Sho-ju

From what I've read, he seems to have left the national sport karate seen a while ago. Thanks.

It's been said and written about many times by early shotokan karateka, Yoshitaka did the changes but it was always with the ok of his father. I've also read that Yoshitaka was greatly respected on Okinawa, this accounts for the masters on the island teaching him kata. One article (can't remember where, but easy to find on google) stated that when Yoshitaka entered the dojo the whole atmosphere changed. Here's a little more I found: The development of modern day Shotokan, can be in the most part, accredited to Gichin Funakoshi's third son, Yoshitaka. It is Yoshitaka's influence that has resulted in the karate that Shotokan exponents practice today. Yoshitaka is known to have developed longer, deeper stances to create more strength, his kicks were more dynamic and the attacking techniques were developed even further. Around 1930, Yoshitaka took over the running of his fathers main dojo in Japan. Yoshitaka was instrumental in introducing many more katas to the Shotokan system which he had learned from Sensei Azato. Yoshitaka was ill, however, and was told when he was a boy that he would not live beyond his twenties due to tuberculosis. However, through hard training he lived into his fortys. Yoshitaka taught at the Shotokan dojo until 1944/45 but by 1945 he was seriously ill and much of the teaching was carried out by Genshin Hironishi. Without a doubt from 1932/33 until 1945, Yoshitaka had a enormous influence on the way Shotokan karate developed. However when he died, Gichin Funakoshi had to come out of "retirement" to take over from where his son had left off, to oversee the training at the Shotokan. http://www.the-esa.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/karateorig.htm So much of karate history is conjecture, I guess that's the problem with spoken history. sj

Shorinryu Sensei, any thoughts on McCathy? I've heard mostly good things about the man.

With respect, I disagree. I too have trained and continue to train in Matsubayashi ryu, I think we differ in our understanding of circles in training. A soft style, as I understand it, would be some styles of wushu. Using swinging motions for attack and defence. And for the record, Shotokan stylests have bias as well and it was never my intention to state other wise. OSU! sj

Anyone study the above style?

Just wanted to start a thread about the different aspects of Shotokans history, etc. I'm not claiming to know the history of Shotokan, but will post links and quotes, if the info presented is wrong feel free to correct it. I'll start off with a quote, please add. I guess the real history of modern Shotokan can be found not in Gichin Funakoshi but his son Yoshitaka, who is often given credit for making the jutsu into a do. It is Yoshitaka that has resulted in the karate that Shotokan exponents today practice Yoshitaka is known to have developed longer, deeper stances to create more strength, his kicks were more dynamic and the attacking techniques were developed even further all with the patronage of his father. Around 1930, Yoshitaka took over the running of his fathers main dojo in Japan and continued until 1944/45. Yoshitaka was instrumental in introducing many more katas to the Shotokan system which he had learned from Azat. He was also instrumental in developing katas such as Ten No Kata, Chi No Kata, Hito No Kata, the five Heian katas, the three Tekki katas, Kanku Dai, Kanku Sho, Empi, Gankaku, Jutte, Hangetsu, Jion, Meikyo. http://www.esakarate.freeserve.co.uk/brief_history_of_shotokan_karate.htm

You're not bursting my bubble, it's a quote! Shorin is also considered a hard style, a hard style is considered such because they use less circular movements. As for using strength to transition...yes and no. We use strength in low stances to build power (like many older Chinese style do), however, shotokan kumite isn't done in such a manner. A blanket statement tends to cast shotokan in a negitive light, as if we use strength to overcome an attack. The rest of your comments show a common bias Okinawan stylests have tend to have toward shotokan. sj

Where are you from, I don't usally see shotokan with a ryu on the end...we sometimes use that term in our dojo. OSU!

Has anyone picked this book up yet? Quote from Amazon: Learn how the hard-style karate that became shotokan took shape in 19th century Okinawa as an embattled king with an unarmed force of bodyguards faced an armed invasion from overseas. In this new 328-page book, author Bruce D. Clayton, Ph.D., uses rare sketches, footnoted historical research, archival lithographs, period photographs and contemporary technique demonstrations to reveal shotokan’s deadly intent and propose modern practical applications of such knowledge. Achieve a new level of theoretical understanding and fighting ability by learning Shotokan’s Secret for yourself!

Good posts. I live in Ontario Canada, not much in the way of traditional shotokan. My sensei moved to town from Scotland and was a member of both SKI and JKA...he had a nidan from both. We trained independent of any shotokan group, when I earned my shodan I had it confirmed by a karate org that exists as an umbrella group covering Chinese, Japanese and Okinawan styles. I continued training under Koshinrin Budo Kai and earned my nidan. Our kata are different because of the different influances, we remain shotokan in essence, but some of our kihon are different and we include more Okinawan versions of kata, this is all done under the direction of the KBK. Because the KBK is has an open format, I'm able to train with other shotokan dojo and continue to learn shotokan kata without all the politics of big groups. sj

What type of kumite drills do you use in your dojo? What is Motobu kumite?

I found a list of the kata included in the book on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/096690480X/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-8041662-7408620#reader-page

Start with light strikes, always take it easy when you start.

Just wanted to start a thread for shotokan karateka.... How long you been training, with who, what kata's do you study, have you cross trained at all?

Thanks for the lists of kata, but does anyone have the book?

Gankaku Wanshu Ananku Tekki It changes daily as I study.

Of course he is... ...or then he's grabbing the guy's wrist and striking the face with a sharp knuckle - without any scientifically unverfiable meridian mumbo-jumbo. He might actually teach something about no-nonsense fighting there. That's what I was thinking...why does it always come down to, 'bladder 5, spleen 6, etc?' PP's are for those who like a heady knowledge without the blood, sweat and tears. Nice one.

I disagree. As a shotokan karateka, I have to give credit to Yoshikaka (Gigo) Funakoshi for the deep and wide stances. Even jj or kendo or judo or whatever people try to say was mixed in, doesn't use the kind of deep stance Gigo is seen doing and Shotokai is known for teaching. Gigo should be studied more in depth, it seems he taught at the Shotokan for 15 years and made most of the changes with his fathers backing. After study, I understand why he made the changes and agree with many of them...he added more kicks, higher kicks and use of full leg extension when kicking. The deep stances added a mental aspect to training, you against the stance. I don't know, I'm still learning. Random thoughts.... sj

Does anyone have this book? Which kata is missing? What do you think of it?

Here's a link with some basic stances. http://www.nbkarateclub.it/gichin/basic3.html

Funakoshi used a lot of high stances compared to what we see today, it also looks like a lot more time was spent on takedowns and stand up grappling. Looks higher then tekki as seen today, it's more of naihanchi. http://www3.sympatico.ca/aikiwoman/Funakoshi.JPG http://karatedojo.uazone.net/img/prakt/dzkd/Funakoshi%20Low%20Stance.JPG More reading: http://www.shotojuku.com/karate_history.htm http://karatedojo.uazone.net/img/prakt/dzkd/Funakoshi-Hi-Low.jpg http://membres.lycos.fr/fsklg/photos/funakoshi06.jpg Notice the grabbing of the attack. http://www.shinan.it/karate/immagini/funak2.jpg http://www.amerikanjudo.org/funakoshi.jpg Short hangetsu dachi. http://www.nbkarateclub.it/gichin/altre-foto/hn-3.jpg I had a link at one time with a ton of pic's of Funakoshi doing takedowns, etc. I'll try and find it, then post it. Hope the old pic's help, do a quick search for Funakoshi's son Gigo if you want to learn more about the changes made. Not all of them are bad, contary to what 'some' may say. peace sj

Again, Master Julies?

I did Meibukan. Don't mean to offend, how did you get the title of master? Are you a master of goju? Who gave you the title or is it just your handle on the net? sj

I think Wu Shen is the name of a monk or something, I don't know what the Chinese name for the school is.

Master Jules, I understand countless repetitions, my rank is in shotokan. My point is, none of the training in goju that I encountered was difficult or advanced, that is also why I posted that it could've been the dojo I train at. It was the weakest karate dojo I've ever trained in.