White Warlock

Hmm... for how long... and with whom? Wing chun, if developed and if instructed by a 'competent' instructor/practitioner, is very effective. I have friends in the police department, working the streets every day, that vouch for its effectiveness. Let's try not to bash other systems without sufficient knowledge. I noted your pic (in the other thread) and you're really not old enough, and likely not experienced enough, to give such blatantly disrespectful comments about a system hundreds of thousands of people apply every day in 'real' life-threatening occupations (as opposed to just picking up on chicks ). Here's a bit of information on wing chun (and most traditional Chinese systems). Training is slow. You spend the first three years just learning eye-hand coordination, undergoing a multitude of drills to train your mind and body in using muscles long-since dormant, and in ways seemingly unnatural. Systems like kickboxing give far more immediate applicability, but don't make the assumption that short-term satisfaction beats out long-term. The truth is, if you start with a proper base, you're going to be better off... in the long run.

Hmm... 7 posts in a row. How about editing your posts next time? On a personal note, the hardest part i have right now is understanding what it is you are trying to say. Beyond that... you started this thread, requesting feedback. Many people here were very honest in what they felt about how you have thusfar presented yourself here. The internet isn't an easy medium to communicate your feelings or ideas, so misunderstandings will arise, but if you ask for input, don't be upset when the responses you receive weren't what you expected. I, for one, am not inclined to humor you and leave you ignorant of what little i was able to observe. You give insight into the way you think and the way you try to deal with things by the comments you make and the information you provide. Are we supposed to ignore your posts? Of course not. If you have something to say, then say it. But if you have something to ask, expect 'unexpected' answers. After all, there's no real reason to ask a question if you already know the answer to it, right? In the end, if you didn't like the insight presented here and you opt to ignore it, that is your choice. I would say it isn't a good choice... but it is yours to make.

hehe, just noticed we hijacked this thread. Anyone else care to comment about hapkido?

Well, Ueshiba wasn't merely a pacifist... he was an Omoto-Kyo priest, a relatively young religion that is part neo-shintoism and part sociopolitical idealism. Given this understanding, aikido became Ueshiba's means to communicate a belief system of harmony with the force and principle of nature. When you consider this, you realize that aikido was intended to be the vessel by which those not in harmony would be brought into harmony via unification. I.e., someone attacks you and you become friends and at peace with this person who had previously attempted to take your life, by guiding him and redirecting him, and in the end preserving him. So... to compete is to voluntarily enter into disharmony. Reader's digest version.

lol *smacks* equaninimus

I've heard the same story, as well as about 13 other stories. Personally, the history of a system is not nearly as important as whether it effective or not, but... some people like to 'brag' about something, especially when they can't brag about themselves. Unfortunately, you're just a tad bit too far away for me to visit. I did, however, respond to a post here in this forum and included links to various online video clips. Maybe what you see and listen to there will help wash out some of that offal you were fed (take special note of the clips with grandmaster Jimmy Woo talking. A proud, yet humble man who often taught his classes in casual 70's attire. And yes, he wore a black belt... to hold up his pants. hehe)

Well, i'm going to have to say you're well full of it there sano. Aikido is exceedingly effective when you are restricted by laws. I used aikido techniques almost exclusively during the years I worked in a psychiatric emergency room. It is, hands down, the best way to handle a physical confrontation while not doing harm to your adversary (or, in this case, patient). And, as for aikido not entering into competitions, that has far more to do with the philosophies so intrinsic to this system. Without attempting to sound trite, i recommend you actually take a moment to understand what it is you 'think' you are talking about. Cheers friend.

Many fail to recognize that knees, elbows and your skull are some of your greatest striking and driving tools in a grapple. Elbows and knees work great for just a fraction of a second in close-in fighting, but that range has a very short lifespan and people tie-up (grapple) or step back almost immediately. note: i base my thoughts on 'street,' not rules-bogged tournaments. I, frankly, could care less what works or doesn't work in a tourney.

If anyone ever experienced a dream where they were in a confrontation and either their strikes were ineffective, they moved as if through molasses, or were even bested, then you should take heed. Such dreams do indicate a degree of mental unpreparedness or insecurity and training your mind via lucid dreams 'can be' an effective means to overcome these insecurities, but nothing beats regular 'real world' training sessions.

Shorinryu Sensei, if i had witnessed what you did, I too would hold to your opinions. I am not even remotely okay with what you described as their behavior or attitude, nor is it in line with Jimmy Woo's philosophical teachings... of turning the other cheek, whenever and wherever. Of showing respect to everyone and recognizing the value of a good pair of running shoes. Seems you were exposed to the Frank Woolsey branch, a 'very' early breakaway 'streetfighter' student from the traditional studies that is marred with black stories. I never put much effort or interest into researching this, nor am i inclined to enter into such 'trivial' politics. Suffice it to say, every system has it internal strife and controversial 'black sheep.' As to the belt ranks, pfah! If you read my introduction, you would have noted that when i trained, there were no belts in san soo. Jimmy Woo used to say, "I have a belt. It hold up my pants." * But, belt ranks have existed with Frank Woolsey's branch from the onset. * Unfortunately, Jimmy Woo eventually introduced belt ranks a few years before his demise. I was led to believe he did it just to shut up all the whiners.

Ditto. Excellent succinct post Tommarker.

"And next week, Natural will instruct us in how to perform the spinning, over-the-toenail, rubber ducky triple kick, with a cherry on top." Btw, good insight Tal. Natural, you've been given a lot of good advice here, but i have to say i'm not impressed by your response to all of that. Instead of heeding all this advice, you've decided to dismiss almost all of it and opt to ramble off about studying things that are utterly ineffective 'showoff' actions. The real question you should ask yourself is this... do you truly think you're better than everyone else?

lol "But, your Honor, we were sparring, see... and, well... i tore his lungs out, see... and, well... ... what? ... ... No your Honor, it wasn't self defense. Well, it was... sorta. I mean, we agreed to try and kill each other and... ... what? ... ... Yes your Honor... no mercy... ... Yes your Honor... i was doing him a service... "

hmm... so what happens when he 'comes in' with honor?

Be full aware that what may 'look' like it works while in the laboratory, may very well blow up in your face when placed in the real world. Many years back, I demonstrated to my brother (a rather brilliant non-practitioner) a technique from a questionable system I was introduced to that i was attempting to understand, but which... for some reason... felt wrong. Anyway, sure enough, as I was showing it, he quickly pulled me into him and headbutted me. and there it was... Seriously, if you do not have a clue... don't attempt to create a clue out of nothing, for it will be hollow and not taste very good.

Here are a few video clip examples. Most of these are being performed slowly, in a relaxed state, and with consideration for the partner's safety. so-so quality clips. Note that the interview of grandmaster Jimmy Woo ends with him giving a demonstration - http://www.kungfusansoostuff.com/masterswork.html More masters at play - http://www.easthillskungfu.com/videos.htm A nice demonstration - http://www.easthillskungfu.com/fair.htm Video clips from master Chuck Cory's site - http://www.sansoomichigan.com/vidgallery.htm (don't have realplayer installed, so can't vouch for these) http://www.redshift.com/~mjacobi/mpegs.html

I agree that for many people, obtaining a belt and performing periodic rank tests helps to encourage studies and can sometimes break down the monotony. On the other hand... some of us don't need anymore motivation than to wake up in the morning and say, "time for another beating!" Thanks all for the welcome and it's good to know my input is appreciated. I've enjoyed many of the posts and articles here as well and have already noted a few likeminded souls. Who knows, maybe i'll eventually rattle a few cages or join in on some interesting debates.

well, it pretty much translates to mean 'a lot,' 'very much' or 'too much.' I suppose i would have to have it stated in context, and with the manner in which it was stated. I.e., if it was stated with a smirk, it could very well be he was stating you're over the top... meaning too much personality. If it was stated with a degree of surprise, it could mean he was impressed with your innate abilities... or strength... or your degree of enthusiasm. btw, i'm in San Diego as well.

As long as you don't drop it on your foot, you should be fine. Seriously, I recommend weight lifting, along with cardiovascular workouts. Building muscles, while staying fit and lean is a very good thing, but building muscle mass... that can seriously get in your way. My only real concern comes on the issue of people that emphasize muscle strength finding the study of soft studies to be exceedingly difficult. Therefore, if you wish to study things like tai chi, pakua, or aikido, I would recommend first tapping into the qualities of leverage and motion over power and strength before getting into a muscle building program.

Well, denying a child the opportunity to learn is far different than imposing false confidence. It is a very bad thing to give a child a black belt if the child does not have the proper state of mind. Such an action could cause a child to gain an overinflated ego, or consider himself 'better' than others. It all pretty much goes back to the 'bragma' of belt rankings, which... for children... serves as a means to say, "i'm better than you are." And it is a rare child indeed that doesn't fall into that trap.

Thanks. I've had plenty of "share-sessions" with competent practioners of AK, as well as other styles, but hesitate to say that i 'studied' it. Clearly not in the traditional sense of the word, no. I suppose that's part of the communication problem that happens sometimes when people attempt to explain the 'differences' in san soo's approach. Attack is the focus, in that it holds to the belief the best defense is a good offense... and san soo can be very offensive to some. Seriously though, san soo does instruct in defense, but only as a precursor to entering into an offense. The misconception happens in that the first few years of san soo training is fixated on building an aggressive, all-offense mentality. Removing such silly notions as allowing the opposition to 'spar' with you, or punch back. Basically, it is focused on building the proper mindset and training you to 'take care of business first' and ask questions later. Of learning to convert the predator into the prey, and learning to convert yourself from being the prey, into being the predator. In many respects, san soo is far more zen in application than most Japanese systems i've witnessed or experienced. At the later stages of san soo, rather detailed studies are made into 'regaining' the offense, which is, in itself... a study in defense. As well, learning how to use your environment, including the bodies of your assailants, becomes the emphasis, in that you begin studies into obstructing and distracting your opponents, causing them to be hindered by each other (assuming multiple adversaries) or by surrounding objects (think Jackie Chan in Rumble in the Bronx). But, throughout the study process of san soo, the psychology of war is examined and discussed. A detailed look into the initiation of conflicts and the means to 'halt' or 'deescalate.' For although san soo enters into the study of applying lethal force, it steadfastly reinforces avoiding conflict whenever reasonably possible. The sheer lethality of the studies actually helps reinforce the 'common sense' of such an approach, in that if you are able to commit to such violence, why not as well your opponent? Notice the reverse mindset. Rather than looking at how your opponent could cause lethal force, therefore you must study to defend against such by, in turn, learning to cause lethal force, the approach in san soo is more along the lines of learning to be 'willing' and 'able' to commit lethal force, and therein learning to respect the 'potential' of your opposition. I.e., the typical mindset of, "I must be able to prevent you from killing me." as opposed to san soo's, "I can kill you, therefore you could kill me. Let us not die today." In learning to avoid conflict, and in learning to respect the fragility of life, it goes something like this, "let us both agree to run away."

Agree with Shorinryu Sensei

It was worth 3 cents. Yes, san soo focuses on 'controlling' your opponent from one injury into the next and it is a very aggressive system. That is not to say the training is aggressive, only the mindset... as it focuses heavily on 'dirty tactics,' such as hair pulling, biting, eye gouging, groin ripping, etc. Things often tossed into other systems as fluff are the meat and potatoes of san soo and many people have walked out of their first session either disgusted or unnerved. The chuan fa / kempo / kenpo styles actually have in common with san soo a study into the consequence of motion, in that everything you do creates a response from your opponent, which you can predict and present your opponent to the next stage in his defeat. I.e., 'controlling' your opponent from one injury into the next. Kenpo is not as aggressive as san soo, but san soo relies heavily on the windmill system (circular), while kenpo strives for both circular and linear techniques. Both offer excellent insight into producing devastating and unrelenting attacks. However, i noted the more traditional kempo styles a bit too high-centered and less stepped (not as many actions completed before ending an attack). Personal note: i've found quite a bit of 'pseudo-intellectual chitter' in Ed Parker's writings, despite his providing great strides in the morphing of kenpo for the American way of learning. Still, it's good reading.

This article deserved a rebirth. Excellent.

I'm thinking a rottweiler.