baronbvp

I think the thread may be diverging here from the original ideas.

There you go, Bushido!

Good points. Some people consider using knees or kicks cheating. That is part of the reason behind boxing's "auld-tyme sport" reputation as the pure fighting sport. I guess, in the case of a street fight, that would make me a cheater regardless of the crowd.

Their crappy beer may have been responsible. OMG it's true what they say - you don't go to France for the beer. Germany's beer, on the other hand, rocks out loud.

Another good question, bearich. It seemed to me that no one was doing anything about it. They each had a friend trying weakly to help break it up, but no one around seemed to be paying attention. No crowd formed; no one from the business establishment they were in front of seemed to be concerned (maybe because they were already outside, usually the biggest concern); no one helped or tried to break it up; no cops showed up. My biggest sense was that it was business as usual. I'm not actually philosophically against a mutually-agreed-upon street fight that resolves an issue and doesn't escalate or involve anyone else, I just haven't seen that be the case since maybe high school. It was strange. They were smacking each other pretty hard, but no one used anything but closed fist punches to the face with little ducking, bobbing, blocking, or deflecting. Maybe I've spent too much time watching trained fighters fight, and I forgot what a limited yet uncontrolled event a street fight can be. It was just the low level of violence and an acceptance by others that surprised me, compared to the US.

Both of you guys make great points. I just know I couldn't restrict myself if I was getting punched in the face, regardless of the honor involved. I saw another thread (don't remember which one) where someone was saying that you bring to the fight yourself, and that's it. If you can't fight beyond wild punching, that's understandable. But as a fighter with at least a few more skills, it would be difficult for me not to bring everything to bear necessary to prevent injury to myself, stop the fight as quickly as possible, and deescalate or escape the situation.

I just returned from vacation in Europe. While in Paris, my wife and I inadvertently observed a street fight between two French men as we headed to our hotel. Unlike most fights, these two looked as though they had agreed to fight over something (a girl?) because it wasn't a full-out, violent fight that escalated. They did not look to be friends and were fighting hard, but pretty much it was head-hunting boxing only. One guy was taking the worst of it, though, and the other guy wouldn't stop. I couldn't help realize immediately how effective some kicks and knees would have been. Neither one of these guys was ready to give or receive a knee to the face from a clinch, or to even clinch, or to kick, or grapple. To me it validated the KB/MMA style over street boxing. Why leave any weapons out? As we circled well around the fight on our way to our hotel, I even quietly pointed out to my wife how neither guy was clinching or using knees or kicks or joint locks or taking it to the ground. Neither man could or would end it as they kept looking for the hand-breaking haymakers to land. To me, the clock was ticking before police were sure to arrive. It was very obvious that they were untrained in true fighting. Also, it seemed to be accepted by the people around as an okay way to resolve their dispute, in a way I haven't seen in the US. Anyone else ever seen this?

That depends. Bruce Lee liked his power side forward - the straight lead. He believed that was the side that would get the most work, therefore you should put your strong power side toward the opponent. I train both stances, but when I'm tired it is natural for me to switch to power side forward.

One of my favorite kicks. Simple, low, and I think more effective than what many people throw, the spinning side kick. That said, I wish I could do it as effectively as Chuck Liddell. He doesn't even extend it much. Take a look.

Yep, I do that one too. Once I stopped side kicks it got much better. Now it only flares up if I lift heavy on leg day. The breaks of getting older!

Actually, my piriformis muscle can become painful. I have a stretch where I lift my left knee up my right leg with the left foot outside the right leg. That works well. I stopped doing the kicks that were hurting me and that bursitis pain went away. I am a low kicker anyway. Thanks for asking!

Cross, nice answer! I like your thinking. I will adapt immediately. Well, maybe not immediately. I'm on vacation. But soon.

Worked out yesterday after walking around the Washington Zoo for four hours in the humid 90 degree heat. I took the kids to the pool to cool off and lifted. Tomorrow I'm taking my wife to Germany for two weeks for our 20th, so I doubt I'll get too many workouts in. I will hike in the Alps, though. Rough, I know...

Dazed and Confused, congrats and welcome! I found the same thing with JKD and am hooked for life. I found it to encompass all the training I had ever taken and my own philosophy about fighting. I also found it to be very tailored to older fighters - effectiveness, efficiency, and intelligent application of force combined with savvy about fighting situations overall. Enough brute bashing - this is a style - or non-style - that I plan to keep for life. Even though I have had to stop formal training due to my professional schedule, the JKD mindset is with me to stay. I hope to find a JKD school in Berlin if I can find the time to train. If not - maybe I can just look in the window...

Thai fighters perform a fairly extensive and exotic pre-fight ceremony, often together. Many traditions of respect and competition exist throughout the world. MMA fighters might be most likely to buy each other beers and talk about the fight afterward. MMA is a relatively small (though growing) community. There is plenty of respect - and trash talk - to go around. On a side note, I have bowed many times in training but never bowed before a real fight. So....does that mean I don't respect my opponent? No.

Huge day yesterday. I haven't been logging my workout here for awhile due to time and hassle. Warmup: 5 min elliptical machine Lat pulldowns: 60x12, 80x10, 100x8, 120x6 Low rows: 90x12, 110x10, 130x8, 150x6. 150x10x2 with legs/back engaged. Chest dumbbells: 37.5x12, 42.5x10, 47.5x8, 52.5x5 Decline crunch situps: 50 Chest flyes, machine: 40x15, 60x8, 40x10 Ab machine crunches: 60x20, 80x15 Triceps pushdowns: 60x12, 80x10, 80x10 Curls: 60x15, 80x8 Shoulder press: 35x10x2 Leg press machine, tight compact stance: 110x12, 150x10, 190x8, 230x6 Calf press on same machine: 230x25 Leg retraction: 90x15, 110x10 Calf press machine: 150x20, 290x10 Chest press/flyes machine to exhaustion: 60x10, 50x10, 40x10, 30x10, 20x10 Decline crunches: 20, 20 Muay Thai mirror boxing and knees, 10 mins with 5 lb dumbbells and empty hands. Tired, okay, bye bye.

Great article, cross. Two things I like to do also: 1. While in non-surprise pre-fight while asking questions/talking (a great idea on your part), I keep part of my attention on others and the scene as a whole. Many sucker scenarios develop by an attacker engaging/distracting someone while a buddy circles around or comes from another place to be the real threat - a non-surprise surprise, if you will. I like a stance from which I can defend/flinch from the front, back and the side. Balance is key here. Also, keeping an eye on the entire situation allows you to look for assistance or likely allies should it get worse. 2. I find palm heel strikes effective at close range but have not mastered them at longer ranges, because my reach becomes shorter when I bend my wrist to strike with the heel of my palm. If I am maintaining a distance, that might not be my first strike. Great thought about it looking like a slap, though. I'll have to consider your idea.

And with that gun discussion, back to the wild, wild west we go. Pretty soon you'll see dueling in the streets again. Oh wait, that already happens in places like Compton.

Fighting...or beer. I can never keep those two straight.

That, my friend, is a great post. I love this forum. I like hearing all sides.

Thanks. I can't be killed.

When defending yourself, it pays to keep in mind the concept of proportional response. Check this out: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_re_us/deadly_force_1;_ylt=AkDk0kunyz7jmzX2aZALFjIE1vAI

I train to fight not because I want or expect to get into a street fight. I actually like to fight, in a way, just as some like to play tennis. I'm talking about sparring, not street fighting. I don't fight. I don't seek it and I try to avoid it. At 45, it's not that hard to do. But I also want to be good at it should it ever become unavoidable. So I train to fight - or used to. My MA training, while encompassing many years off and on, is not nearly as extensive as yours sounds to be. Sensei Rick, your analogy of learning to fly is a good one. Let me reply with this: I spent almost three years learning to fly jets for the Navy, then most of 20 more flying them off aircraft carriers and teaching others to do so. I learned a lot more about flying by actually flying than by imagining flying, simulating flying, reading about flying, or going through the motions of flying with a partner. These are all important and one will not become as good a pilot without them. But there is no substitute for flying practice, to get better at flying. That's why the Blue Angels practice so much. When one flies in combat, the time spent flying beforehand makes it as natural and instinctive as can be. I am not a fan of kata. With my limited time for training, I would rather practice fighting and train in various aspects of that. Some love kata, even live for it. Some do MA purely for the self-actualization, and I honor that. But to me, if you are a black belt who can't fight, you don't deserve to wear black. Of course, I don't have a black belt so my view is perhaps biased.

Yes, but I was tired of doing kata. I learn to fight better by sparring. I like karate, don't get me wrong. However, I am more of a natural kickboxer in style than a karateka. I like Muay Thai best of everything I've tried. Great points, though. Now I'm an "old guy" who doesn't fight.

True, I can see going a round with punching. But then it comes down to winning, and you go with what you know. He didn't get to continue - never got in the UFC cage. Plus, he cried all over the place after he lost and realized what he'd done. Even though you feel a bit sorry, mostly there was a sense on the show of "you are uncoachable and did this to yourself." Tough break for a young guy but a good lesson for others.