Sauzin

As has already been mentioned, a very important piece of your question was left out. That is whether or not the new school you are going to is a different style. If it's the same style and they don't want you to continue to ware your rank then it could be seen as a minor sign of disrespect or disagreement by your new school with your old sensei. However I highly doubt that this is the case. It is much more likely that this is a similar but different style, maybe another Okinawan Karate, but still something different. In this case allowing you to start at green is in fact a serious offer of respect and consideration for your old school and sensei that you should not expect to receive everywhere. Allowing you to start at green in another style tells you that they believe that your ranking in your other style translates to your new style so well as to be given at least 5 ranks in a style that you really have no direct experience in. That's really an amazing show of faith and respect because you are not entitled to any ranking in any style you have not spent the time in to receive. My suggestion is that you humble yourself and understand that in terms of rank you are comparing apples to oranges. A black belt in one style does not denote any knowledge or ranking of any other style but the one you received it in and should not be compared. Go to class realizing that you are a beginner and novice in this new style and you just might learn something. Go in thinking you already know a lot and you are probably wasting everyone's time.

I don't mean to be insulting but it doesn't seem from your paragraph there that you have a very good understanding of kata at all. Specifically in regards to the two hands on your hip thing, it's an uncommon move in our kata, however we do use it. And it’s a great move. You see when we grab someone or something we bring it to our hips. In other words we chamber when we grab. I don't suppose you've ever seen a fight where someone grabbed someone else did you? How about when they grabbed them and pulled them in low? That's a two handed chamber my friend. How often does a guy get his chin punched after he's grabbed someone like that? Never, if he's doing right. In regards to a horse stance. When a guy goes in deep for a grapple the defender always does one of two things. He gets his feet the heck out of the way and then often gets thrown down another way, or he takes a very deep stance and fights against the opponent's balance. That's what a horse stance is for. You don't assume a horse stance while you're still exchanging strikes, in most cases that's just plain stupid. You assume it when you need balance and your in close. So why practice blocks and strikes in a horse stance you might ask. Well a lot of blocks and strikes make great grappling moves and throws when you grab something. Also I follow the general principle of grappling to get into a better position to strike some more. Mobility is key in a boxing match or while sparring, but when you've grabbed each other all the hopping, bobbing, and weaving in the world won't do you any good. Being able to assume a strong stance quickly and in the right position is what determines who's hitting the concrete and who's in control. Kata doesn't teach boxing. Karate fighters don't just stand there and exchange punches. If you think of kata in just striking, punching, and kicking terms, it's not just impractical it's dumb. Karate fighters penetrate, they grab, they throw, they lock down, they break, and they strike a couple of times in the process. Think of this when you watch kata and you just might see something.

Bo for all around favorite. Eku for just plain fun.

120miles! Geeze that's at least 2 hours drive one way. You don't have all your classes that far away do you? Back to the subject at hand. Just before I moved to Boise, ID from Okinawa, my Goju instructor did a web search for any Goju schools in the area. I think the closest one he found was in Canada some 6 or 7 hours drive away. Needless to say, I was really discouraged when I first got to Boise. But I checked out some other schools at the request of some of my relatives, and found an amazing instructor in about the least likely place you could imagine. Although he didn't practice Goju he was somehow familiar with all the principles I had been taught and even knew a Goju kata or two. I was impressed that a teacher from what I thought was a radically different style was able to build on the same principles I learned in Goju. I guess the moral of the story is, a good teacher is a good teacher regardless of the style. Most basic principles are the same across karate styles (some even across other styles), so you don't necessarily have to throw away every thing that you've learned if you switch. Keep an alert eye and an open mind and the right teacher should present themselves. Sometimes you have to go looking in unlikely places however.

Before my sensei had a heart attack I had the opportunity to spar with him a couple of times. I remember the first time that we sparred, being surprised the when he took a rather low stance thinking, "Well maybe I've got a bigger, slower target." Then I remember getting this sudden feeling like a train was rushing toward me. It's almost as if he hit me before he was even in reach. Needless to say I learned a lot about the value of balance and how fast an old man can move. I have also had the opportunity of being an uke in several of my sensei’s demonstrations on stage and at seminars. I was very pleased with the amount of force that my sensei felt comfortable dealing out when working with me. It told me that he trusted my reaction and training enough to put a lot into it. It also gave me the opportunity to know what I could take. I've been bruised, left a bit sore, and given a fat lip once in a great while. But I have never been seriously injured by my sensei. A testament to his skill and control as well as his teaching.

I think there might be a reason for such a large difference in how people view kata. I don't want to be disrespectful or insulting but fact is a lot of the kata out there is shallow. And if someone where to see such an example for kata I could completely understand why they would think that kata has limited combat effectiveness. What do I mean by shallow kata? Well when someone decides to teach a kata who doesn't understand how kata is applied and interpreted, a lot is lost. If a kata goes through say 2 or more transitions between the unknowing it gets to a point where there really isn't much more to it then a block here, a punch there, and maybe something fancy in-between that you shouldn't ever use in a real fight because "that's not what kata is for". I mean think about it. Considering the masses of people who train in some kind of "karate" be it Okinawan, Japanese, or Korean and considering how long it has existed in the modern age where a promotion means a quick buck without any means of quality control how could degradation not happen? In fact it happens a lot. I would go so far as to say that the majority of kata out there has suffered some kind of degradation or "watering down" effect. So you’ve got this pool of kata that unless you know a lot about kata already you have no way of judging the difference between the real thing and the imitation. Why should anyone be expected to see value? But obviously there is something because there are a lot of awfully good fighters out there who swear by it. So what’s the answer? Before you give your final judgment on the value of kata, make sure you are making your judgment based on the real thing. So the all important question becomes how do I know if I’m being taught is the real thing? The answer isn't very simple but there are some key indicators or questions that you should ask the guy teaching you that might help: Question: How many teachers are between me the origininator of the kata and what where their motivations? Reason: If you can't trace your lineage then you don't know what you are getting for kata. Knowing your teachers means you know the quality of the material. And if there is no lineage, then there is no kata. Question: Can the guy teaching me the kata show me a street application for every move in it? Reason: If the guy teaching you doesn't know then the guy teaching him might not have known and you can be sure that the kata is missing something. Question: Find the most basic move in a kata. How many applications can your teacher show you for this movement? Reason: Sometimes this means pestering the teacher a bit but it should give you a good idea of the depth of the kata he teaches. While the class constraints might stop him at 3 or 4 applications he should be capable of showing you dozens. Question: Does he ever use any of the following phrases in class? "Kata is primarily for promotions not for defense." "Never use kata while sparring." "I made up this kata when..." "I changed this kata because..." "I am better then my teacher because..." "This kata is primarily for competitions." Reason: If he does then he isn't the guy you want to rely on for passing a kata on to you accurately. I think the biggest difference between those who think kata has real combat value and those that don’t is the source of the kata they are making their judgments on. If all else fails and you still don’t see it’s value get a larger sample. Don’t just stop at one dojo and condemn all kata. You’d be surprised the difference the teacher and the quality of the kata he teaches can make.

Another aspect of Mcdojo's is that they proliferate quickly. In a matter of a year you are guaranteed to be a black belt and as a general rule anyone with a blackbelt is teaching and often encouraged to open their own dojos to make more money for their teachers. It's the pyramid scheme of martial arts only less substance.

My opinion is as a general rule less is more. I currently practice about 70 (including kobudo kata) and take it from me, that is way too many. I'd be happy if I could get down to 50. I don't think any style with weapons needs more then 50 and without weapons 20 should be enough. Just my opinion though.

There are many kata that flow and are fluid. Others that are broken down for more simplistic work and focus on individual techniques. But if a moment can't be directly applied to combat it doesn't belong in kata. Any traditional practiced karate-ka should be able take any move in any kata they do and show you how they would use it on the street. Most movements work against a wide variety of situations. Kata doesn't need to be modern because there is nothing modern melee combat. We have the same two feet, two hands, four appendages, head, and torso that we had 4,000 years ago. Blades, sticks, and rocks are still used and when you think about it the methods haven't changed that much. There is no reason a method of training and fighting won't work this year the same as it did the past 2,000 years. The scenery has changed, but that's about it. This is from a previous post I made in the weapons forum... I don't know about anyone else but I'm clapping like mad here

The sanchin is quite a bit different then anything most people have seen with Goju-ryu or Ueichi-ryu. It is close fisted but is done in a front stance and has an interesting gripping exersize near the end. I'll have to ask my sensei which Hakutsuru it is but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them was a Matsumura Hakutsuru. I do know one has a Goju-ryu lineage.

It was my understanding that Nakimura spent some time studying under Kuniyoshi, though never directly under Sakiyama, and this is where our Seisan, Niseishi, and Sanchin came from. I was also told that our Kusanku Dai was in this group of origin katas from Kuniyoshi but I could be mistaken. It was also my understanding that Kuniyoshi was the successor of Sakiyama, and Nakimura was the official successor of Kuniyoshi. This is why they say "officially Naha-te" because the line exists though few of the kata and techniques still do. You can see the official list of Okinawan Kenpo kata at: http://daisenseiodo.tripod.com/id9.html Our school does a few additional kata from Ryuryu, isshin-ryu, and Goju but for the most we practice everything on the list. I have no doubt that our sparring style was influenced by Motobu-ryu but there are some very unique aspects to the way Okinawan Kenpo goes about it. We are all about proper distancing and very strong punches, but what really gives an Okinawan Kenpo practitioner away is the stance work we use to punch. We like to bring the back foot up slightly and out to create a wider stance just before we land a punch. This moves us off line and really allows us to get our hip and body into it. This also creates kind of a diagonal shuffle that is in most of our stepping drills and kata.

One correction. Okinawan Kenpo is technically a Nahate with very heavy Shuri te and some Tomari Te influences. The root system is from Nakamura Shigeru >Kunioshi, Shinkichi>"Bushi" Sakiyama of Naha fame. Seisan, Niseishi, Sanchin, and I believe our version of Kusanku Dai are Nahate derivitives. I could certainly understand grouping it with Shuri-te just by looking at it but it is technically a Naha-te.

I think I understand the jest of what you are saying there. This defiantly exists in other martial arts though I think there are different approaches to it. Stating things like a wall moving forward seems to indicate a connected and properly aligned body while performing techniques that offer no wasted motion except that which advances forward or toward your target. Visualizing your hara in front of you seems to project intent that is past or transitions past a technique to the one following it. This may also cause the shifting of your weight to be timed slightly ahead of the stance that supports it causing your weight to drop into techniques. Other styles might point out these aspects more individually yet arrive at a similar result. Still I think this offers a very interesting way of describing and visualizing these things as a single concept.

Yea actually that's something that most of us traditionalists will agree on. If you are using nunchaku as a weapon then they should be held at the end. Like Joe said, more power and control of the swing. It also removes the chance of getting your fingers nicked or "bitten" by the rope. From the standpoint of not hitting yourself, well if you hold them near the end and you keep you extend your arm properly in your swings then no matter how big you are this shouldn't be much of a problem. Actually it's highly unusual for any traditional weapon art to practice holding them in the middle as a standard.

OUCH! " And now class I will demonstrate how to preform Pinan shodan entirely in a left cat stance so as to simulate what to do should you loose the use of your left foot. :cry:"

I agree with this but for a different reason. Blocking motions done with the kama against the arm are actually pretty solid in my experience, but the blade will catch whatever is running toward the elbow anyway so it really doesn't matter if it is a little short. It's not like tonfa or tan bo where if it slides along the shaft it will clip your elbow as it comes down (specifically referring to high and low blocks here). With the kama a stick or arm will get caught by the blade at the end if this happens. This is why I see these motions as primarily cutting and/or trapping motions rather then blocks.

Well I got nothing against ratan staffs for training and bo tai sparring. There's a definite difference when it comes to locks and the way they feel in kata but it's just like sparring gear in that it helps you learn distancing and get the feel for impact without getting hurt or damaging your bo. When it comes to kamas we only use live blades in our school. Now it is important to mention that in our school you don't even pick up a pair until about 2nd dan where as we use the bo from white belt on up. And when a 2nd dan starts with the kama they start slow and usually stay slow for at least a year or two until they get the safeties down pat. So far my instructor hasn't had a student with a major injury. I have to admit I once did scratch myself slightly when I first got started with these but haven't had the problem since and have since worked up in speed. It's a whole new level of awareness and while I certainly understand the value of not being cut, thus far for our class we haven't had that problem. Of course not starting kama ‘till 2nd dan might have something to do with that.

Woah, whoah, whoa I just heard that only 3 of us have confirmed here. Surely we can do better then that!

I really like Shorin-ryuu's response. That pretty much nails the down and dirty of kata. You could mention the meditative aspects as well, but as a whole it trains your body in breath and motion to move in and through positions of combative biomechanical superiority. How this movement is applied can vary but the idea is that they work not because of their application (block, punch, etc) but because of their inherent biomechanics. Thus the movement of a "blocking" motion can become a strike, a throw, a grapple, a disarm, a knock out, a counter, or simply a transition to a position that allows for any of the prior, even if an appropriate target does not present itself at that particular moment. This is why kata flows and is not merely a collection of techniques but rather of refined movement through superior positions that can be applied to whatever situation you might encounter in a fight.

There's definitely a balance you have to have. You can't correct everything at once or the student will learn nothing. On the other hand if you ignore too much then they will begin to develop bad habits that will take even longer to break then if you had just spent a little extra time correcting it up front. Of course singling a person out can mean a couple of things. Often there are specific things that an instructor needs everyone in the class to have down before he can start teaching something new. Even if there are other portions of the technique that other people don't have down as well, if you are missing that aspect that is needed to learn what the instructor is teaching next then that is what he will have you work on until you get it down. Sometimes there are several somethings. Getting singled out can definitely be a humbling experience. Especially the way my sensei does it. But like I'm sure you know it's worth it. And if the quality of the technique the students are displaying says anything, it says the teacher knows what needs to be corrected and when.

Their heart, or center chest. This gives you vision of the entire body. If you look at the face the feet dissapear. If you look at one hand the other hand dissapears. If you look at the eyes you can be mislead or tranfixed. Instead your eyes should rest at your opponent's center chest and you should see everything.

Bo

Hmmm...let's see what is more practical? Knocking people around with sticks thinking that it is anything similar to a real sword fight (not that you will likely have a sword should a confrontation occur) or a series of techniques that can be applied with or without a sword that refine both physical movement and mental discipline? Don't get me wrong, I like kendo, it's a lot of fun and there are good things you can learn from it. But even kendo has kata (cutting exercises that are done repetitively). You'd be hard pressed to find any martial art that doesn't have some kind of solitary practice routine that trains "muscle memory" and proper technique. And every time that someone says something to the effect of practical combat training being different or not the focus of kata I can't help but to groan. It's like a fairy dieing every time someone says "I don't believe in fairies." only the fairies are very real and they aren't actually fairies, they are the potential a person has as a martial artist.

So you're stopping it against the inside of your arm as opposed to the against your ribs/chest area? Does this create a gap between the bo and your body?

Traditionally it reflects poorer on the teacher then it does the student if the student fails a test. As a general rule, Okinawans have a tendency to avoid such public acts of humiliation so they won't test you until they know you're darn good and ready. So a test is more to push you past the point you thought you could go to and to celebrate the achievement of reaching that point or level in your art.