White Warlock

I'm offended by this remark.

Hmm, if i were to strip the muscles from the bone, turn the bone into a chicken leg... maybe 10 pounds would break it... on a good day. I do understand your argument bullydog. At least, i think i do. If i may, i think you're basically stating that if you apply 10 foot pounds appropriately, on a given arm, with what Delta1 said, about angle, etc, that it would break. All things being perfect, i would agree. But, they are not, so i also don't follow such a belief. With muscles tense, the natural kneejerk response to being impacted, the absorbing nature of soft tissue, the difficulty in getting a straight-on perpendicular strike, the free flowing nature of limbs as they are, i would say it takes quite a bit more than just 10 foot pounds. On the other hand, if i had the arm tied down, the muscles atrophied with drugs, and the person looking the other way prior to my striking... i just 'might' be able to use 10 foot pounds to snap it in two. Yes, i'm being a pest.

I'm glad to hear this SS. I agree that there is just a tad too much emphasis on flash, and not on function, in forms competitions.

Personally, i see you're not doing anything there to resolve the issue. In fact, you're goading him to keep it up. Good way to find yourself in the leaning rest. My recommends? Get control over yourself... and your mouth. This problem, and other problems, won't go away until you put a stopper on your ego and need for revenge. Despite how annoying the guy may be, try to look at him as a human being, with a father, mother, brothers and sisters. Recognize he's not everything in front of you, he's more... and he's less. You don't have to make him your friend, but you do need to try and stop 'ensuring' he's your enemy.

Single encounter situations, i usually walk away, make peace, or apologize. If it is someone i have to deal with regularly, as in a prison, a school, or a jobsite, or if a loved one is in danger, i put my foot down. I deal with the issue in a controlled manner, applying just enough force, or presence, to ensure the incident does not escalate. I aim for the confrontation to be about me and him, and nobody else, and about nothing else other than the specific motive of that particular confrontation. I.e., i do talk initially, to define exactly why the confrontation is happening in the first place, and then making sure that the argument or confrontation is decided based on said targetted topic. Doing so helps to redirect the whole thing to a 'non-personal' level. An exception to this is when i'm in the wrong. If i'm in the wrong, i apologize and do what we both deem is necessary to make amends. Finally, i try to clean the slate of things immediately after the end of the confrontation. Part of what helps with this is letting someone hold a modicum of self-respect. For instance, i invited one person to lunch shortly after subdueing him. In another, i complemented someone on how well they fought. In another, i placed out my hand to shake, knowing full well he would not. Etc... The good guy stance does work, as long as you're sincere.

Well, i used to be a collector, and still have a few collectables. Spidey survived almost every encounter (i recall he was knocked out once), but it was through wit and guile that he came out on top.. or even. In fact, Hulk would usually give up, out of frustration. All in all, i give it to Spidey... to force a draw.

Only the Chinese systems. The Japanese/Okinawan history is quite different in this regard, although still interesting in its own, demented way. You'll also note that the Japanese/Okinawan styles have far less flash (and surprise techniques). An example of differences in societies encouraging different things.

I think it's important to mention, at this time, that much of the flash was actually created centuries ago. Bear with me as i give a Reader's Digest version of things. In China, instructors sometimes had to compete for housing, if you will. To gain entry into a noble's home, and be given the 'lifetime' job of instructing a noble's son (possibly the noble himself, or maybe his personal guard), prospective instructors would put up shows in the town square or market area. Sometimes these shows would be posed in the noble's courtyard, by invitation. Anyway, in order to impress the nobles, they often had to present 'flashy' displays. It was only sometimes that they actually had to physically compete against other prospective instructors (or the apprentices of such). These uncommon competitions helped birth many of the 'surprise-type' attacks that are unique to various kung fu systems. Jumping to the future... After the Boxer Rebellion, martial arts was outlawed in China (as it was already in many outlying Asian nations). Only officers, soldiers, and those that held special title were allowed to practice it. However, the flashy was maintained in a relatively new form... that of the 'official wushu.' Wushu* (which is actually the appropriate name for a martial art in China, as opposed to kung fu which means something altogether different) was later encouraged as a national art. However, wushu contains almost no functional value which, btw, is the reason it was encouraged. Tai Chi* was also encouraged for similar reasons except, instead of flash and display, it was health-oriented activity for the elderly. * by all means refute their applicability if inclined, but please do so in a different thread, so as not to derail this one.

hehe

I would disagree with this. They are more than happy to believe, but not necessarily happy to be fooled. Also, i think you're projecting your intelligence as a national standard. The thing is, you're quite a bit smarter than the Average Joe. Yeah, i think that's the bite though. it's not "some may become disillusioned and leave," it's most. It is very disheartening to have spent lots of money and many years studying a system, only to be handed your * in the street by a punk who looks like he would have difficulty getting up in the morning. I once tutored this teen who spent four years studying at a Mcdojo. He went as high as brown belt, but because his mom was having financial problems, he was never able to pay for the black belt test (a $450 cost, upfront, with additional fees). Anyway, on my first private session with him, i asked him to attack me... and i stood there blocking everything he threw at me... with one hand to my side. I had only a few a sessions with him before he discontinued training. He realized then that he had pretty much wasted his time with the last four years and so he decided to pursue flash over function... just to justify all that time and expense. Anyway, to make it short, he started watching movies so he could imitate all the flash... but still held onto a degree of false confidence and got himself into a few fights, where he was handed his *. His path is a common one.

Well Vito, with that same argument, 99.9999% of all martial artists have "no real fighting experience." Still, before you continue with these arguments, maybe you should read Jackie's autobiography. Then again, maybe i just don't get your point.

In my case, i've experienced and studied in a variety of styles over the years. With judo, it was due to the fact they were providing courses from a good instructor at the local community center, and my parents wanted something to keep me busy. With boxing, my dad had studied it, shared some with me, and i was intrigued by it so i continued my studies at a local gg club. With ninjutsu (taijutsu for you purists), my neighbor was friendly and taught me. I gather he did it to keep himself in practice. To me, he was conveniently located. With wrestling, my friend, who was in the high school team, utterly dominated me in a friendly wrestling bout in the grass. This intrigued me, and so i joined. Was a good thing too, because the coach was awesome and i later studied wrestling, self-defense, and judo with that same coach at the local college. With san soo, Rick & Rick had a school right next to my job, so i joined and studied with them for some years. Mostly, i was taking up dangerous occupations and generally taking too many risks, so i needed something to compensate for my increasing insecurity. I jumped into aikido because it provided me a means to deal with confrontations, without the 'kill or be killed' mentality that had pervaded my senses over the years. My later studies were pretty much a delving into various systems, so i could understand the strengths and weaknesses of each, and to increase my repertoire of responsive understanding (i.e., decrease the likelihood that i would be caught by surprise, by decreasing the amount of techniques i had never witnessed or experienced). I suppose that's enough.

I give myself time. I first read the Art of War by Sun Tzu (not actually written by him, but whatever) and the Book of Five Rings back in 76'. They didn't mean much to me, at the age of 12. I read them again a few years later, and some of it made sense. I read them again a few years later, and more of it made sense. As time went by, as i grew older, as i experienced more in life (and increased my studies in the martial arts) more of what i read started falling into place. But, i also noticed something. Years of life changes made each reading a completely different experience and i garnered different information each and every time. I realized that every stage in my life was actually based on different preconceptions. That because of one cataclysmic event or another, my perceptions of the world had changed, and with it... the way i examined data had also changed. Like looking at things from different windows of a house... some broken, some tinted. Give yourself time.

Let's see if i can top this: "One must feel the essence of forces interchanging, a pattern of uniform resistance and cohesion that brings together all manner of life in a continuous stream of energy, which can be channeled and directed to induce immense physical and psychological harm, notwithstanding the interspersal aspects of cogent relations, at least as they pertain to macabre monkey suits." *returns to a meditative state*

That's it, isn't it though? IF you practice fighting skills, and not merely a series of actions that 'mimic' fighting.

Elbow injuries generally happen with nunchakus when you put flash over function. In order to avoid such injuries, keep your actions tight to your body and your swings either vertical, horizontal, or at a 45 degree angle. If you wish to study 'effective' vs 'flash,' techniques to avoid are those where you place your weapon behind you (and one or both arms behind you), where you wrap the weapon around your neck (obvious duh!), or wrap them about limbs below your belt (causing you to bend over and leaving your upper body unprotected). Secondary avoidances are to not wrap the weapon behind any portion of your body (occasional is fine, but make it a habit and you can be timed and then trapped), and to not keep the weapon in 'constant' motion (which encourages you to maintain a rhythm, as opposed to a broken rhythm). Things to emphasize are 'impact' points. Instead of focusing to swing the weapon around, focus on stationary points in front of you, or to the sides. These are your targets, and the nunchaku's swing needs to accelerate prior to impacting these points, as opposed to maintaining the same velocity throughout. Your free lesson for the day.

SS touches the point that is at the crux of these discussions. Let's face it, most of us participating in this discussion actually know the difference between what works and what's Showboatin' Annie. But, he who walks off the street, after watching Jet Li take out 3,000 opponents in five minutes of exhilarating Blow Chunks Fu, can't see the trees for the forest. They're not able to differentiate, and thus are ripe for the picking by those flash schools that harvest them with consumnate ease. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. But, having been in the graphics industry, i know full well that a picture is actually a great means to deceive. What looks good, isn't necessarily good, and if you place what looks good in a 'test tube' environment, where these techniques of flash are allowed to display themselves like peacocks at the zoo, then you're going to have tons of people get snookered into believing they're actually learning a viable martial art system. Catch is, you put that peacock into a lion's den... and lunch be served. So, to close. If the student's goals are being met, that's great. But, in this day and age, it's usually the instructor's goals that are being met.

Flashy is pretty, and a great way to get into show business. However, it has very little business being applied in the streets. All in all, it matters what your goals are.

Hehe, well The Prince is a good piece to read, but not to take to heart.

lol, i could have sworn he was like 56 years old or something. My argument still stands, and you're all a bunch of n00blets!

Agree with SS, this is how i've handled it in the past.

Aptitude should be your goal, not a silly black piece of cloth you wear over your Japanese pajamas.

Batman, read the post just prior to yours.

Aye, you're right there, the spectators would win. Re: Jackie Chan - Many of the persons Jackie Chan has had on his movies are/were professionally ranked full contact martial arts competitors, including the likes of Benny "The Jet" Urquidez. Many of them have stated that Jackie Chan is, indeed, a talented martial artist. Anyway, the guy's been doing this stuff for over 50 years. Do you really think he hasn't learned anything after making over a hundred movies and worked out with some of the best of the best? Jackie Chan is humble and states he is not a martial artist, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Do not confuse humility with ignorance.

You didn't like Victor Harris' version? Wow, you're wierd.