances are much higher than Shotokan, and tend to utilize small, circular steps. Only the "Shiko Dachi" (Sumo/Horse/Straddle stance) is really low. I can't think of any pictures I've seen where a Goju man is "out-lowering" a Shotokan man. BTW, what do you Shotokan guys use sanchin/hourglass stance for, seeing as you don't do sanchin kata? I initially thought this stance a defining characteristic of Naha-te style, but I've seen it crop up in enough Shotokan references to know otherwise. Just wondering how it got there? Do you have another kata that uses it?

Also found this in relation to Uechi-Ryu. "In 1897 an Okinawan named Kanbun Uechi traveled to China to study martial arts and he learnt the tiger and crane style known as Pangai Noon from which he eventually created the style of Uechi Ryu which was named in 1948." Just off a blurb for a video at: http://www.fightingarts.com/estore/catalog_videos01.shtml

I can also do the unbendable arm. Everything to do with proper muscle control, no magic involved. Same with those Juko-Kai style groin kicks. It's all thigh and no ki. The ki explanation sometimes gets people to do the right thing, but personally, I find it easier if they just tell me what's really going on. (Which fortunately has always been the case) Unbendable arm is good because the muscles you use to keep the arm "straight" are the same ones used to throw a good punch. It also shows the fallacy of tensing the biceps to make a "strong" punch.

Jack has a good definition there. - "Being able to take a compliment with a smile and not think you are god's gift " I was going to say this part... Basically most people given a compliment either rabidly deny it, which is really just fishing for more compliments, or take it as given. Compare: - "You look good" - "Oh, no, surely not. I think I look fat?" - "You look good" - "I know, I'm so darned good I'm bad!" - "You look good" - "Thank you". The first one matches Bon's description of his "earlier" view of humbleness as totally discrediting yourself, but really, that's false humility. Actually you're hoping for the "No, you look really trim. Really great!" extra compliment. I would define humbleness as a quiet confidence which needs neither to boast nor grovel, yet acknowledges that there is always someone better, always something new to learn, even if you haven't found it yet.

White Crane is a southern style, from Fuzhou province (aka Fukien). The Bubishi contains the complete tale of White Crane origin. Basically, like Wing Chun, it is developed by a women, after watching cranes fight. Many of the early Naha-Te and Goju masters went to Fuzhou to study martial arts. Trade and travel between the RyuKyu Kingdom (Okinawa) and Fuzhou was fairly common, and I believe Tomari contained a substantial population of Chinese, mostly fishermen. The more you study karate history the more Chinese links you will find, particularly to Southern styles. Get a copy of Patrick McCarthy's Bubishi if you are interested in this stuff as it contains answers to all your questions. The introduction includes Patrick's detailed history of karate as well as info on the kung fu styles that have influenced it.

Goju-ryu has a very definite Chinese influence. If you watch the kata, some parts look almost "Tai Chi" like. This style is known to have very strong roots in White Crane Kung Fu. Perhaps some of the other Naha-Te styles like Uechi would display similar traits. Shotokan has some Chinese roots in Shuri-Te, but has become very different in Japan, and is possibly the style least like its Chinese forbears.

I don't now about strength in people vs their size, but I know that pound for pound we are the weakest of the great apes. A 150 pound chimpanzee will knock the stuffing out of a 150 pound man.

Alcohol is the only drug that actually penetrates the blood-brain barrier, and literally kills brain cells.

Excellent points, thanks. I do agree that intelligence and attitude are the most important characteristics. I contributed myself to the discussion linked above. However, I was trying to get down to some gritty details here, rather than broader conceptions, however noble. The jutsu, not the do, for those into the Japanese speak. Hehe I guess I didn't really expect anyone to reveal their "secrets" here. I'll tell you the story that inspired this post, and you decide if I'm on to something or not. I initially signed up as a novice at a particular karate school, with no idea what to expect. I studied hard and thought I was making good progress. However, I began to notice the sports competition focus of the school, and decided to "shop around" a bit. I went to another dojo, and signed up for a lesson. First thing the instructor did was rip apart my stance, pointing out various weaknesses, particularly to a groin kick. He was right, I realized I WAS wide open, but my previous teacher never mentioned it. Perhaps because groinkicks are illegal in sports competition, hence no need to worry about them? Here's another - the roundhouse kick form I learnt was "for kicking the head only", and a slight variation on the form was used for lower body kicks... hmmm, I didn't know that one either. There is more... In hindsight it becomes obvious that the first system was designed to make us good competition point fighters very quickly, largely by cutting out anything not directly related. The second teacher is intent on teaching the full traditional karate system, even if it means doing lots of stuff that is useless for point fighting. Do you see where I'm going with this rather Sherlock Holmes like detective work? Okay, something else of interest was my research into the "old style fist" and other striking techniques apart from the "universal almighty seiken fist", palm horizontally down, that symbolizes "fighting" to everyone nowdays.

Tapout, I think the point is whether UFC/NHB duplicates a "real fight". Noone is saying that NHB fighters can't fight, or that they would be unprepared for a street fight. Indeed, quite the opposite. They would probably be among the best prepared. However, is NHB "identical" to a real fight. Of course not. Their are many variables that differ. Is NHB "similar" to a real fight... perhaps. Is it a fair simulation of fighting - yes, particularly compared to some types of competition out there. However, "identical" - no. No need to get hyper defensive. Stay objective and I'm sure you can contribute some good stuff. With your knowledge of NHB, perhaps you could actually have a deeper knowledge of some of the differences or limitations involved. What exactly are the current rules regarding striking and grappling? What sort of surface do they fight on? Time limits? What decides a match? I've seen a video clip here or there but never delved deeply into it.