Andrew_Patton

Adding to what Sauzin stated; Eku and Bo are as far different as Tan Bo (short staff) and nunchaku are, they have simmilar nuances that correlate to one another (hip rotation, simmilar stances, hand placement etc.) but they are still worlds apart as far as application, hand changes/position, and your 'chambering' hand. Also motion wise, strikes with eku are a little more 'gentle' and 'flowing' appearance wise, whereas the bo is a little more directly to the point. Although just to state a fact, if you are doing Choun no Eku (e.g. Choun no Kun with an eku instead of a bo) you are not doing traditional Eku, but rather a bo kata with another weapon. as with any weapon it is a bigger asset to yourself to learn that weapon instead of just playing with that weapon. Go find yourself an instructor that specializes in Kobudo (weaponry) instead of doing what I've seen several times (e.g. Pinan Nidan No sai) that's not learning a weapon at all, that's just playing around with a weapon.

Not much else to say about Yamashita Kobudo, other than, out of the Thirteen weapons Sensei Matayoshi taught Sensei Yamashita teaches IIRC twelve. This is because of the lack of fondness he has for Kuwa, he just dosn't like it. I don't really blame him, because, except for a few nuances, kuwa is exactly like an Iyeku. "Anyways you say a lot of the weapons are chinese weaponry,so will the way that you wield any of the weapons be the same or similar as someone in a Kung-Fu class" Yes, unless the kung-fu class you ask of is a Wushu class. Matayoshi Sensei learned kobudo before Wushu was around and all of the weapon systems in Matayoshi kobudo were meant for combat. Although I will say that I have seen some Dao and shield forms that looked almost exactly like Matayoshi style Tinbe. If you need weapons, don't bother with the cheapie century ones, ask your instructor to get Shureido weapons (Century bo's are okay though) or Yamashita Sensei does carry weapons e.g. Sai (Shureido IIRC), Tonfa, Kama, Tinbe, and Sword (Iai-to or Mogito (aluminum alloy blades)).

Yamashita Kobudo is far from a flashy style, Sensei drills the basics far more than anything else. Yamashita sensei teaches a mix of Matayoshi Kobudo and Shorinka Shorin-Ryu's weapon system. both are not flashy systems. BUT, I will say one thing, he is still somewhat hollywood, and if asked he will show a bit of 'flash' (I can only think of two occasions, one with Kama, and another with Nunchaku) but then make sure you know that it's only good for movies or the like.

I just finished watching one of Nishiuchi's tapes for the very first time, and I have got to say the information on the tape is wrong. in the beginning naration it states to some effect that "Shihan Nishiuchi is the highest ranked student under Shinpo Matayoshi in the united states" now given that this was 1992 I was a bit scepticle at this claim, but I have heard he touted this again at a seminar he put on in chicago when this is clearly false. AFAIR the highest ranked student under Matayoshi Sensei is my Instructor Tadashi Yamashita, Ninth Dan under Matayoshi Sensei, and head of the ZOKR in North America ( http://www.yamashitabudo.org/Kobudo.htm sourced from here), he's been Ninth Dan for quite some time, and had been 8th for a while before then. I'd like some weigh in on this.

okay Goju_boi, let me take a crack at answering your questions... "How many katas does it have?" well, the matayoshi syllabuss has many different katas; Bo; Choun No Kun Shiishi No Kun Shushi No Kun Tsuken No Kun Sakugawa No Kun Sai; Sai Dai Ichi (Nicho Zai) Sai Dai Ni (San-cho Zai) Chinbaru/Matayoshi no sai Kama; Kubo Nicho Gama Matayoshi Nicho gama Iyeku; Tsuken Akachu No Eku de Nunchaku; Nunchaku Shodan, nidan, and sandan Tsunkuwa; Tunkuwa Dai Ichi, Tunkuwa Dai Ni Surichin; Surichin No kata Nunti; 2 nunti kata Tinbe; Matayoshi no tinbe Tekko; Maezetto Tekko Kuwa; Kuwa no De San-setsu Kon; Sansetsu Kun dai each of these weapons also has a set of basic movements called Hojo-undo, these vary in length from weapon to weapon, i.e. Bo has 15 movements while tinbe has six. This is a nearly complete list of kata from Matayoshi Kobudo, at least it's all the kata I know from Matayoshi Kobudo (I train a hybrid style of Kobudo developed by Tadashi Yamashita, that incorporates Shorinka-Shorin Ryu's weaponry into the Matayoshi Kobudo lineage, making for an insane amount of katas, complexes, and clashes. "Why you wear a black Gi?" We wear a black Gi to symbolize the realationship between Ying and Yang, hard and soft, and to symbolize the melding of Okinawan and Chinese fighting arts into a singular system (Shinko Matayoshi learned the Hoe, sword and shield, and three sectional staff from a few different masters in china) "Is there some form of sparring?" that all depends on the dojo, if you go to the right place you might not be suprised to see advanced students break out the bogu (simmilar to kendo armour, but with shin armor added) and practice with bamboo bos. "How closely related is it to Chinese weaponry?" If you take up Matayoshi Kobudo, or a system derived from Matayoshi Kobudo, you'll be learning mostly chinese weaponry, Shinko Matayoshi learned IIRC the tonfa, bo, hoe, sword and shield, and three sectional staff from many Chinese martial artists. "How long does it take to get a black belt in it?" it all depends on your instructor, many will adhere to a very rigid structure of dates, others will play everything by ear... it's like asking how long a piece of rope is. I just wish to add that if your instructor learned from one of the Matayoshi family, or the US head of the zen okinawan kobudo ranmei (applying to matayoshi kobudo only) you're in for a real treat.

In the right circumstances, I'd say a finger strike would be a decent choice, but bar none, if you don't have the conditioning you'd better stick with palms and knuckles. (Fairfax_Uechi, since I know you Uechi people are all nuts, I'd like to suggest you write an article or start a thread on how you guys condition your strikes, grips, etc. I guess my interest in body conditioning has once again piqued.)

Andrew, I do believe rich_2k3 was talking about a real fight, not dojo ettiquite, but you do bring up a good point, you shouldn't fight dirty in the training hall, you should work on finding out what works against a particular fighting style, i.e.; boxer, brawler, kicker, all-around striker, grappler, wrestler, etc. then in the off chance you encounter this type of fighter, you can apply your tactic to defend yourself.

putting in my two cents here since I have been at the hands of a boxer many times, and in the ring with one on a few occasion, I have found one thing, throwing punches with a boxer isn't all that hard, IF, it's an amature boxer who is pretty new to the game, but as soon as the boxer's got a bit of experience you're gonna be in a world of hurt. Now, if the boxers playing your game, allowing you to use your bag of tricks, you can, with some training for specialized scenarios, slowly chew the boxer up, keeping your gaurd in front of your face is key here, as always, distract the opponent from his usual defensive areas, and try to take his legs out from under him, remember to strike key areas, and don't try to punch the face, it should be noted that boxers develop pretty strong chins and an ungloved punch (gloves protect the wearers hands, not the other way around) isn't going to do much there, on the street strike the throat, groin, legs in general (if you're okinawan karate, i.e. goju-ryu or shorin-ryu you should know a good leg-kick.) and if you have to go to the face, use a quick, sharp palm-heel, it acts as a distraction, hides much of the vision and gives you an instant to get to the blind spot, where you can grapple or throw your opponent. In close is a different story, throw everything you can (finger strikes, elbows, knees, headbutts (street only not sparring circumstances) to the most vital points you can, ribs, throat, groin, etc. but under no circumstances should you throw to the body/abs (a boxer's conditioned to fight a boxer's game remember?) I just want to add that scenario training is very usefull, ask an accomplished fighter of another style to come in and spar a little with you, learn their tactics, give them free lessons, and learn how to counter particular fighting styles, such as; boxing, kickboxing/muay thai, BJJ/JJJ, wrestling/judo, there is nothing that scenario training will do, but advance your tactics against someone who fights different than you do.

Well, then Goju, I appologize, but I'd just like to add that slang is a strange thing. In my area people use the term 'hardcore' to mean something at the pinnacle of whatever endeavor someone undertakes. i.e. many people I know refer to Kyokushin people as 'hardcore' meaning that they are at the top of the dog-pile. not meaning they are insane, but that they are in a word 'awesome'.

NYC Kyoshi I have to dissagree with you on the thought that a round Moto reduces the amount of control or stability when dealing with Sai, the problem is probably with the grip not being proper, and a proper grip is something that takes years to develop, a flat moto, round moto, octagonal sai, century sai, shureido sai, or custom sai makes no difference, they all can strike equally well, and equally hard, you just have to have form that's better than the sai you're handling. I have used all types of zai that I have mentioned above on Makiwara, and with a proper grip I do not lose the sai and the shape of the moto has nothing to do with my ability to keep the sai in hand. Now hollow sai, versus Solid sai, metal type, heat treat and balance are all very pertanant issues, and probably where the real issues are when buying or handling zai.

that's not hardcore Goju-Boi, it's stupidity and damning the people of Australia to Even stricter laws prohibiting sword sales. Now, just because a sword breaks doesn't mean squat, I'm just gonna wager my money that the sword in question, lets not call it a sword, it's a murder weapon, was a cheap $40 wallhanger, that is made of some awfull 400 series stainless steel, with a horrible heat-treat that would be brittle enough not to cut thru two tatami without shattering. and calling a murder hardcore just exudes a bit of immaturity Goju_boi.

Well, the great thing about Kobudo is that virtually anything you pick up can be utilized as an implement of self-defense, lighters (think along the lines of a kubatan), belts (nunchaku), pool-cues (I know quite trite), and even your soap-on-a-rope could inflict quite a lot of damage. I've heard an interesting concept from a few okinawans, that your Martial arts experience cannot be completed unless you learn how to handle a weapon, and, many concepts from Kobudo do translate quite nicely into your empty hand/grappling/striking background. And yes Mr. Green you are correct the Hoe is unique to Matayoshi Kobudo. I have read many times that the only lineage keeping Kuwa-jutsu (art of the Hoe) alive is Matayoshi Kobudo, I have yet to find any system that teaches the weapon that has not learned it from Master Matayoshi.

Matayoshi Kobudo traditionally teaches 13 different weapons; Bo Sai Tonkuwa Iyeku Kuwa Nunti Nunchaku San-setsu Kon Tinbe Surichin Kama Tekko Tetchu Each of which come together to teach a person how they CAN weild virtually any weapon, the concepts are great, and it's one of those indesposable systems that anyone who is interested in fully understanding weapon concepts should find a school that specializes in teaching it.

I'd have to say that if you wanna learn the Bo properly from any tape/video you're completely SOL, I've been learning Kobudo for years, and the tiny nuances, hip movement, hand tension, relaxation, power development, are still things that need TONS of work. And I'm currently a Nidan in Yamashita/Matayoshi Kobudo, and I have access to plenty of quality instruction time. As far as a decent video, you might want to try out either my sensei's tapes (Tadashi Yamashita) or Mikio Nishiuchi's tape series on Kobudo, both are available from Panther video, and should show proper technique, I have not seen Nishiuchi's tapes, but he is a student of Master Matayoshi's and therefore should know his stuff very well. (BTW, the 'Rock Solid' tape series is part of Century's new XMA line of flash-oriented tapes, in other words if you're not a gymnast or a batton twirler, and not interested in learning either, don't get it, it's not for you)

Okay, so I've been wanting to give my hand at trying a few private lessons, and I'm just interested in finding out how the best way to go about doing this is... any serious suggestions are welcome, I need ideas.

well, I'm not exactly sure if these are from okinawa, but if you search for 'sickle' on this website ( http://www.oescoinc.com ) they have pretty good kama on there, I have these and I am somewhat satisfied with them.

For Shodan in Yamashita Shorin-Ryu: We are required to know five Bo kata Choun No Kun Shushi No Kun Shushi No Kun Sho Kihon no Kon Shodan Kihon No kon Nidan One Sai kata Nakazato No Sai Sixteen Empty hand kata Three Naihanchi Five Pinan Two Passai Two Kusanku Chinto Jion Gojushiho Gojushiho Dai NI Bunkai for all kata Several two man complexes Breaking Complex Pinan Complex Sui Ken-Do sets 1,2, and 3 defense against weapons Eight Ippon ... I'm sure there's more to it, but I can't quite remember all of it right now, I'll check my slyabus and get back on here sometime later

I've done both I used to box, though I admit not much. And now I exclusively train in karate, and to boot I've been in a few fights. I spar with lower ranked students fully padded (hands, feet, and head-gear) for safety reasons, but whenever I spar someone my own rank/experience, I do enjoy sparing full force/speed bareknuckle. (minus head contact of course) Now I don't throw so many punches on a bag anymore, I do knuckle push-ups and makiwara training for my hand conditioning, but still, wrapping your wrists or putting on gloves does not teach someone to be able to hit with a straight, solid wrist. Which is my main problem with wrapping my hands, I will however say that on a canvas bag I refuse to hit without gloves. But only hitting w/ gloves sets someone up for failure, just like not hitting someone or getting hit by someone sets them up for simillar failures.

I'll have to second Chibana Sensei And I'll have to add Matayoshi Shinpo, a chance I missed by a few months.

Okinawan kobudo terminology http://www.kodokanboston.org/kobudo_terminology.html

I don't know what I'd do if I didn't journal everything that we went over in class when I was an under-rank, now that I'm teaching I can go back through the years of notes and class-by-class teach what my sensei taught me and pass it down to my students.

Cross training's nothing new, if sensei A is okay with it, and sensei B is also cool with not being your only instructor, it's an okay idea, as long as the two styles compliment each other.

Many kids do pretty good in Martial arts, others, well, it just seems like the parents are forcing their kids into something. On the subject of kids actually doing good in martial arts, at my dojo we have to 11 year old blue belts, that whenever they spar draw a pretty good sized crowd of onlookers, these two are fast, and I mean fast, kids tend to be looser than adults, and these two are as fast if not faster than many of the adults in the class.

This one's gonna be a shocker... Bo/kon. that's what we start every student out with...

Page one of the literature we give new students states (loosely quoted): that finger and toe nails need to be kept cleanly cut, jewelry needs to be removed, no watches, un-scented deodorant and/or cologne needs to be properly applied in adequate as to keep body odor from hindering other people's training. So, yup for my dojo at least, it's a rule. a darned good on to boot.