AngelaG

Take out their knees before they get to you, side step and smack to their head etc. If you are any good at your art a wrestler should not be able to get a hold of you before you have knocked him to the floor. Personally I don't think as many fights go to the ground as people make out (I'm talking serious confrontations - not including the schoolyard type brawls). If you ever watch a fight kicking off it usually involves men pushing and shoving at each other... they'll get separated and then one will usually rush in and sucker punch the other. This means that it usually ends up with one person on the floor whilst the other stands up and him (and his mates) kick the cr*p out of the one on the floor! JMHO.

Well I have designed and made 3 websites for MA schools and one for an MA organisation. I designed and maintained the one for my own dojo and therefore I have access to all the stats etc. and I think it does quite well in letting people know we are there. My instructor has also told me that he has had quite a few queries because of the website (he always asks people where they heard about him). I guess it's possibly because of the generation I grew up in but I will automatically search for something on the Internet if I hear about it and have an interest. I guess this attitude will only grow as we progress and the Net gets bigger and bigger. The only MA sites I don't like to see are one's where they are using it to sell overpriced cr*p, or even worse, web based learning at extortionate prices ("Get your black belt with our simple web based scheme"... YUCK!) But like anything else the Internet is just a tool, and it's how a person decides to use that tool that is important!

Does/has anyone's instructor cross trained and used what they have learnt in their other style?

I have trained with this in mind from day one. My sensei also says that there are no specific blocks in kata, everything has an attacking application and I totally agree with him. Not getting hit is a simple concept. Getting hit hurts and puts you in a bad situation - don't get hit!. It’s not that I don’t do "blocks" (although I much prefer to shift to a 45 degree angle and just parry the punch in the direction they are already going. I don’t think that a kata needs to show us that it’s a bad idea to get hit. When I soft block a hook punch it has no tension in it, I just throw my arm out to receive their punch. There is no finesse involved. Sometimes I will hit straight into their arm, sometimes I will continue to sweep it down into their bicep and sometimes I will sweep it back towards me (towards their wrist). Soft block is one of the few things we call a block, but anyone that uses it will know that it is also a strike. If someone really goes for a proper hook punch and you stop if with a soft block it can stop them in their tracks and stop them thinking about a follow up technique. (Although of course you don't depnd on that - follow up until you are 100% positive you are safe!) Age uke may work as an upwards block, but I would prefer to show it as many other applications before I use the block one. The same applies to all the other receiving techniques. There are moves in kata that can be used as blocks but I think that the intention was never there that they were blocks. But I guess that’s the beauty of kata, each move has numerous different working applications. But again I stress that a kata is not showing the most basic concept of shifting and parrying because it shouldn't need to. A kata is a database of effective techniques not an idiots guide to karate! As for gedan barai to block a kick well don't start me on that....! So by all means use an age uke to receive a punch, but I would prefer to shift out of the way of a straight punch, preferably at 45 degrees into them, to take the initiative and then retaliate. A hand may go up to make sure that I don’t get hit, or may slap down on their arm, but I try not to match bone with bone and definitely not strength with strength! It’s a complicated subject I guess because there are so many moves in kata that whenever you move it will probably end up looking like something recognisable.

All kata start with a movement that can be used in a defensive manner, however the same move can also be used more than effectively in an attacking manner!

What does this mean? It doesn’t take much to realise that this does NOT mean that we stand there while someone swings a punch, get hit in the face and then start to fight. No matter how much I train, how fit and strong I get, if a 6’+ attacker hits me in the face I am not going to be in much of a position to fight back afterwards. So where does this lead us? Obviously if someone takes a swing for me I need to block his attack. Then I need to do some form of retaliation immediately after. The type of retaliation would depend on the situation I am in, it’s not always appropriate to do a neck wrench because one of your mates has got a bit rowdy and started to push you around. Sometimes a simple arm bar while you talk them around is the more fitting form of action. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious that something is about to kick off in violent action, even before a single punch has been fired. The problem is that once a punch has been thrown the situation will usually escalate out of control; it’s like a no going back zone. The first step to out and out violence has been taken. Therefore sometimes it may be best to stop a situation before anyone has a chance to hit out. The best way to do this? If you are the catalyst for the event, remove yourself, get away, you may feel your pride has taken a beating but that’s better than your face taking a beating. If you are a born diplomat start to talk them down. A calm, soothing voice can sometimes do wonders. Sometimes though the situation has already started to escalate out of control, perhaps someone has laid their hands on you. Maybe then it is appropriate to retaliate in some way, either be removing the hand or by keeping it and putting it into a lock. If the would be attacker realises that you know what you are doing then they may just think that it’s not worth their while getting involved. If there is no way back, it is obvious a punch will be thrown is it right for a trained karateka to get there first? We train to be fast and react to situations so should we react so fast that they do not even get a look in? In which case we risk being seen as the asgressor, a trained aggressor, and pretty soon karate would be getting a very bad name! Perhaps another way of putting it is that there is no first INTENT towards attack in karate. We do not instigate fights; wherever possible we try to calm situations down. But sometimes there may be a situation where we need to put in the first technique, to avoid getting hurt.

I have previously posted something like this on my forum so apologies to anyone that posts over there but I was hoping for a bit more feedback on this. We should all be looking for ways to improve and develop our art or we run the risk of becoming stagnant and being totally unable to adapt to new situations. We no longer live in feudal Okinawa or post-war Japan, and modern life brings with it new risks and trials. Thugs walk the streets with guns and knives and violent crime for items such as credit cards, mobile phones etc. is on the increase. There is a hazy line as to how much force a person can use in self-defence before they suddenly become the criminal. All these need to be taken into consideration when teaching a Martial Art for the purposes of self-defence. However karate is also founded on tradition. For some, karate is more a way of life rather than a hobby, and the traditional aspect is far more important than the self-defence aspect. Modern life also brings with it a whole new set of stresses. For some going to the dojo to train is a massive stress reliever, it helps them forget about the rigours of every day life and escape from reality for a bit. Sometimes the escapism the dojo life brings is what is needed to help a person chill out at the end of the day. The traditional aspects such as bowing, respect to Sensei are good for instilling good character traits into children. It can build up respect, self-confidence, concentration amongst other qualities. At what point does the need to keep learning and keep evolving conflict with the need to maintain the old traditions that karate is built on? At what point of change are you no longer doing anything that resembles karate? If a Shotokan dojo decides that maybe their stances don’t need to be quite as long, and perhaps they don’t need to spend that much on kata so they can spend more time on sparring, maybe terms should be in English and let’s discard of all that Oriental bowing, and the next minute there is a blurry line in what they are doing; is it Shotokan, is it TKD, is it kickboxing, is it Muay Thai? Are we being arrogant by changing an art that has been developed by the "masters"? I find that people that do karate purely for self-defence reasons tend to have little tolerance for the other aspects of the art. I’ve seen on other forums people asking why we don’t just drop kata, or why do we do something else when it doesn’t help with self-defence. I like to think that there is a bit more to it than that, let’s keep the ART in Martial Arts. Karate should have a little more finesse than the average street fight. On one hand we don’t want to be bogged down in a mire of tradition, so that we can never move on, but on the other hand we need to be careful about preserving the integrity of our art. There are people who dedicate their lives to rediscovering the lost aspects of old karate. If we change it too much we run the risk of having people in the future trying to work out what we dropped and reintegrate it into their syllabuses. Conversely we don’t want the future karateka to have not learnt anything more than we already do, it would be hoped that every generation more information and has evolved, in a positive way, from the previous one.

I do train for self-defence capabilites because even if there's only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance that I may get attacked I'm going to be well annoyed if I study karate and that one little chance happens and I can't fight my way out of a wet paper bag! It would be interesting to see if there are people out there that believe that have removed at traces of 'Martial' from their Martial Art and whether it would still help them or not. I guess though that even something like athletics helps your chances ina street conflict as you can run away faster, and you would have more strength/power... so the moment you embark on any sport you improve you chances of survival!

I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Sounds like an interesting idea - just don't release any cheesy videos lol:

And here is a whole other thread! Personally I agree with you, if you are doing a Martial Art then somewhere along the line you should be learning something that will help you defend yourself were the worst to happen. However I don't think everyone thinks this way, sometimes they are there because the people they like are there, sometimes for physical fitnes, sometimes for the coolness factor ("I do karate" sounds cooler than "I do aerobics", right?). I think that if they don't want to see how their could help them in a real life fight then no matter how good the instructor is they will always be poor at that element. Some dojo do nothing but competition type sparring, these people may not even realise it but if the try and use that stuff on the streets they will get their teeth handed to them in a bag. I think that sometimes it has to do with envirnment as well. I live in a small town, with very little trouble. It can be hard to viualise why I need to train for these vicious assaults if there is only o.1% chance that I will ever get attacked. I do it, but I bet there are people at my dojo that don't consider it in the slightest. Finally, consider that you had suddenly been rocketed up to the moon on your own. Would you still practice your MA? If it's for self defence why bother, there's no one around to assault you! If the answer is yes then I would draw the conclusion that you are doing it for a whole heap more reasons than self-defence!

Thanks. More kata will be coming soon, I've just been really busy over the last few weeks with training, instructing and freelance web design - all on top of my day job!! I'll have a word with some of the guys over the next two day to try and get at least another 3 kata up there!

I know the person who is the representative of this website. He is a poster on another forum. He is a respected and decent guy. Personally I think you can't go wrong here. PM me if you want details.

The problem with this statement is that this is not the old days. We have moved on. We are not in feudal Okinawa, post-war Japan etc. We are in the 21st Century in the Western World therefore basing training on what happened hundreds of years ago would be inappropriate. We no longer have the same worries and drives as people did in those days. Westerners need constant reassurance that they are improving; that they are getting somewhere. We could all sit back smugly and say that if we remove the belt system then only the truly dedicated would stay but what would be the point of that? We would be shooting ourselves in the foot! Do you not think that some of the true great Western masters maybe started and continued to stay because of the drive that the great feeling of grading gave them? Do you not think that maybe there would be one of two less great Masters out there if in their very early days it had all been made to hard and too serious for them. Let people have their fun and see if they want to build their passion and dedication around that later. The entire Western culture is built on Commercialism. Why should karate be any different? Should every karate teacher be teaching out of their garage and for purely altruistic reasons, for the warm fluffy feeling it gives them knowing that they are giving something to society? This is a false premise; even people that change lives every day teachers, doctors, nurses, fireman, and police do it for wages. If you want to teach karate full time then somewhere along the line you are going to have to work out where you can make some money – whether the monthly premium is higher or you charge a bit more on the gradings - money for rent, insurance, equipment, overheads needs to come from somewhere and on top of that you need to make a wage (and a wage for whomever you have working under you). People should not be made to feel guilty just because they want to set up a for-profit dojo. Ok there are people out there abusing the system by charging stupid amounts for training etc. but at the end of the day everyone pays what they are willing to pay for their tuition. For example, if my tuition was to suddenly sky-rocket to £100 a month I would have to decide whether I thought it was worth it for me. Is the enjoyment, fitness benefits etc. worth that price to me. I might say no, the person next to me may say yes. Of course if prices are suddenly raised too high the students can always vote with their feet, what makes more money 100 students at £20 a month or 5 students at £100 a month? Again there is nothing wrong with making money out of karate. After all it is a hobby. Think about the football industry, it makes millions every year. I only support my cruddy local team but 2 home games a month would be pretty much the same as I pay for a whole months training… and that’s before you take into account their little money-makers, the merchandise, the food, the club pub. But no one ever thinks a football manager is corrupt when they make their team make money. Secondly what is wrong with a little recognition for one’s achievements? Ok there should definitely not be an air of “Look at me, I’m great” but a self-congratulatory pat on the back and the respect from your peers for an achievement well done is not such a bad thing. Everything in balance, a balance of self-respect and humility against being able to be proud of what one has achieved after putting in years of hard work! Anyone can get their butt kicked. Anyone can be sucker punched. Not everyone is doing MA for self defence. What about other achievements? Weightloss, character building, self-confidence building, being able to kick as high as your head, being able to do 100 push ups. Your goals are not the same as my goals and it would be wrong of you to impose your goals on anyone else. In the same way my achievements are mine only and may not mean anything to the person down the road. Personally I believe that if I get in a fight at all I have ‘failed’, even if I hand my opponent’s butt to them on a plate. The very fact that I have put myself in a situation where I need to use karate and all my training has not helped me to avoid a fight has meant that I have failed. But there are other people who measure their success on how many people they can injure in another street fight on a Saturday night. Therefore you cannot judge what will disillusion one person. If they are willing to let negative thoughts build instead of using the experience and learning from it then that is just the type of character they are, and if it wasn’t one thing it would be another! Firstly, you are treating people as though they are stupid again. The point is that your apple in front of the mule analogy is a bad one as we are not dumb animals. I said that a 10th kyu isn’t engrossed in the finer details not that they weren’t interested in getting a black belt. I think that the majority of people start with the intention of getting a black belt. But at 10th kyu it all seems so far away, you may be told that it’s a minimum of X years. You look up at the black belts doing their stuff and looking so good and you look back at yourself barely able to make a stance and you think you’ll never get that good. To have a black belt on the wall what does this do? Simple it shows them that this goal is achievable after all. There is nothing wrong in showing a white belt what it is possible to achieve. Then the mid kyu days; you seem to have been training for so long and yet you are still mid kyu ranks. Stuck in a Martial Arts No-Mans-Land. These are the times when you need a reminder that you’ve come so far and you still have a way to go, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And what do we gain from these people leaving? As for the OP and gradings before getting to black belt I think that people need to realise that there is much more to it than skill. If you were naturally talented at karate would it be right for you to be able to pick up a black belt in 6 months? IMO no. At which point has this kind of person been tested? Being a black belt is about more than doing fancy twirling kicks and being a top notch athlete. Other aspects need to be tested: Dedication – If it takes you 4 years to get there will you carry on? Effort – just because a natural athlete can kick to head level does not mean you should forget about the person with bad legs who can only kick to waist level but puts in 100% every time! Maturity – if you are not put in for a grading, or fail a grading are you able to realise that it is a minor hurdle and that you need to dust yourself off and carry on? I could go on… Total skill? Skill in what? A grade is not really transferable. Definitely not from club to club but even inter-club. Some clubs will grade on the more competition side, some of the more self-defence side and some on the more effort/time put in side. If someone from a more SD club was to attend a competition club their skill based on the clubs subjective judgment would be poor. But they could be top dog in their own club. Inter-club – a 20 year old male at the peak of his physical fitness would not be judged at the same level as a 50 year old female. They both need to put in maximum effort but their so called ‘skill level’ will be no where near each other. Therefore should she be less proud when she grades because she has not got the same amount of skill? Of course not… grade is subjective. If people leave that’s their choice. You cannot make assumptions, you just have to teach everyone the best you can and hope you have made it fun enough, interesting enough, useful enough that they will stay after they get their shodan. If they don’t decide to stay though, so what? As long as the instructor knows that they have taught to the best of their abilities then they have nothing to be ashamed of if people drop out. Everyone has different goals. Some people may decide to train until they get fit, and then leave. Some people may decide that once they get their shodan their goal has been achieved and move on to other things. Some people’s goals may be making it a part of their lifestyle and being the best karateka that ever walked this earth. The point is that some people never intend to do it forever, and if the black belt wasn’t there they would just find another place to finish their training. Yes the repetitions of serious training can be boring but to become good it has to be done. Therefore something to show why we are doing these things over and over again can be a good thing. Your assumption is false. The black belt does not make people leave. They were going to leave anyway, the desire to reach black belt just prolonged their stay. So what? It’s their choice. How does that affect you? It’s better for them to leave and have the enthusiastic people stay isn’t it? If there is an air of enthusiasm it will permeate through the dojo and help drive everyone. Also would you rather train with someone who is a high grade but doesn’t want to be there, or a lower grade who is giving it their all? As I have said before there are always people ready to make a quick buck. That does not mean that the whole idea is corrupt. Everyone has a price they are willing to pay. If I pay £3000 for my black belt testing but in my eyes I am happy with that price, and I am satisfied with the overall result have I been conned out of money? If I knew the price beforehand but was prepared to pay it that is my lookout, no one else’s. I’m not saying it’s necessarily right for people to charge that but on the other hand if there are people out there willing to pay it you will always find people willing to charge it. It’s a fact of life. If you don’t want to pay that then do your research and go and find someone that does charge a price you are willing to pay. At the end of the day either way you could end up with a black belt around your waist and the only person it truly means anything to… is you! That is why you are paying money for your black belt… not for your instructor... not for your parents… not for Gichin Funakoshi, but for you. Find somewhere that does what you want at a price you are willing to pay and go for it! Rank is subjective. Never make the mistake of comparing the validity of your grade with anyone else’s because the nub of the matter is that the only person that your belt should matter to is yourself. Do I care whether you got a black belt after 20 years training, in a Shaolin temple, on top of a mountain through wind, rain and snow, or whether you picked it up for £2 down the local sports store? Not really, all I see at first is two black belts. Until I get to know you as a person and see you demonstrate your skills I cannot pass judgement on you or on your grade. Black belts. A great motivator, a fantastic tool within the martial arts industry but still to be taken with a pinch of salt? Sure but wouldn’t it be nice if everyone believed in black belt excellence! My hands hurt!

Do you never, ever go to bars?

47MartialMan I don't mean this to sound rude but I'm not sure quite how else to phrase this. You appear to think that everyone should have achieved perfection of character. People are driven by grade and if grade was abolished there would be other systems in place that would end up doing the same thing! People aren't perfect, yeah the most important thing at 10th kyu is getting rid of that white belt, everything else is secondary. So what? Karate (MA) is an ongoing thing there's plenty of time to worry about the finer details and working on one's character. A 10th kyu isn't engrossed in the finer details of the art because all they can fret about it the big stuff! You aren't worrying about whether the timing in the kata would be better as 12...3 or 123 because you're too busy trying not to fall over when you do the odd turns. I think when you are working towards a grading all you can worry about is getting the moves down, maybe knowing the bunkai... there is no time for tweaking and making it your own. Remember Shodan is beginner. If you go into too much depth before you get there then a black belt would take forever and you'd be done once you get there. So my point would be, so what if rank is the issue. I know students (children and adults) are proud of achieving their next grade? Should they be ashamed of feeling good about this? No! Your martial art should be your love and be fun, why should we feel guilty for having some fun? Work hard, train hard but enjoy yourself and if you want to celebrate getting your next belt then knock yourself out. Remember you have to treat adults like adults, if they are being conned out of money then it is not your place to be the grading police, they have to make their own decisions about whether to leave or not! As I've said before some people will always find some way of extracting money out of other people it doesn't mean the system's corrupt, it means the person is corrupt!

Congratulations!

Why slow sparring? If you have control you should be able to spar at a faster speed. If you don't have control you need to work on it. You need to master your own body before you can master someone elses!

I have to disagree with this. I think the more different they are the easier it is because the two are separated in your mind. If the two arts are too similar then during lessons the mind will start crossing over (such as when kata are similar - starting Heian Godan ending in Bassai Dai etc.) If I was to train in another style of karate I would find it much harder as in one lesson I'd need long stances and in the other higher stances, plus I would come to it with a load of preconceptions (I'm not a beginner I've been doing shotokan karate for x amount of years etc.). If I was to take up Judo I would come to it with a beginners mind and it would be totally new to me so I think I would learn more effectively.

I personally think the biggest reason that people don't like children is the martial arts is ego. Some people see that if their is a child who is the same grade (or higher) than them then it mocks their own grades and achievements. What I think though is that people are not seeing the bigger picture. Martial Arts is supposed to be for everyone. We have several threads on here about disabled people practicing martial arts and when these people grade they will be graded on their own terms. If someone comes to MA later on in life they will be graded with that in mind, would it ever be fair to expect a 60 year old to have to be exactly the same as a 20 year old? At the end of the day does it matter if you have a black belt 13 year old? It doesn't take away from your own hard work and dedication and everyone has to understand that the person wearing the belt has been graded to that standard under their own terms. People should concentrate more on their own training and less on everyone around them.

No! (yuck!) I like my dogi to be the traditional white, clean and ironed. I think all the multi-coloured gi look stupid. (JMHO)

Yeah but do you expect a 10th kyu to really be engrossed in the training and the finer points of the art? Let's face it, half the time at that rank you are busy trying to make a stance without falling over. At that point even the 8th kyus look pretty awesome to you (They know 3 kata? WOW! ) It would be nice to think that by the time you get up to the higher kyus that you are belt chasing less, but IMO the time you truely stop being so worried is when you get your black belt, after all at that point you are no longer being given a different kata every few months and you can finally go back and study your old stuff in a little bit more detail and start to make it your own. One of the main problems is that the whole syllabus can often be geared towards the gradings, if the student has nothing else to entertain their mind all they will be thinking about is the next grade so that they can move on and learn new things - make the lessons interesting for all grades and this will happen less.

I don't wear sparring gear. I did buy some a year of so ago but have never worn it, and it was just whatever was going at the time on eBay.

I'd always recommend eBay. I have bought nearly all of my MA gear off it!

AAAH! I see! Thank you for your help!

It's a sad fact of life... you will always find some unmentionable that wants to con peoples' hard earned cash away from them. It'll happen anywhere where money crosses hands!