Gumbi

Fast moving, strong, tournaments, people your level..... I think you'd like either submission wrestling or BJJ. Natrually you're getting biased answers from everyone here. Most strong guys dont like BJJ (fighting with the gi) because they can be more easily controlled than without the gi (submission wrestling). Submission wrestling tournaments are generally divided up according to age (18-29, 30-35, etc) weight (usually every 10 lbs) and then again by experience (less than 6 months, 6 mon-1 year, 1-2 years, 2-5 years, pro). BJJ tournaments have the same divisions, only instead of experience you're divided by your belt level. Its fast, physically demanding, and theres SO much to learn. And if you're worried about whether or not you wrestling in high school/college these competitions take this into account. You cannot fight in divisions where skill level is less than 1 year if you wrestled high school or college. 4 years of wrestling is 4 years of grappling.

My instructor does alot of work for the US armed services, and he used to be a Ranger too I believe. They learn BJJ, but learn simple moves. Such an example would be learning say 1 or 2 throws which can then be followed up with one or 2 fatal techniques (chokes for instance). But, once you've thrown your enemy to the ground, you have the time to reach for your k-bar or sidearm. Its not heavily addressed simply because hand to hand doesnt happen often in war.

"Minuscule lower body submission: Experienced Shootfighters can end the fight against the BJJ elite at a moment's notice. Allan Goes' ankle was badly broken by Frank Shamrock in a Pancrase match. Goes was lucky the referee gave him an escape since he was too close to the edge of the ring. After the cast was taken off his ankle, Goes became determined to master the lower body submission game" This was old BJJ fighters, and lower leg subs were obviously a weakness, however this is not the case anymore. Take into account how many Pancrase/Shootfighters have fought and lost to BJJ fighters. The numbers are heavily lopsided in favor of the BJJ fighter. "The overwhelming odds of winning (in a street fight)are in favor of he who strikes first, strikes fast, and strikes hard. " This is obvious, but ironically he just proved the effectiveness of BJJ- BJJ assumes that the person you are fighting is bigger, stronger, and faster than you are. He will therefore be able to strike first, strike fast, and strike hard- moreso than you. Show me a standup style that would have enabled someone the size of Royce to defeat someone the size of Ken Shamrock- who was the #1 ranked shootfighter in the world at the time. Pat Smith was a top ranked kickboxer at the time and a much better striker than ken, yet he still lost rather quickly in their fight.

"Training predominantly with a gi in BJJ has become a detriment: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is excessively dependent on clothing to hold, reverse and submit. Since most contestants in NHB do not wear a gi, Jiu Jitsu loses a part of its potency" True, BJJ loses a little of its potency simply because there isnt as many handles, however, hes missing the idea of training with the gi on. Using a gi teaches someone the most vital part of fighting- protecting your neck. With so many choke holds, you learn how to protect you neck REAL fast. You're also used to people grabbing you all the time and using your clothing against you. I can tell you that going to no gi is pretty easy because people can no longer control my legs when I go for triangles and arm bars. Using the gi also works to give its fighters incredible grips (anyone notice its a little hard to break out of Nogueira's grips?) because they use grips all the time. Also, because there are so many moves, your mind is racing with tons of possible reactions to whatever an opponent does- fewer techniques simplifies this a little, therefore its pretty easy to adapt to no gi and flow from one move to the next. "Belfort was also concerned about the 300+ lb. of baggage Ferozzo brought with him to the Octagon. Therefore, size, strength and lack of the opponent's clothing caused an unprecedented divergence in a top BJJ fighter's strategy" It was BECAUSE of Jiu Jitsu training that Belfort had this option (along with his quick as hell hands). Jiu Jitsu isnt ALWAYS about ground fighting- its about positioning- and belfort simply opted to stay behind him and pummel him to death. "The BJJ guard has lost its effectiveness in NHB: Royce Gracie's mastery in fighting on his back gave everyone an erroneous illustration of the guard and its true limitations." Well, hes smoking crack- yes the guard isnt as effective as when Royce used it because no one knew you could be on your back and win. I think the fact that people have to learn submissions now to AVOID them as well as learn how to fight the guard game is a testemant to how powerful a position it is. This guy must have missed almost every skilled groundfighters fights in MMA. Nog/Busta/Fedor/Silva anyone? "In UFC 2, Ken Shamrock tapped the canvas quickly against Royce, but managed to stay in Royce's guard for 35 minutes during their rematch in UFC 5." Ken attacked Royce in UFC 1 and Royce defended and made the transition. Ken DIDN'T attack in UFC- all he did was lay on top of Royce and do NOTHING AT ALL. Lets not forget that Ken had a solid 40 lbs on Royce. Bottom line was he could not hurt Royce. "Takedowns are not adequately addressed in BJJ: The prevailing philosophy has been that going to the ground is the goal, and how you get there is of less importance." Agreed "Conditioning: BJJ tournaments are a great medium for improving dominant position skills, but conditioning for NHB tournaments requires a vastly different training regimen. In BJJ, participants can and often fight in spurts since the threat of bodily harm from strikes is nil. If a fighter has a good guard, he can lay back and take a breather once in a while, using a minuscule amount of effort warding off his opponent's attempts at passing the guard. Nowadays, in NHB, passing the guard is of infinitesimally less importance than striking your opponent from inside his guard" Once again, a skilled BJJ fighter CAN still rest when he has guard in NHB- same examples as used before- and they've ALL done it

Jiu Jitsu was made by tall and skinny people FOR tall and skinny people. Whats so great about BJJ is that theres SO many techniques that EVERYONE regardless of their body type has potential to have a very deadly game. Im a tall skinny guy myself and Im quite flexible. This helps me when Im working on my triangles and when my opponents try to pass my guard. It also helps me when you do moves requiring leverage of your entire body (say throws for instance). Lacking in strength compared to the other guys can be seen as a disadvantage, but I look at it as an advantage- I cant pull moves off with strength, so Im FORCED to rely on technique much more than the other guys are. There are disadvantages too, but hey, lets stay positive here =)

BJJ is mainly about grappling and ground fighting, but to say that Japanese Ju Jitsu is more striking and trapping is too vague a statement. As I understand there are many schools of the Traditional Ju Jitsu, and each one has its particular niche in fighting. (i.e. some style focus heavily on throws, others more on ground fighting, and then even some which are primarily striking)

I think many people have a misconception about grappling in fights. First thing that really needs to be addressed- sometimes you do not have a choice as to whether or not the fight goes to the ground- it just happens. Take into account boxing and kickboxing- how many times do you see a clinch occur? Now, if that ref isnt there to break them up, they're most likely going to fall down (one of them is). People talk about multiple attackers and such and say going to the ground is a BAD idea. For the most part, YOU'RE RIGHT- if you go to the ground you're going to get stomped and pounded. But lets look at it from another perspective- who's more qualified at RESISTING the takedown- a guy who trains extensively in grappling and is therefore very aware of takedowns, or a striker who has no idea of what even a double leg takedown is. In other words, if you want to keep the fight standing, sometimes its best to know grappling so that you can break off the clinch when your opponent attempts it. Also take into account that just about every person who you'll fight has a vague notion of how to throw a punch, and strength can help out a lot there, but how many people know how to escape an opponent once they're put on their back? And if I hear another person say "oh for multiple oppenents, just kick guy #1 in the knee and break his leg, groin kick the other guy and drop him to his knees, and then its one on one" I just might have to *expletive* kill someone. Seriously, that sounds like a great plan, it really does, and I wish it worked, as it was thought to be a good theory until it was soundly put to rest in MMA competitions. Best advice I heard for multiple opponents is just try to bulldoze your way through one. If you succeed, keep running straight through him and AWAY from the others. As for people who say "NEVER go to the ground in a street fight" the only reason they say that is because they dont know what to do. I do, and am therefore perfectly comfortable on the ground.

I think it would be sexy to find a girl who's good build, in good shape, and a devout Muay Thai practicioner. Then we could have challenge matches in the bedroom........

You cant really escape any submission hold- once the submission is sunk in, you're already too late, and every grappler will tell you this. The key is to stop it BEFORE your opponent gets that far. For example, when you watch Abu Dhabi, Worlds, or Pan Ams, you dont see the best guys in the world escaping submissions, you see them escaping positions- they're already a step ahead of the game.

First off, thanks for the clarification JohnnyS. Second off, Wolverine, you had mentioned before that you dont get to train very often with BJJ guys, so would I be correct in assuming many of the guys you train with arent advanced guys? They are most likely doing the technique wrong, and you are probably a better grappler than they are. Its like a guys first class in BJJ and he says "hey, I learned an armbar today!" Suppose one of his friends says "that * dont work cause you just pull your arm out of it." A technique is only good if its applied correctly.

Agreed, it is, but coming straight from the Judokas that teach at my school, Judo uses more power than does Jiu Jitsu (perhaps because of the objectives in either- it requires much less strength to choke someone for the win than it does to throw them to the ground). Even take for instance the ground fighting in Judo- its very aggressive and very wild so as to keep moving so the refs don't stand you back up.

It sounds as if you're describing a sleeve choke or ezekial choke (I dont know what the Judo name is for it). All in all though, you're probably better off avoiding general headlocks for the sake that it leaves your back vulnerable. Wrestling headlocks work well against inexperienced people, and Judoka's use it to pin people often (say, after a nice uchimata).

If you use the other technique, you can escape before he even has the chance to choke you =)

Always remember that going into any tournament, you're not the only one experiencing these emotions- you're nervous, but so is your opponent. Had alot of fights to get to the finals, so you're tired, but so is your opponent. Before I fight in a tournament, I never watch anyone else's fights, so as to avoid getting caught up in the excitement. I go to the corner, warm up, and relax.

Your shoulder is NOT on a carotid artery, its on your ear and it doesnt represent a danger to being choked. Once you put your shoulder up you CAN NOT BE CHOKED FROM THAT SIDE and you will not be able to go for an arm triangle choke either. If you should attempt to choke me from the other side once I do this defense, I simply switch arms. I' ll see if I cant find any pictures of exactly what Im talking about, but trust me, this is coming from 3 grapplers who happen to be the best in the world.

Hehe, well I can give you my favorite strategy for Jiu Jitsu tournies. I come out slaping my jacket, pulling up my sleeves, and standing very upright looking like a Judo player. A lot of times my opponents see this and play a careful standup game- then as soon as I get my grips, I pull guard =). Wont work in Judo cause they penalize you for that though....

Come on man, Judo doesnt use strength? Judo uses an AWFUL LOT of strength. Don't get me wrong though, the idea is to off-balance your opponent so he doesnt have all of his strength. Sorta like, suppose his strength is 8 and yours is 6. You off balance him and he loses half his strength making him a 4. Then you, at that point, are stronger than him. Thats when you put all the strength you have into that throw, thereby launching him to the mat. If I were to rank which styles strength means more in I would say that strength means the absolute most in wrestling and the least in Jiu Jitsu with Judo being the middle ground. The only reason why I rank them this way is because of the objectives in each of the styles. In wrestling you cant win from your back, so everyone is pushing for top and you know it. In Judo, the idea is to throw someone and anyone who does standup grappling (takedowns) knows its physically demanding and very exhausting and after awhile (length of Judo black belt matches = length of BJJ white belt matches). In BJJ one can fight from his or her back and still be winning the match. So, for the original post, I like to use guard to fight larger opponents- many big guys are very hard to take down, but easy to sweep. That being said, most big guys arent very good once you put them on their back.

I guess I'll have to go tell Royler Gracie, Xandre and Saulo Ribeiro that their back escapes and rear naked choke defenses are incorrect..... Seriously, I dont think you're still understanding whats being said. The bicep is pretty much touching your ear, you CAN NOT get your arm between my arm and ear and therefore can not strangle me on that side. If your opponent switches sides, so do you, but you should already be working on an escape once you've started to protect your neck. If all you do is protect, you're doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable.

You stick your arm up there and you set your self up for an arm triangle choke or an arm bar. Not to mention, there are variations of the rear naked which hook the arm in case it is defended that way. My two cents. No you wont because your opponent is on your back- this is standard defense against a rear naked choke- triangles generally come from guard, mounted, and cross side positions. As for hooking the arm, you're thinking of someone attempting to flair their arms out as if put in a full nelson- this is not the case- there is no space between your arm and your head (therefore defending your neck).

This is true if the person isnt shown how to apply the blocks. There is a difference between how the blocks are taught in kihon and the application in sparring/self defence. Im talking about almost every block in the karate arsenal. Probably the worst is the low block, most likey to defend against leg kicks, along with the side to side. I think its just rediculous to block kicks (low kicks) with your hands. Not only will you break your arm, you leave yourselfl open for a follow up punch as well.

I personally cant stand any school that would have fees for "testing" someone. I dont even believe in "belt tests" simply because your instructor should already be noting your improvement.When you start to beat all the guys at your level and running with the guys the level above you, you should be promoted accordingly. Then I guess you need to take into account what it means to be promoted. Does it mean you're a better fighter, or is there more to it such as your discipline, katas, breaks, etc etc.

Im assuming you're talking about defeating an opponent that is bigger than you. Take into account that most of the "good" streetfighters are good for no other reason than they've got a good haymaker, which is the most common punch you'll see in a fight. (i.e. Tank Abbott) Take into account that the blocks taught in Karate are not very effective at all- the best style for teaching someone how to use their hands is boxing (so if you're karate instructor was also trained in boxing, it would help). Then take into account that no one likes to get hit, and when people realize they're fighting a better striker, the most common reaction is to clinch so as not to get hit anymore. Thats where a style good in clinch work is particularly effective. The whole idea of keeping an opponent at bay with strikes just wont work by itself- its a good idea to compliment your striking with a good sprawl/takedown defense.

I think a good kick can only be effective if you've got good punches to back it up. For example, you may be proficient at kicking, and suck at punching. Anytime you kick, your attacker is either going to jump back to avoid it or rush in to jam the kick (and he'll only back up so many times). If every time he gets within punching range you tag him up with a couple of good ones, he'll be reluctant to be so close, which I believe would make kicks much easier to throw/land.

There arent really "escapes" from the techniques you're talking about. When a submission is sunk in, its already too late- you have to get it BEFORE the sub gets sunk in. Its almost like me saying "how do I escape a punch?" The idea is to avoid the punch before it hits your face- otherwise there isnt much you can do is there! So anyways, defending a rear naked strangle- reach behind your hand with your hand and put your bicep to your ear so as to allow no space between your arm and your head (he cant choke you if he goes underneat that arm, get it?) Depending on which side he attacks, you'll have to switch arms to defend. Tucking the chin isnt the best of ideas- against a seasoned Jiu Jitsu fighter, you'll get choked over your jaw/face which is very painful and can break some of your teeth if you're not carefull. The guillotine is a very basic but very successfull submission. Suppose he wraps for the guillotine with his right arm- grab his wrist with your right arm with a grip facing yourself (like a chinup grip you know) and pull down (sometimes you'll need to use both hands). Then push his elbow with your left hand to get your head out. It depends on how good he is at that particular choke and how good your escape is.