Sauzin

Kata. 'nuf said.

In our school we teach as a primary principle to move off line. People often translate this to "don't get hit". And indeed it would be great if this happened to be the case. But if you go into a fight with the mentality of avoiding being hit as though your opponent would score a point if he hit you, then you are guaranteed to get hit, and likely go down. So I think the better principle to go by is "Protect yourself while putting yourself into a superior position." Getting hit is inconsequential, the real question is, are you in a superior position? Do you have control? Who's injury is going to allow them to go home? He might touch you with his fist or he might not. If your technique is good it won't matter. The important thing to remember is that it's not a game of tag.

Thanks Shorin-Ryuu. I'm sure in Kyokushin there are people who want different things out of the art. What most of us see are the guys focusing on the tournaments so we do tend to see Kyokushin more from that perspective. However I have read articles that indicate Kyokushin has a good deal of practical street defense, grappling, and ground work. Of course this will vary with the instructor and even the students just like in any style. What I was trying to point out is what traditional Okinawan kata brings to the table in Karate. A lot of the intricacies taught by these very precise and age proven kata seem to be missing or simply not emphasized in what I have seen in Kyokushin. I personally believe that an art is not complete without these things and the end result is as Shorin-Ryu said. You spend a lot more time working to get a similar end result instead of having an art form that emphasizes these small things from the beginning. Frankly in seeing the video linked in this post it shows. There is a serious lack of real power and hip mobility in the techniques. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they aren't full contact. And I'm not saying bones don't get broken and blood wouldn't be spilt. But you take two thugs off the street and you can get that much. Power is, well, something you just have to see or feel. When real power is introduced into a technique it doesn’t matter if the guy is conditioned or even if there happens to be an arm or hand in the way. True focus and power doesn’t leave something standing after it reaches its target. If power like that were taught in Kyokushin then their tournaments would either be different or a lot less popular. Karate went through this phase, and you should see the gear they came up with to prevent lethal injuries. Broken bones and blood are still common at full contact tournaments in Okinawa even with this gear. Power like this isn't accomplished by just pounding the heck out of people. It is just one thing out of a full and complete range of fighting principles taught and accomplished through kata. And it's all in the little things.

Kobudo is a term used to refer to Okinawan weapon arts. If you have the patience and focus for Kyudo then I would suggest the following arts: Traditional Okinawan Karate (such as Issin-ryu, Goju-ryu, Shorin-ryu, Okinwan Kenpo, Ryuryu, Ueichi-ryu, etc..) Pros - Very effective street applications when taught traditionally. - Kata offers many of the same benefits of Kyudo in terms of meditative motion. - Most are taught in conjunction with Kobudo weapon arts. - Lineage that is traceable hundreds of years back. Cons - Hard to differentiate between authentic karate dojos and mc'dojos using the term "Karate" unless you know what you are looking for. - Uniquely Okinawan which in many ways is not exactly the same thing as "Japanese" if that is what you are looking for. - When first practiced is often seen as a "hard" style though higher ranks offer both hard and soft techniques. Aikido Pros - Very fluid and soft motions. - Many philosophical aspects that fit very well with Kyudo. - Jo and sword weaponry traditionally are taught with this style as well. - Japanese Cons - Takes a few years of practice before it really becomes street applicable (personal opinion). Jujitsu Pros - Very street effective against one opponent. - Lineage that is traceable hundreds of years back. - Japanese. Cons - Not quite as effective against multiple opponents. - Very specialized. - No weapon training.

That's the very same year I was born. That just goes to show. For some knowledge is a thing that is learned, for others it is an experiance. Then there's old fogies who have been kicking around dirt since before it was dirt. Got to watch out for them. Me I've had a black belt for a little over 5 years now and haven't yet gotten started. My style is also next to my handle on the left.

I practice kata because kata is like a book written by generations of masters who have devoted their lives to martial arts. Some kata are two man drills. The existence of a partner is not relevant. The way the techniques are performed, the transitions, the timing, the stances, and the pattern are the relevant points. It trains your body to respond and your mind to be quiet. Traditional kata are not made up by one man who thought he knew something. They are a compilation of refinements on techniques, tried and tested by generations. Most (if not all) traditional martial arts understand these values.

I don't know too much about Kyokushin but I know enough to say that this is not true. One could defiantly argue the semantics of calling Kyokushin "traditional". My personal opinion is that it is not. But as a comparative analysis I would say that very old schools of traditional karate and old Chinese arts spend just as much time on ground work, grappling, and contact. What you don't see quite as much emphasis on in Kyokushin is the finer points of taisabaki, energy work, soft/effortless technique, and some of the little things in kata like why does one hand chamber palm up and the other down before a low x-block or why do you look to the 45 right before a lifting your leg in nihanchi. And without knowing (or even having) all these little things, I would have to wonder how a style would consider itself the most complete traditional style out there. Traditional styles, ones practiced the same way for 2 or 3 hundred years, are as complete as complete gets. A style that has been "created" in the last 100 years might want to wait a century or two before it tries to take the title of most complete. In my opinion it takes at least that long to find out. Kyokushin seems to be a good style though with good emphasis on practicality, conditioning, and focus. But there is nothing new under the sun. Kyokushin practitioners should understand that they are not the first to want the advantage of an inclusive art. Martial artists have been working on that for millenniums.

Yes Okinawan Kenpo (Nakimura Shigero line) does officially have cat stances as does Okinawan Goju-Ryu.

Most don't have blades. They are used for reinforsing a fist, hammerfist strikes, and as an extreemly effective grappling aid (bending joints, applying pressure, and leverage). You really have to see someone get taken down with one of those things to understand.

I would also like to apoligize for getting up on a soapbox here. But some of the above comments really struck me as having a serious lack of concern for human life and reflected very poorly on responsible weapon use which I think should be promoted rather the enjoyment of hurting other people with weapons.

Yea just like a Bruce Lee flick! And wouldn't it be great if that person died after the first clunk to his head? That way his parents, kids, and friends could all suffer because he made one stupid mistake. Oh and don't forget the legal proceedings afterwards. Let’s see who's going to look like the bad guy? Would that be the dead guy who died due to a multitude of blunt trauma impacts and may have had a knife (according to the killer that is) or would that be the guy who caries nunchaku around who seemed to be just itching to try them out? Oh yea I would love to be that defendant. Can you say 25 years to life? Wake up! The nunchaku are a dangerous weapon to both yourself and your opponent. No one in their right mind who knows anything about them would want to use them against anyone. There's movies and then there’s reality. Which one do you live in?

I agree.

I don't carry anything while walking. I have a large assortment of weapons sitting in my car and I am never far from it. Chances are should a confrontation occur I would not have a chance to get to them though. That's why I train with a broad spectrum of weapons and techniques that I can use no matter what I happen to put in my hand. Be it a stick, rock, pen, rope, arm, finger, head, whatever.

grumble...grumble …gahhh! <----!DISCLAIMER! The following is just a personal opinion----> The value of kata does not exist in what move comes in what order. The moves (highblock, step, lowblock, step punch, turn swing) are almost irrelevant. It is the manner by which the movements are done that makes the kata. While the movements do matter, they only matter because of the means by which they are performed. The purpose of the individual moves is entirely lost without the idiosyncrasies and details of their performance. It is not possible to convey the meaning and manner of the movements through just text. You have to see it, experience it, and practice it systematically. What that last part means is you have to learn it in a certain manner. One specific step at a time with guidance. The end result is not otherwise obtainable. This is the nature of real kata. I would seriously suggest making up your own kata before incorporating a kata that you only have a text description of. Study video tapes, books, and pictures of the weapons use then design defenses based on your studies. The movements would match their application and performance better this way. You would understand what you were doing because you designed the movement and in the process of designing it you would likely learn more then interpreting a text description. A "legit" kata cannot be learned from solely from a text description. You will be impersonating movements without meaning and those who could verify the legitimacy of your kata would think very poorly of your instructor. Better again to make a kata from scratch that can be judged on its own merit. I am not encouraging making up kata as a good idea in general. But it's a comparably better option then learning a kata from a text in my opinion. The only option that would provide you with results worth your time is to find an instructor. But you already know that.

First I'd like to agree with everything Shorin Ryuu said. Having done that I would like to take a quick detour and talk about the movie Electra. First I would like to say that I am a comic fan. While I don't have a huge collection I am a pen and ink artist myself and have long thought that comics were a grossly overlooked means of story telling. Many of the more recent comic book movies (Spiderman, Xmen) I have really enjoyed. With that said I did get dragged to Electra. Here's a review from a martial perspective. Without a doubt, Electra has the worst choreography I have ever seen. I've haven’t even seen a low budget 80's Hong Kong bar fight scene that looked as bad as what was in Electra. It was horrible from every possible perspective. The camera work was horribly choppy. There was one scene with decent camera work where a bunch of white sheets were falling, but of course for 90% of it you couldn't see the actors so that helped a lot. Jennifer Garner is a great actress, don't get me wrong. But she's one of these few people who truly has no natural physical talent for fighting WHAT SO EVER! Her confidence is not faked very well as the moves she performs seem timid and scared. There is no flow or control. Her fists are often not even straight. She can't keep her hands up. And her punches look more like awkward slaps. She would fail an audition for She-spies (seriously). Her sai use is best described as basic baton work sped up by a camera. During most of the movie she holds it with the wrong grip. The point where I just about lost it was when she was fighting a katana wielding opponent and she blocked chop after chop with four of her fingers firmly protecting the top of the prongs she was blocking with. While her fight movements were terrible, the villains surprisingly weren't much better. The main bad guy wielded katanas and the most impressive thing he could do with them was whirl them around with his arms fully extended. He looked like a teenage mutant ninja turtle doll. After he was defeated by Electra simply stabbing the guy (good thing she didn’t think of that before) I was at the point where if there was another fight screen I would have walked out of the theater to get a drink and not come back. Thankfully the very last villain to die was killed by Electra throwing her sai no less then 100 feet. Twirling through bushes all the way until it stuck straight through its target. The acting was good, the script was passable, and the story line was non-existent. But for anyone who really knows the sai, there will be moments where this movie will likely be physically painful.

Yup no prongs on that one. Still the ones on the site you showed seem to be too small. What do you think about the top middle pictured hoe on the link I provided?

I'll give you the fact that he didn't ask whether he should or should not. But then again people often get more then they ask for in both this forum and life. If my answers had to be like Burger King meals and they were all custom order "have it your way" specials then I don't think I would be here. "Yes I would like my answer without lettuce or tomato and could you please not mention that what I am asking will ruin a masterfully crafted, fully functional weapon." No, sorry that's not how that works. He asked a question and I found more to answer in the context of his question rather then specifically what he was asking for. I took a bigger picture perspective and decided to answer. And I think he and many others including myself would be missing a lot of value if things couldn't be done this way. When I ask a question I don't always know the subject well enough to know if I'm even asking the right question. People should be allowed expound on other people's questions for this reason. It is in everyone's best interest. If people have a problem with this then they should ignore the replies they don't want and find what they need. But they should at least have the option. Now back to the question. You will have a difficult time finding a production sai that isn't hollow, in fact I've never seen one. Still if you want something that looks like an Electra sai then why not look into replica weapons. I'm sure there are even people out there who are making these weapons somewhat functional especially after a big movie like Electra comes out. Check out e-bay or other replica blade sites. If they don't have what you are looking for call them up and ask. You might be surprised as to what they can offer. Further more I wouldn't call spear heading the tip of the rod a "blade". I would suggest telling them you would like the tip sharpened on both the tip and the sides like a spear head. This would still be best used for piercing. I still hold that doing this to a Shuriedo sai would be the most expensive way you could go about doing what you want to do. And the functionality of the weapon would be reduced. If you want to be proud to hang an authentic pair of sai then don't modify them so that they aren't authentic. If your friends don't think they are cool, you can show them by demonstrating on cardboard or foam exactly how effective authentic weapons are, assuming you've been trained in their proper use of course.

Yea that's a koa, can't quite tell if it is forked or not from the picture though and the handle is a little longer then I am used to. You might ask your sensie if they should be pronged because the two different ones I've worked with were. You know I doubt it would really matter though. Still the last link you posted didn't have anything even close. The "small garden hoe" and the "potting hoe" will not work and the "nurigama", "garden trenching hoe", and "Planting hoe" are all too short. Not even 2ft in lenght. And the blades are all too small. Seriously the link I posted is the only thing I think that is out there. I would love to be proven wrong though.

You see I'm still not getting you on the whole "bladed" thing. Are you saying that you want to make them pointed? Are you saying that you want to sharpen the sides? Are you saying you want to pound the rod flat and turn it into a blade? In terms of weapons the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a blade as: "3 a : the cutting part of an implement" Sai don't cut. You can pierce but you cannot cut with a sai. You can cut with a dagger. You might even be able to pound a sai into a dagger (though if it is properly tempered I doubt it). But you can't cut with a sai. The sai has no blade. Now you say you are proficient with sai. Then you should know this. You should also know that a sai is primarily a striking weapon. It is made to hit people with the end of the metal rod. Doing so allows you to put bullet size wholes in your target and is very effective. You should also know that piercing flesh with a blunt tip is much faster, stronger, and releases easier then stabbing with a point. You would also likely know that the Shureido sai are perfectly balanced and any modification should not be made lightly. Here's a suggestion. If you want an authentic pair of sai then buy a pair of Shureido's. If you want a dagger replica then buy a dagger replica. But why would you waist a lot of money on a authentic weapon then ruin it by pounding it or sharpening the point only to put the atrocity on display. If you are a metal worker then buy yourself a rod and work/weld it into the desired shape yourself. But don't take an authentic work of art and basterdize it by removing the beauty and purpose of its design. Please start with something that doesn't already have these attributes and add your own beauty and purpose to it.

Bladed?!? What exactly do you mean by bladed?

Well, correct me if I'm wrong here. But a koa is generally a 3 prong forked hoe. It's a two handed weapon and the metal prongs meet up with the end of the handle at about a 70 - 80 degree angle. Assuming this is what you know as a koa, then the link you provided doesn't contain anything even similar. The only thing with 3 prongs and a handle is way too small. Correct me if we are not talking about the same thing.

OK I thought this would be a challenge, and it was. After an ungodly amount of searching I came up with this: http://www.lovson.com/agricultural.html Take a look at the bottom of the page, middle picture. That's about the closest thing to a koa I could find. Attach that to a good sized maybe 2 1/2 - 3 ft hickory handle and you've got yourself a mighty fine koa.

Check out this topic: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=15931

Check out this topic: http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=16636

Outside the houses with the nice men in white pajamas and padded rooms I imagine there are few.