Gumbi

Promote yourself to 10th degree black belt.

In judo, the idea is to get a perfect throw to get a full point and win the match (pinning can do this as well). There are lesser points given out for throws/takedowns which do not meet the criteria for a perfectly executed throw. One of them is that your opponent HAS to land on his back. Doubles and singles are relatively easy to turn out of and land on your stomach, and I believe that if you grab a leg for a single, you've only got so much time to execute a move before you have to release the grip. Although I think the European style of Judo is pretty interesting- they use alot of pickups and when they dump their opponent, they do so on his back.

Have you looked into this particular school? It just may be the worst martial arts school- EVER. Of course theres nothing wrong with making a profit on what you teach, but if what you teach isnt what you claim it to be, thats a different story altogether. As far as people paying what they think its worth bear in mind that the majority of the public does NOT know a whole lot about fighting and martial arts- its VERY easy to decieve people and by telling them you can make them high and mighty, anyone will pay anything for that. But the fact that hes got a nice car or anything like that means nothing- I know of a TKD school around me that has close to 300 students at $79 a month- completely affordable for anyone and plenty of money for him. Theres nothing wrong with that.

Theres a such thing as grappling on the feet you know? In fact it could be helpfull for the reason that you dont like to fight on the ground (grappling training will help you avoid being taken down and also help you get back up should you end up on the ground). Grappling doesnt always mean groundfighting and when I think of the best ways to severely injure an attacker, I think of knees and throws- a good judoka slamming someone on the concrete does a good job of taking the fight (and their conciousness) away. Beyond that, Boxing is great for standup, and it isnt self defense oriented. You'll be hard pressed to find someone who's got better hands than a boxer Muay Thai in my opinion is the best striking system you can learn simply because it incorporates knees, elbows, kicks, and punches (and also teaches clinchwork). Its also not self defense oriented and simply training in it will harden your body like no other.

We're waiting on our $20 bribe

Excellent points, its great that some people realize that UFC and many other MMA tournaments favor strikers over grapplers. Lets not forget the use of gloves allows fighters to punch as hard as they want without fear of breaking their hands (which is a very strong advantage). Im not saying that grapplers are invincible, but I do believe that grappling ability is the most important aspect of a fight.

People are crosstraining now, of course its going to be more difficult to catch a submission hold. Goes too with grapplers who can stand with strikers and not get knocked out. It really does just make circles- you argue that fighters need to go back to basic striking and that was a trend in the UFC a few years back. During that time, strikers would learn how to sprawl and survive on the ground in order to keep the fight on the feet. The grapplers in turn learned how to strike to survive on the feet. I personally think the trend now is fighting from the clinch- that seems to be the place where fights are won and lost in today's MMA, and its entirely up to you if you decide to work takedowns from there or striking with the knees and elbows.

Judo does involve groundwork, theres no denying that, but I kinda agree with your statement in comparing that to throws in BJJ. Groundwork is obviously more emphasized in Judo than throws are in BJJ and there are some Judokas who are pretty good in the ground fight. I think the idea still stands though- BJJ for groundwork, Judo for throws.

Kinda difficult to find a style that covers "everything" - the instructor is GOING to have a preference for standup or ground, even if he is crosstrained. I guess a good style to train in for you that has almost everything would be pancrease or shootfighting. Shootfighting I believe is like a mix between Judo and kickboxing. I THINK punches to the face on the feet arent allowed, and no strikes are allowed once you go to the ground. I dont know of many high kicks or flying kicks taught in this style Pancrease is something similar in that you're taught how to fight on your feet and on the ground, but once again there is no high flying kicks involved. Muay Thai is a good style that teaches just about every strike you'd want to know, and it also teaches you how to do it in the clinch as well. High kicks certainly arent emphasized as much as low kicks are, but when your opponent is dragging on in a fight, theres no better kicker to take his head off. Once again though, no flying kicks. No ground work is taught either. Kyokushin Karate is a style that has some Thai influence, but is still clearly a different style. Competitions are full contact (and I believe bareknuckle), but punching to the face is illegal. Since hitting the face with fists isnt allowed, getting your leg up there is always a good way to compensate for that. There is also emphasis on low kicks (which many karate style neglect) and you'll probably see more head kick ko's in a kyokushin tourny than anywhere else (and I do mean ko's). Far as I know, theres no flying kicks. No ground work is taught either.

I guess I'll add a bit more to the topic: I've also heard that Ju Jutsu is the "correct" spelling, but as someone mentioned, the translation from Japanese the English isnt a perfect one- I believe spellings of Ju Jutsu and Ju Jitsu are both consider acceptable. I believe the Gracies misinterpreted their spelling as "Jiu Jitsu" but even after they figured it out, they didnt change it for whatever reason. I use Ju Jitsu when reference to any type of Japanese Ju Jitsu- I use Jiu Jitsu when any reference to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

It is entirely possible to do high resistance self defense training to escape from holds and such. As far as weapons defense, I cant say I focus alot on that, since many of the things I see are impractical. I think maybe the best way to learn how to defend against a particular weapon is to learn off those who use it the most- if I wanted to know how to defend from knife attacks, I'd ask someone whos a knife fighter, etc.

I dont exactly get what you're asking here: what legal actions are possible from a street fight? what are common techniques used by people against you? what do you do if you fight more than one? Care to elborate a bit more?

Under age 16 has white, yellow, orange, and green belts- typically, if a kid is a good green belt by the time hes 16, he can get his blue.

Well, an ultimate style would be combining the specific strengths of other styles, but then it ceases to be one style.

Dont get me wrong- I agree 100% with you- I just didnt want it to seem like we were writing off wrestling so easily you know?

The latest street fights video I bought- if I remember correctly- EVERY fight went to the ground. Now, when I say that I dont mean that someone shot in for a takedown or went to the clinch for a hip throw. But let me ask if you would agree on these 2: 1: hits that stun are more common than hits that knock someone down (as in, a good shot gets through and dazes the person, but doesnt knock them down) 2: knock downs are more common that straight knockouts When someone takes a good shots and gets put on the ground, usually (in a serious fight) the puncher looks to take advantage of it and stomp him into the ground, or follow him down and pound him. When someone catches a good shot that dazes them, they're likely to clinch- not because they're thinking "takedown!" or anything like that, but because they dont want to get hit- so its either stay too far away or stay too close. Now, its not to say that grappling would have won every guy the fight, but it certainly could have helped him alot more I didnt think you were- its a discussion forum- lets discuss Well, fights certainly go to the ground, but I think what you're trying to say is that you're certainly not doomed if it is. Certainly I've seen fights where a person's gotten knocked down as was able to regain his feet, keep fighting, and sometimes even win. I think the whole concept of convincing people that fights go to the ground (at one point or another of the fight) is for people who say "when would you use this stuff?" So, by showing the fight hits the ground at some point in the fight you can prove there is a point in a fight where grappling is very applicable and you can take advantage of what your opponent doesnt know and win the fight at that point. Very true, once you crosstrain, the decision to stand and strike or take the fight to the ground is entirely up to you with neither being "wrong" or "right"

I wouldnt downplay wrestling THAT much- while BJJ normally wins the style wars, the ability to take someone down and put them on their back is quite effective. Remember when you're sparring with them, you're fighting with rules that favor jiu jitsu (since subs arent taught in wrestling). Strikes on the ground can do well to mix up the fight a bit.

1: yes most fights WILL go to the ground- go buy yourself ANY Dvd of street fights at your local mall and see how, in fact, every one practically goes to the ground. To be fair though, most fights start standing up. 2: There is an INCREDIBLE difference between Japanese Ju Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu- dont incorporate all jiu jitsu into one. 3: If you're facing multiple opponents, you're in trouble no matter what you know (or what you THINK you know). Often people dont WANT to go to the ground, but fights dont happen they way we want them to- they're chaotic by nature and there will be a clinch which most often ends up falling down. If you dont want to be on the ground, your training in grappling will enable you to either avoid being taken down yourself, or allow you to protect yourself should you get taken down (and recover back to your feet if you prefer). I would suggest a practical style that teaches you effective hand combinations and participates in live hard contact sparring. Avoid anything that claims to teach you deadly strikes that no one can survive. For striking: boxing and/or muay thai (i'd suggest thai first) For grappling: Wrestling (if possible) Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, and Sambo

Well, the ultimate art would be crosstraining itself- who better to teach you to throw a punch than a boxer whos ONLY trained in that their ENTIRE life- who better to teach you takedowns than a wrestler whos trained ONLY that their entire lives? So, taking someone whos crosstrained in 3 styles (say, BJJ, wrestling, and muay thai) and having them teach all 3 isnt as effective as training under a muay thai champion, bjj champ, and wrestling champ. That being said, I'd say that BJJ has the best ground work, Freestyle Wrestling is great for takedowns (Greco Roman would be a great add on for great clinch work). Boxing/Muay Thai would take care of the standing battle (along with some nice elbows and knees from the clinch).

Mixed Martial Arts is generally seen as No Holds Barred Fighting (or training for it). It includes all aspects of a fight, but whichever martial arts you use to train for those aspects of a fight is entirely up to the practicioner. MMA usually also suggests that the fighters have effectively combined elements of the different styles into their own (i.e. using a punch to set up the clinch).

Original Post: "* Our fine motor coordination is minimized. What's left is only gross motor skills. Many of the techniques taught in many martial arts schools and self defense programs require pinpoint targeting or wrist or joint manipulation. This probably isn't going to happen under a strong adrenal rush. " EXCELLENT POST- This is what I try to convey to people who claim about using eye gouges and numerous other pressure point techniques in a fight. Its also nice to point out that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu's techniques rely on gross motor movement as opposed to fine motor movement.

I used to be impressed by all types of locks, pressure points, and holds when I did karate, tang soo doo, etc etc. I even thought it was possible to fight like Steven Seagal does in movies with standing joint locks- now Im a much more down to earth and practical guy, and just about all of the pressure point examples I've seen were horrible. It was a joke- watch "Coming to America" with Eddie Murphy, James Earl Jones and Arsenio Hall- its a line from the movie.

I heard those guys charge outrageous rates- I heard one college student say they charged close to $400 a month, which is double what I pay for training in BJJ (which as far as I know is the most expensive MA). Even Renzo Gracie's school in NYC is seen as expensive (since its Renzo, and its New York) and its still half of that West Wind school.

Judo has very little ground work usually only when compared to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Judo is very good for clinch work, and if you're doing alot of in-fighting with Wing Chun, you're bound to find yourself in a clinch- knowing a throw or two would benefit you. Judo does give a real good grappling base, but there are a few flaws in the ground work. I'd start with Judo, and then make the transition to BJJ once you've got a good base. As far as BJJ guys being ego maniacs, well that simply depends on who you're talking to-I know the thing that I (along with many other BJJ praticioners) appreciate is that moves are proven to us- often you'll have your instructor say "you know what Im doing and what I want- stop me." I have yet to see any other style that does that.

Im just trying to convey an idea- Im not trying to be argumenative or degrade you at all, but simply put, when someone is in punching range, they're generally also in kicking range as well. I never said Wing Chun sucks or that it doesnt work. All I was trying to suggest was that you think objectively about ranges- for instance, when Vovchanchyn fought Cro Cop, there was a considerably height advantage, yet punches and kicks were delivered from the same ranges (and often combined).