Sauzin

Uh...well I could see how one would see the tonfa as a "karate enhancer" but I would be interested to see any reference material that pointed to such intention in their development. The use of this weapon exept for the very most basic punching and blocking techniques bare little resemblance to empty handed techniques in the style I practice. I mean sure the punching and 2 of the blocks (high and low) are nearly the same as empty hand, but this is maybe 30% of the techniques that you generally see. The rest is a series of swinging, grappling, striking, and tai sabaki that bears more resemblance to nunchaku or sais then empty hand. Even the stance has to be a lot narrower then most empty handed sanchin or front stances seen out there. Otherwise you need to be really good at avoiding your own knees. As far as the tonfa not generating the kind of power that would kill in a single strike well I guess the only way to really prove or disprove this would be for someone to try, which I haven't, but I have seen only one weapon that generates more velocity and since it is on a string (nunchaku) and weighs less then the tonfa it has less driving force behind it. Don't get me wrong you can generate a lot of power with the bo, but the swing of a tonfa simply seems to reach a higher velocity faster. I don't know if you've ever seen a video of Seikichi Odo or Oyata using the tonfa but the way we do our swinging, we use our whole body and have a tendency to almost fall into our swings as we whip our hips around. It is possible to generate a lot of power with this weapon used this way. From my observations it would be more then enough to nearly take a guy's head clean off his shoulders. At the very least I would think it would crush a skull or collapse a rib cage.

I think your training and MY training are different. The tonfa, like other martial arts weapons, can be devastating if used properly. Thank-you Shorinryu Sensie, I missed that part. In fact, as with such weapons as staffs and even the cane it depends on how you use them. I assure you one good swing to the head and you will drop most people. The risk of death in such a case is actually pretty high. And the attacks that can be made to the ribs, torso, apendages, and collar bones are best described as "severe". I'm sure a jury would agree. Of course the tonfa has a lot of grappling and submission techniqes that can be used. Still I think the cane has the upper hand even in this area.

They are all the things you said. The problem is carrying them around. Even cops only have room on their belt for one. I think it's been discussed already and I have to agree that the cane is probably the best in terms of practicality and it's a bit more verstile and every bit as effective as a tonfa. Don't get me wrong, I love the tonfa. I just don't expect to see people walking down the street with them. Not the "normal" people anyway!

Well I don't own a katana yet but I have been very carefully researching the one I will one day own for about a year and a half. So I'll let you in on a couple of things. 1.) The Paul Chen/Hanwei Practical Katana comes a little on the dull side and is know for being the most unforgiving blade on the planet. Most dojo's that practice cutting ban this sword and the "plus" version by name. They are known for snapping with the slightest mistake in technique. 2.) Combine these facts with the fact that you don't know how to swing one I would highly (repeat) highly suggest you not cut anything. Twigs or plastic bottles might work, but seriously you are asking for it every time you hit anything with that thing without proper technique. 3.) A sword most trained cutters would feel safe using usually costs around $1000. A sword that could handle a "type who swings blades wildly" is likely to cost $7000. I am somewhat thankful that this is the case. I mean if cheap indestructible blades existed then those who wildly swing sharp things would likely end the population of the earth, to include themselves.

And I have personally heard guys over here yell things in their kia's that you would expect to see in "She Spies". Yelling "Kia" is the most popular. I've heard other things as well. I once heard "Kiakenpo!"

I'm at Hewlett Packard in Boise, ID right now and I know several co-workers who if the article hadn't mentioned a name other then theirs I would have highly suspected of being the origin of the story. I used to work in Tech Support (building 27) and I know of at least one gal there who fits this bill perfectly. Nice people to work with don't get me wrong. But the hype here in Idaho given by specific Tae-kwon-do instructors seems to mold with certain mindsets over here. The result is a person who proclaims to be a deadly weapon having mastered the most lethal martial art on the planet in under 3 years. But shhhhhh don't tell anyone.

I completely agree that you don't often know what your opponent has in terms of weapons until he uses it. However, whether he has a weapon or doesn't, makes little difference when it comes to choosing when to attack. His attack usually starts prior to the weapon being used anyway. The way I see it moving aggressively in range to attack is an attack on its own weapon or no. I've got a bubble that happens to be a little over arm's length. If an aggressor moves into that bubble, that movement alone is an attack. He has committed to some degree the moment or just before he begins that motion. And in a sense motion is motion. Be it a punch, grab, cut, push, or to get in my face. He becomes vulnerable when he commits to any of these. The way I see it I'm either leaving my position or defending it. His level of commitment decides that. From a legal perspective if you've made every attempt to leave, your hands are open, up, and you are very vocal about not wanting to fight you are likely covered. It's very unlikely that an observer will be so astute as to see that he didn't strike first when he's coming at you aggressively and you are making so many intentionally obvious attempts to avoid the fight.

Now that’s a nice rebuttal. First let me point out a couple of things that I think you missed and as a result drew some premature conclusions. Bow = Respect. Respect can be shown to God. Respect can shown to your fellow men. Respect can be shown to your pet hamster. Of course there are differences in the level and manner of this respect. Basically I am arguing that a fundamental principle such as respect can have multiple applications as can the means by which you show them. I don't think you are disagreeing with me on this point. I mean it seems pretty self explanatory that associating a culturally universal means of showing respect with only one application (respect to God) is not doing anyone any good. Alright now I've got to break out the quotes: Bowing is a sign of respect. He stated that he was hesitant to show a sign of respect. Now I will admit that it is my opinion and prejudgment made based on past experiences with people of a similar mindset that leads me to believe that considering the idea of not bowing requires disrespectful, presumptuous, and egotistical qualities. I have no facts to prove this. This is my personal experience and I would love to be proven wrong. I apologize for the offense. Often I should keep my opinions to myself and I fail to do so. I like that. "Begging the question." Please understand I haven't attended a debate class so I am at a lack for proper terminology. Here's the deal. His question conveyed the meaning "is it OK not to show respect" what he probably intended to convey was "if you could get away with showing respect some other way". At least that was my guess. I can't read minds so I really don't know. Other then it being a sucker question I agree with you completely. Pointing this out was one of the intents of my original post. Call Ki whatever you like but to say it doesn't exist is like saying bananas don't exist just because I like to call then nanoos instead. And to say that you don't want to work out somewhere because they don't call it nanoos is just plain ridiculous to me. I wanted to find out how he has justified this. You're right it wasn't the best analogy. It wasn't bad but didn't fit as well as it should have. Lets compare Karate to painting. Since man knew what to do with his fingers, man has painted God's image. Man continues to paint religious subjects and use painting for religions means. Some of the greatest painters ever were deeply religions as well. But when one takes a painting class they generally don't have to worry about being asked to break out the sacrament. This is because painting, while it has a history of being associated with a religion, isn't innately religions. Same holds true with Karate. Sure there were great karate practitioners who where Buddhist. Chinese artists who were Hindu. Sure they brought their religion with them as they taught, but the subject itself, Karate is not religious. No more then painting. Every dojo is different. There is certainly historical reference to Karateka who did run down people to test their art. They historically had a difficult time finding teachers and of course history doesn't mention the ones who died right off the bat, but they've existed and they've taught even created styles. Not knowing you're style's lineage I can't sit here and tell you that isn't what your karate is about. I can tell you one thing. That's not what my karate and its lineage has ever been about. Survival, yes. But survival means knowing how to respect people. Bowing as it is today was introduced by Japan, but bowing as a sign of respect to royalty and to elders is so old it cannot be historically traced. You want a short life in Okinawa 300 years ago. Choose not to bow to a royal guard. 100 years ago, try not showing humility to a police officer. You'd be lucky to escape with your life. That was the culture and it was taught in the dojo most of all. This is where you learned why respect was well earned and why humility was a life skill. At least this is the heritage I was taught. Also a casual bow isn't any more an act of worship to an Okinawan then a handshake. Again it’s the basic principle thing. Respect is respect, whether it's used for worship or human decency. Just because it is used in worship doesn't mean it is worship. I do protest a lot. This means a lot to me. Just like it means a lot to you.

I am open to anyone's comments. Please feel free to jump in.

One further thing that I want to make clear. I do not mean to insult the Christians of this community who I most honestly have a great deal of respect for. Nor am I attempting to persecute anyone. I think this has a lot less to do with the fact that he is Christian and a lot more to do with his attitude and application which could be the same given any religion.

First off I would like to apologize for the unintended hostility in my first post. It's a sensitive subject, and I should have accounted for that. However I will defend the assertions made in my first post. Bowing = respect. This is not new and is not something that any American can claim cultural ignorance to. Maybe 100 or 200 years ago this would be understandable. But by asking the question "is it OK not to bow", you are asking "Is it OK not to show respect." Did I assume you knew that bowing was a sign of respect. Yes I did. The same way I am assuming you know how to read. In fact I have known people who don't know how to read that could have told me what a bow was for. Please don't claim not to have understood this most basic cultural fact. You seem very intelligent so it is obvious this is not the case. Heck, you corrected my spelling (which I am thankful for as it has always been a weak area of mine). It is likely that you wanted to know if you could get away with showing respect some other way. What I was trying to make clear was by doing so it would be disrespectful, presumptuous, and egotistic. My opinion is that just considering it would require as much. You don't want an art involving the use of the word ki. OK now I'm curious. You know what the word means. Why don't you like it? I have to say that I disagree with the comment that not wanting to bow should not affect one's ability to practice karate. The ability to show respect and humility is fundamental to the practice of a martial art. In fact these aspects may protect you physically more effectively then any technique taught. Without the art taught with these things you don't have a defensive art you have a let's go out and get ourselves killed art. That's not what karate is about. And no, I don’t think respect and humility could be taught in karate without bowing. The same ego that prevents you from bowing would prevent these things from being learned. I understand associating bowing with worship. You respect your faith thus you bow your head in prayer and worship. It shows humility before God. These things I understand, but why should you not show humility before your fellow man? Why should humility in an art conflict with a religion? Traditionally, Karate is to religion as a tennis lesson is to religion. Think of it as going to learn tennis from an Okinawan coach. And by the way he would likely shake your hand because he respects your culture and a sport born of it. Why hesitate to do the same for a treasured art? Why are your associations with the worship of your religion restricting in this manner? Why don't your beliefs in fact encourage you to bow? These are honest questions by the way, I don't mean to flame you. I in fact know quite a bit about Christianity and have been avidly Christian for most of my life. What I am doing is trying to understand your attitude and your application of your religion towards martial arts. You claim I make assumptions out of ignorance, please help me understand.

If I were in a situation where a physical conflict was unavoidable then ideally I would wait for my opponent to commit. This could be as little as a step or a turn, but I would wait for it. It doesn't matter if he intends to push me, grab and throw, or hit me three times. The second he starts to do it is when I will respond. The more commitment the better but I would take whatever he gives me. Even if it was a fake. This does not mean I am letting my opponent control the timing. It's my timing the second I commit and I will change it how I see fit. Plus, until your opponent commits you don't have an accurate target because he can move any direction. Once he commits it's too late. And one thing I've learned is that even with a fist 1 inch from my chest, I have all the time in the world. "Like a calm lake whose waters reflect the moon." On a side note, I have found that many of the strategies and principles applied in Aikido are often used in karate. The training is different but many of the advanced applications are nearly identical.

Oh man, I don't know why but this post really bothers me. First, you could practice Tae kwon do and spend an entire life getting better and continually learning. This is true of any martial system including even the most Americanized Tae kwon do you can find. If you want depth then I would suggest finding a teacher that knows kata as there is no better way to explore the depth in martial arts then by intimately knowing kata. Where in Christianity does it say that you can't show physical signs of respect? No, scratch that question. You see, you can interpret what ever scripture you want to say whatever you want it to. But the second you interpret your religious teachings to mean that you shouldn't show respect to another human or to an art passed on by a lineage of disciplined artisans who have dedicated their lives and/or died to keep and make them available to you, you are crossing the line. If you were in my class or a class I was attending and you chose not to bow you would be asked to leave. Chances are you wouldn't get that far because the ego centralism, lack of respect, lack of vision, and illusions of grandeur that are prerequisites to having this problem would likely prevent you from walking in the door. And for this I am thankful. This is has nothing to do with your religion, it has everything to do with your attitude. I also find it frustrating when people say that being Christian means you have to have a problem with ki. Do you even know what ki is defined as? It literally means life energy or breath energy. You believe in breathing right? Well there you go, that's what some people call ki. So either your religion is telling you to immediately stop breathing because you might offend God, or you need to take a little more time to understand the meaning of the things you think you disagree with. Scientifically measurable kinetic and electric energy is created in your body every second of every day you are alive. You're not going to find a martial art that doesn't refer to these aspects by some name be it ki, power, breath, momentum, body heat, bioelectric fields, small muscle activity, circulation, or whatever. If you are looking for an art that doesn't practice ki then you are choosing your art based on what somantics they use. How smart do you think that really is? I really didn't get into the Christian/martial arts debate and I really don't want to. But when you combine religion and martial arts this is the kind of thinking you risk running into. There are so many different takes on Christianity I just can't understand why one would want to bring that into martial arts when it is already so hard to find common ground. Can't we just practice martial arts? Why does doing this threaten some people’s religions beliefs? Short of ignorance I can't understand the reasoning.

I view martial arts as being about options. Let me offer an example... A guy who has always believed in not fighting goes to a bar. Two somewhat inebriated guys start messing with him, he tries to leave but they stop him at the door. They pull him outside. His only option is to try and get away, he tries, but they prevent him and he gets beaten to death. They claim it was an accident but they both go to jail for murder 2. A guy buys a knife and practices with it in his back yard. He goes to the bar. Two guys start with him, stopping him at the door. They pull him out side. He now has two options. Try and get away or pull his knife. He realizes that his opponents aren't going to let him do this and fears for his life so he pulls his knife. One stick and the bad guy drops, the other runs. The cops come and arrest him for assault with a deadly weapon and charge him with murder 2. He gets 20 years in prison. A guy practices a comprehensive weapon art for 5 years 3 times a week. He goes to the bar. Two guys start with him, stopping him at the door. They go to pull him outside and he has 3 options. Try and get away, use his weapon to disable them, or use his weapon to kill them. Before they pull him outside he draws his weapon and disables them, holding them 'till the cops to arrive. The cops arrive and charge him, not his attackers, with assault with a deadly weapon. He goes to jail but gets out in a few days. The judge lets him off easy with community service. A guy practices a comprehensive martial art that includes both weapons and empty hand study for 5 years 3 times a week. He goes to the bar. Two guys start with him stopping him at the door. He now has 4 options. Try and get away, use a weapon to disable them, use a weapon to kill them, or remove their control and leave. When the first guy puts his hand on his shoulder he chooses to remove their control and quickly grabs the guy's wrist and applies pressure while stepping behind him. He shoves him towards his friend who, stunned and confused gets angry at the friend who just ran into him. By the time they're done arguing the guy they were assaulting is in his car and pulling out of the lot. So to specifically address your question. There are a lot of situations that might call for the need to defend one's self. The more options you have the better. That's why we train. Will a person always make the right choice? No, but he's got a better chance if he has trained to have more options. Is a knife good for defense? Well it's one option. If you make it you're only option other then not fighting then I think you have done yourself and society a disservice. If the situation causes it to be the only option then I would use it, but I hope to God that my training might prevent that from being the case. Getting killed, however, is not an option.

You know I understand the money crunch thing, really. The first karate classes I took, I paid with by drawing artwork for the instructor. Check the community section of the news paper and see if there are any small groups of people who practice karate in your area. Often in any given city there are several small nomadic groups that don't have a specific dojo but work out in school gyms, people's back yards, garages, or whatever is available. Put the word out any way you can and eventually you'll find someone who can teach you. Keep an open mind, if you can't find a sai instructor who will work with you find something. There's a lot of cool things that can be done with short sticks, knife fighting, Chinese weapons, and the like. I'll tell you what, since I've started doing some instruction I've learned one thing. Committed students, ones who will move mountains to get to class and really enjoy learning weapons are worth their weight in gold. If you can show that you are one of these people you will find an instructor.

I would suggest starting in the phone book. Look up any karate schools in your area. Traditional schools are most likely to have competent sai practice. Styles like Shorin-ryu, Goju-ryu, Isshin-ryu, and Okinawan Kenpo are just a few. The best way is to just call them up and ask them what kinds of weapons they practice and where they learned them from. If you are looking for sais and they can't trace who they learned it from back to Okinawa I would try another number.

Well, here's my experience. Shureido red oak is very high quality. The grain is tighter and denser then what you will see with the $20 variety bo (usually these are from century). Though the red oak you get from Shureido is good, it's still red oak. This means that with age it will get brittle. Proper oiling helps but old Shureido weapons chip very easily. But in my experience it is on par with Japanese white oak in terms of impact resistance. Purpleheart is the superior wood. In my experience it has a very different feel from red oak. It’s hard to explain exactly but the tighter almost invisible grain of purple heart makes it feel very solid, quick, and silvery. Red oak isn't quite as lively but breaths well and feels very natural in your hands. In my opinion, when you buy a Shureido weapon you are paying for unparalleled balance, workmanship, and quality control. The wood is good, but the craft used in making the weapons are the best bar none. Shureido is what is known as reference quality. They are what everyone else uses to define what a weapon should be.

Were I you I wouldn't get so caught up on what styles have high kicks and what styles don't. It is fairly commonly accepted that kicks above the waist are nearly ineffective in real combat. While some schools of traditional karate practice high kicks and some don't, the ones that practice high kicks generally don't use them in fights. They practice higher kicks to gain more control and flexibility but in application, they rarely apply them above the waist. It sounds to me like you are looking for a well rounded system. Something that isn't missing a portion of the fighting arts. This is a good thing to look for, but what will really tell you what it is or isn't missing is the way the art is taught. Most all karate styles have all the aspects you are looking for, it is the instructor that really makes the difference. If when you talk to an instructor, he only talks about one thing (like just point sparring or just kicking or just ground work) then you can pretty much bet that he's missing something else. Here’s a suggestion. Pull out the phone book or look in the community section of the paper and get a list of instructors. Go and watch their classes, and afterwards ask questions. Don't choose a school until you've watched at least 3 different classes. If you still can't quite decide who is the most inclusive then choose the instructor who is the most humble and has the least to prove and go with him. I think most people here will tell you that the instructor is really what makes the difference, not the style. Oh and beware the guys who say that kata are just for promotions. If someone in the school says this, run away, don’t walk, run.

I strongly disagree with this statement and I feel it is a large misconception. It could be more accurately stated that Shotokan is the basis for most Korean martial arts. It could also be accurately stated that Shotokan has had a very heavy influence on many Japanese karate systems. But Karate is Okinawan by origin, and any basis would also have to be Okinawan. While Funikoshi was technically an Okinawan, he did not have sufficient experience to create or propagate an entire system. Because of this he drew heavily from Japanese arts, as is evident by his use of the gi and belt systems. What Funikoshi practiced while on Okinawa is called Shorin-ryu. This could be called one of 3 basis of Karate. Shurite (Shorin-ryu), Nahate (Goju-ryu, Ueichiryu), and Tomareite are the general categories or basis of Okinawan Karate. So if you were to trace Shotokan and Goju back in terms of lineage, they would likely never meet. Even in China they would have come from different places. Now which is better can't be objectively quantified. Even if one system was "better", the quality of the teacher, and his teacher, would affect the quality of what was being taught much more then what style was actually being taught. I will say that from a kata perspective, Goju-ryu has a tendency to be more in depth with its focus on kata then Shotokan. Still Shotokan is in depth and this is not ment to say that one is "easier". What Shotokan lacks in depth it often makes up for in quality of technique, disciplined focus on basics and powerful applications. Of course since I am not objective and I do have a history with Goju-ryu, I'm going to suggest that you check out the Goju-ryu studio first.

A cane really is one of the most effective weapons you can carry. While it isn't concealable per say, if you have it with you, you are well armed. Same goes with a walking stick, only it's a bit more obvious. I've never used an expandable baton. I Imagine it would work well, especially if you knew how to use a short stick. Kobutan's are awesome, probably the most practical. But hey if you're going with illegal, brass knuckles are nice and if used properly, non-lethal. IF USED PROPERLY. If I were to choose I would choose based on convenience. If I'm not going to mind carrying something, then I would go with the cane or walking stick. There is no question that this is the most effective weapons. If I didn't want to carry something then I would go with the Kobutan since I have not tried and personally don't trust an expandable baton. Not to mention it would be more defendable in court.

The actual street effectiveness of using two nunchacku is very low. To properly swing a nunchaku it requires a lot of body movement, the kind that doesn't pair too well with arming both sides with sticks on a string. In a real fight the cords would get caught up too easily and it would be very difficult to control. Also you would loose all of the grappling applications if you used two pairs. Nunchaku as a weapon were designed to be used as a single pair. Now as a spinning baton on a string, chucks are twice as flashy when you have two. But if you do this, you need to have glowing sticks and be sure the lights are off so you can't see anything but the twirly things in front of your face. This simulates a defense against someone spinning you around on an office chair while being drunk in Las Vegas, or something...

Long story made short. I had always wanted to practice martial arts but was afraid of being too physically inept. I had been in several situations where I was physically threatened but managed to manipulate myself out of harms way. I was convinced that most future situations would allow me to do so. In addition to this I had very little care for my own physical well being. Then the impossible happened. I got a girlfriend. I then realized that while my own safety wasn't important, the safety of those I cared about was. And suddenly I had someone who fell into this category. Coincidentally at the same time I met a teacher who had commissioned me to do some artwork for his dojo. I told him that I needed to observe a class to get an idea of what his dojo represented. I found an extremely close, supportive, and friendly environment and decided to participate. I paid for my classes by completing a series of t-shirts and logo's for his class. I still owe him for introducing me to an art that transformed my life. His name was Wade Chroniger.

You are a brave, brave man...now let's never speak of this again.

Yea, what harleyt26 said.

Well nothing wrong with wanting a sword. But you have to ask yourself what you want it for. There's a couple of answers to this question. 1. Q: "I want a sword that looks good but I don't know how and don't intend to use it for anything." A: Buy a replica. You can find them in any magazine, off e-bay or any of a hundred sites. They generally cost around $40 and some are very artistic. They can't be used though. They don't have full tangs, or usually even half tangs. They are usually made out of really bad steel or aluminum. And their fittings are usually plastic. 2. Q: "I want a sword that can be used for iaido or kata practice. I have a qualified instructor." A: Find an iaito. Do a search on google. They are well balanced aluminum swords that cost between $150 and $500. Make sure to consult your instructor to make sure you are buying a weapon that meets the requirements of his/her class. 3. Q: "I want a sword for Tameshigiri. I not only have a qualified instructor but I have been practicing my technique with an iaito/boken for some time and am now ready to cut with supervision." A: There are several acceptable choices. A good starter sword is the Paul Chen Practical Plus. Other good swords can be found at: http://www.coldsteel.com http://www.bugei.com http://www.imperialweapons.com http://www.liveblade.com http://www.ecmas.com http://www.swordstore.com http://www.martialartswords.com 4. Q: "I not only want a sword for Tameshigiri and have been practicing this with qualified instruction for some time, but I want one of the most durable and deadly swords on the planet." A: http://www.mvforge.com/ 5. Q: "I am a rich millionaire and want a real katana made by a certified Japanese master sword smith from Japan." A: Good luck. Waiting lists start at around 5 years and go up to over 15. Prices start at around $10,000 and they don't have web sites and probably don't take visa. More awesome information about what's avaiable: http://208.63.68.209/sword_dimensions.htm