Hengest

I'm sorry could you re-phrase that it probably makes perfect sense but I miss read it.

 

Please elaborate.

What I mean is, how do you know that site is true? What books or other sources did you use to confirm what it says?

Your argument holds no water whatsoever.

Actually it holds about as much water as the Titanic. You've just missed the point completely. I know what "bushi" means, I speak, read and write Japanese. And you wouldn't use it to describe a martial artist.

First of all, that's not the fantasy, Since you are in Japan now, you can to iga villagle where they have ninja museum there and see what their custom is like.

The Iga village is a tourist attraction and nothing more. It is not a centre of serious academic research. My wife went and said it was the best laugh she's had in years.

I know it may seem like some guys idea of a joke but I have researched it and its all truth, except for one thing, it is:

 

Rin Pyo Toh Sha Kai Chin Retsu Zai Zen, but the site states:

 

Rin Hei Toh Sha Kai Shin Retsu Zai Zen.

What sources did you use to confirm the info at that link?

sigh, The buttom line is they are different, if they are the same, why don't they just called all of them Samurai, or Ninja.

 

If you write samurai in Kanji, it means service person, as men in service, like military man.

 

if you write ninga in kanji it means "person who holds within." or "Perseverance/Endurance"

 

just by the title, it shows that they are very very different.

The meaning of "bushi", i.e. warrior, is quite different from that of "samurai". Does that mean they are seperate from samurai? Of course not.

Apply the same thing in English: "professional soldier" vs. "guerilla fighter". Do they mean different things? Absolutely. Can one be both at the same time? Absolutely.

Your argument holds no water whatsoever.

and another fact is, ususally ninja hide their ninja identity, most ninja won't let others know that they are ninja, that's why alot of time they covered their face.

 

as samurai, they are proud, so they let everyone knows who they are. They dont usually covered their face.

For a start, the whole "ninja weaing masks" thing is probably fantasy anyway. It likely stems from the portrayal of ninja in kabuki theatre. Think about it. If I want to skulk about unnoticed in enemy territory am I going to wear black from head-to-toe or am I going to wear the uniform of the enemy's troops or perhaps the clothes of a merchant or serf that would be in the camp anyway?

Even if the ninja costume is historically accurate, it would have had nothing to do with pride.

I think it's time some people around these here parts put down the Ashida Kim books, switched off the Sho Kosugi movies, and started doing some proper research.

You'll get differing views on krav maga depending on who you speak to and schools you go to, but from what I've seen of it it looks like a pretty good no-nonsense self-defence method.

Comhrac Bas, I'm more reserved about. I've not seen how its techniques work, but I'll tell you this much: it is not what it claims to be (i.e. a Celtic style used by Roman gladiators). That is just pure marketing * and a blatant lie. Who knows though, it might be an effective style. I'd have to leave comment on that to someone who has seen it.

JKD mean "jeet kune do", which is Bruce Lee's combat concept. It is a whole different thing to kali, but kali and JKD are often taught by the same instructor, hence the "/" in my styles list.

See my post on your other thread re kali's techniques.

No don't worry mate. Ask away, we've all gotta start somewhere.

I've only been in kali for about a year and I learn it from my JKD instructor. I'm not really an expert in the style, but I'll tell you what I know.

Kali is a Filipino style, also called eskrima or arnis, which is primarily a weapon-based art. You usually start by learning how to use a single stick around 1.5'-2' in length, then go on to double sticks, knife, knife and stick, and other weapon combos, as well as unarmed techniques. The important thing to learn in kali though is that for all these, movement patterns are the same. You apply the same principles whether you have a stick, knife or nothing at all.

There are few kicks, and what there are are usually low, aimed at the opponents legs. There's a fair bit of grappling and open hand striking and one of kali's trademarks is "gunting". This is a defensive method whereby, rather than blocking, you strike at the opponent's limb as it attacks. And the way Matt Damon flows in his fight scenes in Bourne Identity is very typical of kali's "body in motion" methodology.

Hope that helps. Cheers,

In real life:

 

Keep in ur mind not for u but also everyone in this forum

 

There is no need for us to fight with others

 

As possible as we shud not make the problem as big.

 

We are not learning to defeat or others

 

Else we do then we'll be a rowdy

 

I mean that we shud be quiet even when our opponents attack us

What is so difficult to understand? Those of us advocating pre-emptive striking are NOT saying you should initiate confrontations. Once you are in a confrontation that you cannot get out of, as a defensive measure, hit first. It's that simple.

Once a week is baloney though. It's minimalist (which will get you minimal results) and no physical trainer I know will suggest you work out once a week. Would you practice your martial arts once a week?

A ridiculous comparison. Training MA doesn't ware down the muscles to the point that they need to rest for any more than a day or two. Lifting, when done properly, requires a great deal more rest.

For the record, I never said workout once a week. I said work out each body part once a week. To get maximum instensity in that workout, you will need to split to some degree.

And a minimalist approach does not mean minimal results. Neither does it mean minimal intensity. The workouts you do are hard and that combined with greater rest periods and decent nutrition is where the gains come from. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

ok, how often per body part should i work out if i were to stress the muscles out as much as i physically could?

If you're working that body part heavy enough, I'd say you only really need to hit it once a week.

i guess everyone here is ignoring me but i'll say it again anyway, 3-4 times a week per body part exercised is the way to go. unless you're a professional body builder which i'll bet anything you're not. no offense of course

3-4 times a week per body part?! Way, way, WAY too much! What on earth would you recommend if he was pro?!

from a non-bodybuilding perspective, these serve no purpose. you need compound movements, not isolation movements.

Compound movements are of course the most important, but these exercises are not simply bodybuilding movements. In fact I'll give you 2-1 that most bodybuilders don't even do L-flys. However, they do serve to strengthen the smaller support muscles that are vital to injury prevention and good form. For example, if you're not incorporating L-flys into your routine (or another movement to strengthen the rotator cuff) and you're lifting heavy on overhead presses or pulldowns for instance, you're putting yourself at much greater risk of injury. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say "Whoa, look at the rotator cuffs on that guy!", have you? No. So how can it be a pure bodybuilding exercise?

also I am curious to what the problem is with kickbacks, it's very interesting to me because I have them in my routine (cables)

They put an enormous amount of stress on the elbow, plus, if you're training for strength, they serve little or no purpose.

MA = martial art

TKD = taekwondo (a Korean martial art)

kata = Japanese term for set or series of movements either practiced solo (as in karate) or in pairs (as in judo)

dojo = Japanese name for a martial arts training area; you can be more specific e.g. judojo - judo training hall, kendojo - kendo hall, kyudojo - archery range

kumite - sparring

For The Bourne Identity, Matt Damon trained in both kali and boxing. What you see is a movie-fu combination of the two.

I did have one question. It was mentioned that the routines in the musle magazines are for steriod users. So for us normal people, who just want to get in shape, work out to help are martial arts and any other activites we do, and also try to look decent, lol, how many sets or reps (well for instance I hear Arnold Swartenager likes to do 20 set of various exercises for chest, now we know he does not use steriods, lol) should I shoot for.

 

I mean right now for example, chest I do 4 sets of flat, 3 incline, 3 dips, 3 machine flys. Is that too much, to little, just right? I probably do about the same amout of exercises for my back, legs and shoulders, arms a little less. Thanks.

As you've probably noticed Jay, I'm very minimalist in my approach to weights. I think you'll find that weight training is not an exact science in that different things work for different people. That said, I am of the opinion that probably 80% of people out there lifting weights are over-training to some extent.

For chest, I bench press two or three sets of 8-10 reps once a week, and that's it. (Told you I was minimalist. ) I think dips are also great, but I do those instead of bench pressing rather than in addition to. And I would probably lose the machine flys altogether; if you're not a competitive bodybuilder, I don't think they serve any real purpose.

I take the same approach to most exercises. Overhead press, pulldowns, stiff-legged deadlift, leg curls, bicep curls, L-flys and crunches, I all use roughly the same sets, reps, and training frequency. The main exception is squats (or leg press). I still do that once a week, but instead I do one working set of 20 reps, usually with quite a lot of rest pauses towards the end.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong. I couldn't possibly without seeing how you train and the gains you're making from it. However, I do think that if more people cut back on the amount of training they did, allowing for more rest and recuperation and keeping workouts to the basics, short and sweet, they'd see far more gains than they ever have. I know I did.

Well said ovine king. It's about time all these myths about ninja and ninjutsu were put to rest. Unfortunately, it seems informed people such as yourself are in the minority.

Bench, squat, deadlift? That sounds like you're minimizing to a powerlifting routine.

 

While I'm all for power and compound exercises, adding a few more terms to your weightlifting vocabulary wouldn't hurt. For one, chins are exercises I can't live without. And having some sort of curls wouldn't kill you either, as well as adding in something that focuses on the triceps, which will get hit in your "basic movements", just not as effectively as some would like. Tri extensions, kickbacks, pushdowns, etc; (Don't really need all of them, I'm not trying to confuse you here by saying you need a million isolation exercises) they're all movements that you'll see in martial arts, and shouldn't be without.

 

I agree with not digging into the muscle mag routines, they're useless to anyone who isn't on a gigantic supplement stack or worse yet, as you mentioned, steroids.

It might look like a powerlifting routine as far as exercise selection goes, but not in terms of sets and reps. A powerlifter is going to concentrate on high sets and very low reps, but I wouldn't advocate that here. Two or three sets of 6-10 reps (using weights heavy enough to make that a challenge) is the kind of thing we'd be looking at here for most exercises, IMHO.

This core of basic movements is sufficient to build muscle and strength in large quantities, but there are other "support" exercises you can add. Such movements as leg curls, bicep curls, crunches, back extensions, L-flys, and calf and neck work are all useful if you have the time. I personally don't train triceps in isolation; I find doing your bench press with proper form and weight gives your triceps all the work they need, and it is a muscle very susceptible to overtraining. If you did wish to isolate triceps, I wouldn't recommend kickbacks: they're a quick route to injury. I do agree with you on chins. It's a great exercise that you could use to substitute pulldowns.

One other thing you should watch is your cadence. All movements should be done slow and steady, about a three-count out and in (roughly, don't be too serious about counting; you'll just confuse your rep count). Pumping out those reps at break-neck speed is another way to get injured quick.

Two workouts a week is perfectly sufficient. You can make those both full body but personally I wouldn't recommend it. I prefer to train each bodypart once a week so you get plenty of rest. Don't take too much notice of routines in Musclemag and Flex and all that malarkey; those routines will basically only work for steroid users.

And don't go crazy on exercise selection. Just stick to the basic movements: squat, bench press, shoulder press, pulldown, stiff-legged deadlift. That's all you really need.

I always thought that the set of techniques Lee devised was called Jun Fan gung fu, and that JKD was purely conceptual. That's why I never understood the controversy in the first place. It seems to me the OJKD guys have just got their terminology wrong: OJKD is basically Jun Fan gung fu, JKDC and FJKD are JKD.

Shorin Ryu

Shorei Ryu

Toon Ryu

Goju Kai

Enshin

Ashihara

Shidokan

Daidojuku

Shukokai

Shito Ryu

Wado Kai

Shorinji Ryu

Chito Ryu

However, whether he has a weapon or doesn't, makes little difference when it comes to choosing when to attack.

I agree. Hit first then you don't need to worry about whether he's tooled up or not.

I'm not aware of any mainland Japanese koryu schools that taught the nunchaku, ninja or otherwise. It's a weapon that's found in several Asian styles - Okinawan kobudo, Filipino kali, various kung fu schools - but it doesn't appear to be a weapon you would've encountered in medieval Japan.

I've heard of sikaran and I've heard of karate, but I've never heard of sikaran karate. Is it a combination of the two or is it an alternative name for sikaran?

If it came down to it, and if a lethal weapon was involved, I may make the first move, since the mere presence of the weapon aludes to the attacker's intent.

Not necessarily. There's an old adage about knife-wielding foes: showers don't use and users don't show.

Often, a guy who has a knife and is willing to use it won't produce it before the fight starts. He'll keep it concealed until he's in close and then it's usually too late.

This is exactly why I advocate pre-emptive striking.

Xerxes, that was Hengest's point.... he didn't say that all Americans are backward and stubbord - he was merely pointing out that if the general sweeping statement that you wrote about the Japanese was to be applied to Americans it would have a lot more backlash than your statement about that Japanese has recieved.

 

Please keep this thread on-topic (recommendations of MA-related places to visit in Japan). Thank you.

Thank you aefibird. That's exactly what I was trying to say. It's quickly becoming obvious who's actually backward around here...

Anyway, you're quite right. We should keep this thread on topic. Cheradenine, I've been living in Japan for about five years. I must admit, I'm disgustingly untravelled but one of my favourite places to go is Nikko, in the highlands, a couple of hours from Tokyo. Not strictly speaking martial arts-related, but it has some great temples and scenery and it's also the home to the Nikko Beer brewery, a tiny little operation that makes, IMHO, some of the best beer in Japan.

the Japanease are backward and stubborn and will not change their views on karate. It's a shame really.

I'm not sure what surprises me more: the ignorance of your statement or the lack of flaming you've received for it. I can just imagine the response I'd get if I made the statement that all Americans are backward and stubborn.

As Omega14 said, your statement is pure stereotype and nothing more. When the subject of American karate comes up, I think most MAists probably think of stars-and-stripes dogi, kata done to '80s rock music and five-year-old black belts but it would be grossly unfair to tar all US karate dojo with the same brush. The same goes for Japanese dojo. If you look at the more progressive karate and karate-related organisations that have had any success in recent history, the majority are Japanese: Kyokushin, Seidokan, Shidokan, Daidojuku, Ashihara karate, K-1, etc.