Andrew_Patton

hmm, well, honestly, I do not care for the Nishiuchi tapes very much, as far as I can tell, he's deviated on a lot of the hojo-undo (basic technique) sets, and changed them around drastically, he doesn't teach his stances spot on from what matayoshi sensei taught, and some of the bunkai are iffy, but on the plus side he does explain grips and weapon history for about 10 minutes per tape

yes, I believe the palm down fist is a modern thing, old style boxing guard had the palms of the hand facing your face IIRC and the punches still turned but ended up vertically oriented instead, still having that quarter twist that they have nowadays just with a different orientation

yes, the UFC has a registered trademark on the octagon... Actually on the word octagon Refering to the 8 sided cage they use. But, the Nevada State Athletic Commision (basically the rules for MMA) require a cage of at least 8 sides to be used... so, yeah, you can use the 8 sided cage, just not call it 'the octagon' it is 'an octagon' not 'the octagon' other than that, you can use it. Or you can pull a strikeforce and use a circular cage

Ah, MMA is the best full contact sport out there for figuring out what's 'the best' it's based off of Vale-Tudo, which just means 'anything-goes' and that showed consistantly (the first UFCs were Vale-Tudo (1 & 2)) that, a background in grappliing AND striking were favorable (most of the Gracies know Judo, BJJ, and Muay Thai, don't let them lie to you ) now anyways the discussion's about the scoring system, not the sports effectiveness. Anyways, like I said, the best judge of who won would definately take into account who was trying to stop the fight (i.e. Rashad did nothing w/ his takedown) therefore his points for the takedown should be negated, however if Bonnar got a takedown, and started going for subs (ankle-locks, neck cranks, anything) or started working ground and pound he'd get points for the TD. sounds like a better use of TD points, no?

yeah, there's several types of fights like that (ortiz v belfort, ortiz v griffin, two other examples) but the thing w/ the UFCs scoring is that it's really the NSAC that makes the rules (nevada state athletic commision) unlike say pride, they don't realize that in fifteen minutes (unlike boxing) whoever pushes the pace, tries to finish & does more damage should get the win... needs to be addressed though

absolutely train the boxing for this month, it'll give you a great base on your hands, positinoing, and use of your hips. it's always good to jump in, muay thai hands are pretty much the same as boxing's just not as refined and utilized less, so go for it.

yes, tito's had his knee (ACL, hamstring and femur) all injured in training w/ his new overzealous buddy Matt Hamill (the deaf guy from TUF) he suffered a cracked femur, partially torn ACL, and Strained hamstring from Hamill, but this was months ago, and Titos pretty much able bodied now.

haha... well, that fight would have been against Rich Franklin, not a great showing on ken's part (his boxing's amazing, his kicking... should never be used) I have a conspiracy theorist friend who is an inactive former pro wrestler (WWF/E, WCW, and all-japan) who says that somewhere in that fight franklin missed some strike, and shamrock executed a perfect, textbook wrestling back-fall... seems to think it's a work, haven't seen that fight since he said that, but it's something to look into.

well, even if sakuraba KOd kenny (which isn't very likely as saku doesn't really have KO power) it's not like Ken doens't have a chin, he stood and traded with ortiz in their first fight (bum ACL and shoulder even) and didn't get put out of commision, so in this fight it's a non-factor. And yes, Sakuraba's probably one of the most entertaining fighters ever (see his fight w/ Royce, where he starts taunting Royce, at one point he even started to pants Gracie )

ummm.... Ken's never faught liddel, his last fight was kazushi sakuraba... who IMHO is one of the top fighters in the world, and albeit a little crazy, but losing to him is not a big deal, and it looked like a lucky punch, the one in a thousand shot, and IMO ken wasn't out. here's shamrock's record : http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=4

hey now... go train with shammy sometime, the guy's a beast, he more than knows what he's doing... still wont do much against tito, but I'm still putting a bit of money on him. Anyways, that fight between Ed and Kendal was pretty good, lots of heart shown by Ed. Only REAL noteworthy fight of the night... the other's were pretty much how I expected them to go.

yes, you are correct, I meant to mention that the focus was on ground work, but instead I got my wording mixed up when I proofread my post. Somehow I edited it to say kosen's focus is on little to no groundwork, when I meant to say little to no focus on throws and mostly on groundwork, I'll just edit that real quick.

now, let's just see if I can remember my facts correctly... IIRC Kosen judo is also refered to as 'school boy' judo, this is indeed just a limited Judo, less danger on the throws (i.e. no 'drop' variations, no kata-garuma, and very few makikomi throws), most of the focus is on ne-waza, and more focused on physical education, and building the individual as a fully functioning member of society. Kodokan Judo, which I should know being a practitioner, is the complete art, and is supposed to be taught as Kano taught it (in reference to his main school the kodokan) and it's main focus is on the martial application of the art (through randori, and kata) all 67 (67, IIRC) throws are presented in their entirety and the complete (at kano's time) ground arsenal is presented. Kodokan judo also focuses on the development of the individual. Both 'styles' (probably shouldn't be called different styles, they are the same entity, but different 'focuses') are just different interpretations of the original teachings of Dr. Kano. They both do equally well in Judo Shiai (competition) and overall teach the same thing, but Kosen Judo is what is taught in the school, and is slightly limited vr. Kodokan Judo. Edit: to re-word Kosen judo as being mainly focused on groundwork.

actually with the interchangability of terms, I've talked to more than one person who was a TKD blackbelt (I know the school) who said that they were such and such rank in 'traditional karate' coming only from a TKD school. I've seen flyers (in a chinese restuarant of all places) that promoted a 'kids karate' program, with the WTF logo in the lower corner. (in fact this particular flyer had 'not karate morons' written on it, probably by one of the ten people in the area that knew the difference) Also, after the first few UFCs I've talked to people that knew Ju jitsu... and after I asked them to spar... um, well, can you say they didn't know an arm-lock from a whole in the ground, and for that matter didn't know what mount, guard, side-control, etc. were, but knew how to do a sub-par pinan nidan... and had a 'black-belt' in their system In this country it seems to be whatever the 'buzz term' is gets the people in the door. go figure money = happiness to some people.

I'm definately going with choke, nothing stops an opponent as effectively as making them go to sleep. Plus it's easy to hurt a limb, while a choke is actually brutal, yet when it's released it turns into gentleness... whereas if you snap an arm, well, nothing gently with that...

I'm gonna seriously, and I mean seriously, advocate sticking to one style for a little longer than a few months (at least around a year) before you decide to cross into another style, it takes a lot of dedication to train in two Martial arts at one time, it's much akin to working two jobs at the same time, you can do it, but it takes a lot of time to learn two full/complete systems.

Bo, Sai, Tonfa/Tonkuwa, Tinbe, Nitanbo, Jo, Eku/Iyeku, Surichin, Tekko, Techu, Nunchaku, Kuwa (garden hoe), Kama, Sansetsukon, Katana, and Nunti-bo Enough weapons work for you?

the UFC rules aren't 'wimpy' if Royce couldn't have won the match, and by the way he got DOMINATED, what are the differences in the rules? Groin strikes and head butting mainly, not a big enough factor to change the fight into Gracie's favor, oh and his trademark gi, which would easily be used against him nowadays. Royce could never have one this fight, even under rules that dissalowed Hughes from taking it down, working chokes and hitting Royce in the head.

Of course Kyokushin has all those things you've stated, many people don't seem to realize that sosai Oyama was a fourth degree in Judo afterall. But of course everyone also seems to think that all karate if it isn't Kyokushin is simply point fighting. Of course, I believe that all martial arts should have a little more lineancy on competition rules, i.e. if a style has a particular set of techniques that aren't allowed to come out during competition (i.e. throws and grappling in ALL karate) then you need to expand to include those things. (barring of course all those nice finger strikes to the groin, eyes, throat, etc that are to 'deadly' to try out)

Well, most martial arts have limited theirselves due to restrictive competition, I'd say the majority (I know, assumptions) of say, karate schools teach point fighting as their main goal, even though karate's more like a mix of kickboxing and competition judo. When I last was doing judo we'd focus on approximately a third of the class focused on throwing techniques, a third on ground work, and the rest was usually randori. If you get a good book on judo, I'd say look at Dr. Kano's book, (should be in any barnes and noble, if you just wanna browse ) and you'll see many groundwork positions shown, such as scarf hold, side-control, north/south position, other than that you'll see some submisisons such as standing arm-locks, and newaza armlocks, triangle chokes, lapel chokes and the like, techniques people often attribute to being a BJJ thing. BJJ is to judo, as Goju Ryu is to Shorin-Ryu. They'll teach the same things, principles, applications, self-defense, and those are mainly the same thing, it's just that one person's view of what they wanted is different. Helio Gracie for example was always very frail and as such when he'd spar he'd always end up on the bottom, as such Helio's 'brand' of Ju jitsu has more focus on getting the best out of your guard. Now, Carlson Gracie on the other hand always tended to be a bit bulky, and would usually get the top position, as such Carlson's brand of ju jitsu has more focus on staying out of the bottom position and using your body weight to your advantage. Dr. Jigoro Kano however believed that for the most part the biggest focus in self defense would be to execute a perfect throw, which in many cases a good strong throw will disable the average person, and if need be work on your ground game, for the most part in Kano's take on Ju jitsu/Judo (same thing, more on this in a second) meant that you wanted to spend as little time on the ground as possible and get your opponent neutralized. Now, before this get's too long, I'll just state that the Japanese words do and jitsu mean virtually the same thing, path or way, but Do applied to a word usually means something that's artful or peacefull, and jitsu means something that's mainly a war-time craft

"the silent wind of doom.... Otherwise known as the cool head-band thing-ie" Greatest 'making fun of ninja' reference ever.

that's exactly the same stance I've always taken, started out in shorin ryu karate, and since taking up other styles, BJJ and judo notably, those arts actually fell in place quite quickly and I did progress through the ranks quicker than my peers at the schools I was going to. Not to a high rank mind you, but still to a good place for now. BUT mind you this is the exact sentiment many MMA fighters have, Jeremy Horn's primary art is BJJ, Chuck liddel's primary art is Wrestling, so's Matt Hughes', and the list of similarities goes on and on and on. I don't believe someone should hop in the deep end of the pool before learning some kind of way to swim, be it the backstroke or dog paddling (no this is not a way of me saying that one way of fighting (grappling vs. striking) is better, just the only ways to swim I know of). It's all about the workload you as a Martial Artist can take on.

Alright Patusai, interesting. I didn't exactly know that was the case, but it really wasn't much of a suprise, and it saves me from calling up Yamashita sensei to ask. I do however wanna add to the passing down of belts thing, I know that also, like Chibana, before Sensei Matayoshi's death he passed down his personal Gi, belt, and the family weapons (weapons his father had gotten when he learned his art in China) to Yamashita Sensei. It seems like a popular thing to do.

wouldn't even touch Oyama if I had one foot in the grave, a fanatical person when it came to training, great karate, and a fourth degree blackbelt in judo... I would however fight a young, let's say 12 year old, Mas Oyama.

Judo has sweeps from the ground, but the thing is the way competition judo is scored, you never see them used, the ground work can only last a few seconds, 5-10 usually, unless you obviously have some sort of lock on your opponent. Half-guard is something that may be practiced depending on the school, but once again, it's considered a 'weak' position and one that lends itself to your opponent's pinning you. A slight clarification on what I wrote in my last reply, if your opponent passes your guard and your shoulders are on the matt it counts as an ippon I really gotta start proof-reading what I write. From my guard it's very easy, if my opponent is explosive, to get away from my legs and pin my shoulders to the matt, if I fall on my side however, he gets half a point and I get the chance to score on him when we're stood back up. Now I'm aware of a file on Yahoo! video, or the like, where the Gracies are at a judo school that's working ne-waza, and many, many of the judo-ists are using their guard extensively. The video is from 1988 IIRC, a time when no-one in the states knew who the gracies were, and as such, the guard shouldn't have existed in this country . (just try searching for 'Gracies challenge judo school' it should pop right up.)