White Warlock

No, science did not teach that the world was flat. Religion did. You know, those 'faith' guys? In fact, many mathematicians of the time had given evidence to suggest the world was not flat, but they were intimidated by the church, and accompanying inquisitors, into shutting the hell up. In fact, even before Aristotle, 'spherical' was the postulation. As to the center of the universe, that was also 'religion.' Nice to see that everyone here is so well versed. Unfortunately, Aristotle later presented the Earth as the center, in his theories. But this was later 'subtley' challenged by Ptolemy's theories, who put the earth slightly outside of the center. Copernicus later presented the heliocentric (earth revolving around the Sun) theory. Oh, and here's that dubious Discovery Channel show i mentioned - http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=11484 Plenty more where that came from, i just found out.

Well, the unfortunate thing is, they sometimes do. In fact, one 'provided' so-called documentary, of which I can't recall the details of right now... had to be pulled and the offended persons apologized to... as it contained slander. This, in fact, happened only a month or so ago. Media is business and the Discovery channel is not non-profit, so when it comes to what they show... it's ratings that matter, not validity. But, regardless, we're 'assuming' that a show was presented on the Discovery channel. At this point, such data has not been presented... and thus this line of reasoning is moot until such time as the show you purport has been presented as evidence... or at least as a point of debate.

Also, science isn't a single study, so my use of 'scientist' is actually very inappropriate. It is as bad as saying, "technician." What type of technician? Auto mechanic? Computer tech? You get the picture. In actuality, what we should be referring to here is known as the 'scientific method.' Scientific method is a systematic method used to research and answer questions. It involves several steps: Question -- the springboard for the rest of the experiment. It asks, "What do I want to find out?" Research -- finding out as much information about the subject as possible, including past scientific experimentation. Hypothesis -- an "educated guess" of what the results of the experiment will be. The hypothesis is based on experience and prior research. Variables -- something capable of change. There are three types of variables: controlled, independent, and dependent. Controlled variables are kept the same for all tests within an experiment. Changes in controlled variables during an experiment may effect the results. This could lead to misinterpretation of the experiment. Controlled variables are capable of change, but controlled. Examples are: inserting the thermometer the same depth into each cup, using the same volume of each sample, using identical cups, or running each test at the same room temperature. Independent variables are tested and varied within the experiment to see what happens. Examples of independent variable are: soil types and number of minutes. Dependent variables are results from manipulating the independent variables. An example of a dependent variable is temperature. Procedure -- the list of materials and step-by-step instructions for the experiment. Testing -- the actual experimentation phase. Included in the testing is the collection of data. Results -- a summary of what happened during the experiment. Conclusion -- a restatement of the original hypothesis, a summation of the results, and a new statement of how the results related to the hypothesis. Extension -- a way to take the experiment to a new level. Extensions will include questions requiring further research, alternative methods for performing the experiment, other experiments, readings, and resources. (from the University of Washington Department of Atmospheric Sciences) On the efforts is the 'testing' phase that falls flat, because so-called ki masters do not 'produce' results of any kind... even results that are not measureable. Nothing happens. Some have contended that ki is the ability to influence bio-electric energy, but such things could easily be measured, and have not. A variety of other explanations have been posed, but since none of them provide insight, only spiritually guided speculation, or blind faith... it is hardly reasonable to accept at face value. Any more than it would be reasonable that i can pull a rabbit out of my hat.

no That is not true. To someone not versed in the process of scientific analysis, it can seem as such, but it is hardly the case. Many scientific theories exist that are based on postulation, but that cannot be readily 'proven' due to the lack of physical evidence. There are other theories that are based on mathematical formulae and/or partial data. The key issue here is having a 'basis.' Just because someone says it exists, is not enough. If someone cannot provide a viable explanation as to why something exists, then it is merely a 'faith.' But, anything that has a physical effect, such as that demonstrated by so-called ki masters, 'should' provide a degree of measureable influence. This... is the part where ki demos fail miserably, when put to the test. And, as i said before... it's not merely about whether it is measureable or not, but about the fact that when 'professional' scientists attempt to examine said effects generated by a ki master, nothing happens. The so-called ki master somehow is incapable of producing his effects. Thus whatever can be measured, assuming there is something measureable, does not receive the opportunity to be measured.

And there you are ladies and gentlemen. Many of us have experienced confrontations, some of us against multiple opponents. Yet, did we receive this much 'publicity?!?' "grain of salt"

Hehe, 370 lbs of lead poisoning.

Smokey was referring to this - http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=186002&highlight=#186002

Umm... Master Jules, i've probably seen the same psuedo-documentaries. As i said, 'professional' scientists,' not ones hired to do an entertainment piece for television. I have yet to see 'any' results of such studies in a professional journal. Of the few i have read, the results were always, "no discernable measurements, no discernable effects." Think about it. With so much attention placed on such things, isn't it likely that ... if it were legitimate... detailed scientific reports would be provided to 'validate' such claims? And why is this not the case? Because... there are no reports that validate... Oh, and i will gladly retract my comments if someone can provide these scientific reports.

Yeah, go to a weekend seminar and become changed forever. I looked at the website, and at the customer comments. At $2000 per person for 13 hours of instruction, this is a program for white collar executives with insufficient time to practice regularly. It's a sham, as far as i'm concerned, and a very profitable one at that. Matt Furey is the only name i recognized in the list of 'clueless' executives spouting how good the program is. And... Matt Furey is a well known 'snake-oil' salesman. A little research, and i found out they're networking with each other... handing their 'suckers' back and forth. To cut why it's a sham.... 2 days of training cannot possibly bring what you've learned into a muscle memory state. It's all in the head. A false confidence that all you need to is become aggressive, and you can win a confrontation. Well, for the sheep of this nation, that may very well be the ticket... but sheep do not convert into wolves... in a matter of days. It takes years of diligent study, not hours of lectures from some 30 year old blonde surfer dude. Steer clear.

Is all this truly necessary? The fact of the matter is, so-called ki masters have never been able to 'reproduce' their ki effects when the room and their bodies were being monitored by professional scientists (as opposed to psuedo-scientists, which unfortunately exist in large quantities). So... as long as you're in the street, you can pull off ki? I'm sorry guys, but that just falls into the ol' bag of tricks issue. Or do you really believe magicians saw people in half and glue them together again?

Well, today i've decided to create my own system. I am calling it Cauldron. A mix of various systems, brewed together to create an aromatic blend of spellbinding potency. Anyone care to be my first victim? Err... student?

Ugh! How much did you pay, and did you sign a contract? I think you'll find the 'extra' charges to be really friggin' annoying.

I wasn't going to chime in on this one, but... the founder, a Canadian that opted to give his system a 'Japanese' name, and give himself a 9th degree black belt, is being nominated for entry into the 'dubious' World Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Same 'group' that has praised the likes of some rather notorious shysters. An excerpt from the website - "Several 10th degree black belts who I've taught and trained with over the years nominated me," says the 43-year-old Bowmanville resident of the process leading to his induction. "Back in September I got a call and was told that I had been inducted. I had no idea I was even nominated." So, the guy is like, two years older than me, is self-proclaimed 9th degree black belt, and has taught 'several' 10th degree black belts. Okay... sure, and i'm Ali Baba. Want to meet my forty thieves?

Are you kidding?!? I would never be caught dead driving on the highway with my family.

What are you talking about?!?! I am perfect!

Just to be a bugger, i marked the, "Christ was a teenager" option on that poll. I have cared little for historical authenticity of arts, except to understand the basis of some of the theories. What has always mattered to me, is applicability. So when i see or hear something about a system being thousands of years old, I am intrigued, not disgusted. It doesn't matter to me, really. San soo, for example, is argued to be thousands of years old, and yet it is also argued that tsoi li fut is of the same origins, as are many other styles. So, in truth, as Shorin stated... what was and what is are two entirely different things. What is studied today is very likely far and away what was studied then... if indeed it was studied at all. It's fun though, to look at the various arguments posed to justify the 'authenticity' of a system... when truly all that matters, is if the 'average' practitioner of said system can fight their way out of a paper bag.

You're all correct, as far as i'm concerned. Power can be generated in a multitude of ways.

Yep, he's right.

Okay, and now for my only sound defeat... real, ring, or otherwise. It was in high school. You know, when dinosaurs ruled the Earth? I was 16 and in the gym locker, a typical bad place to be when you're feeling cocky. So, i just got out of the shower and i'm drying myself off, when i decided to do the shaggy dog routine of shaking my hair about. The guy behind me, who had always had an issue with me, told me off, in so many expletives. Feeling ornery, i turned around while saying, "well excuuuuse mee," at which point, i felt my jaw rock to the side. I recovered immediately and stared at him, fire building in me. Then everyone started yelling to let me get dressed. Yeppers... i was standing there neked, holding a towel. So, the guy gives the okay and i'm rushing to put my clothes on before my common sense overrides my adrenalin, and i get the shakes. But, i realized before i got much on, that my common sense was pretty quick... so i knew i had to go into the fight now... or i would talk myself out of it. And so... i'm standing there barefoot, with an underwear, on wet tiles, and he's standing there, fully dressed, standing on a towel. Sure enough we both got in a few shots before i slipped, lost my balance, and then he kicked me twice in the face. Once again my nose was broken (it had been broken a few times in the past), and my head was spinning, so i went on defense, got up and retreated from the fight. Morale of the story... choose your battlefields wisely.

I would say it's all three.

hehe

And there it is. Creator's entitlement. Thanks shotokanwarrior. I may pick that one up sometime. Probably has a lot of the same material as the Tao of Jeet Kune Do book, but the few tidbits of additional notes may make it worth the expense.

I'm sorry, i do not have that book. Did Bruce Lee write that particular paragraph?

Man who urinate in bushes... eventually get bitten by snake...