Shorin Ryuu

Eh, you call it "Yakusoku", you mean.

I train at Sam Ahtye's Shorinkan Shorin Ryu Karate dojo (Okinawan karate) that is located at SomArts Culture and Arts Center (or something like that) by 8th and Brannan. Of course, I'm leaving California on the 29th of this month. He usually only takes new students from after Labor Day to around Thanksgiving, so if you are interested, I would check him out soon. He teaches class on Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays from 5 - 7:30. We do a mix of weapons and empty hand.

That was my first thought. At any rate, I will echo the thoughts of many. There is no point in running away, fighting off one opponent, running away again...etc. If you are fast enough to do that, then you are fast enough to just get away. And the whole Rurouni Kenshin thing...that was talking about literally killing people quickly with a sword as you did it...most likely not the situation you are thinking of. Much respect to Watsuki Nobuhiro's work, but it isn't a good idea to pull tactics out of manga and into real life. Unless of course you can yell out the name of an attack really fast. Then you just get cool points (or clobbered).

shaolin10, just to help us frame the debate, do you mean in a street fight or during sparring? If in a street fight, I would recommend moving in close to kick his legs/knees, since he would not be expecting it as much (being a boxer). If you try too much to stay "outside of range", it is just asking for him to shoot in and wail away at you.

You have to understand this discussion was taking place before the concept of having rigid style delineations and staying solely under one instructor or method of training took root on Okinawa. This was in the 1930s, right at the cusp of transition from "traditional karate" to "modern karate".

You'd probably have to do the same thing a boxer does (which fortunately are also part of good karate): keep the hands up, work the angle, and don't try to "hard block" him. An oversimplification, but just some tips. Also, you can try doing the above and getting in close to take him down (if allowed?). If you want to trap his arms, it's pretty much going to have to be a one-handed/arm trap or press in conjunction with something else (see below). Due to the speed, it is foolhardy to try and grab his arms all day Another tip is simultaneous blocking/parrying/slipping/whatever and hitting. If you can hit him as you neutralize his attack, he may not be expected it as much. But if you want the most bang for your buck in the least amount of time, work on working the angle. The rest of the stuff will follow. It certainly isn't an exhaustive list, but just a few tips.

I'm sure many of those stories are myth and those that weren't, didn't happen at all that often. There were probably cases where martial artists on Okinawa defeated some Japanese, but I'm sure there were certain factors. 1. The Okinawan may have not been a simple farmer, but a bushi, guard, or constable and hence very experienced with fighting. Possibly having a weapon as well. 2. The samurai may have been drunk or simply not that good. Simply being a samurai doesn't mean you were necessarily great at fighting (especially during the Tokugawa era...). 3. Some mixture of the the above. There does seem to be this impression that samurai walked around Okinawan causing trouble ALL THE TIME like Trogdor, only with less burnination (no, I can't believe I just wrote that). I don't think that was always necessarily the case. At any rate, a very competent karateka would still have difficulty defeating a reasonably competent swordsman.

He was referring to the fact that various karateka (I think Itosu may have been one of them, in fact) who referred to there being two main branches of Okinawan te: Shorin Ryu (Shuri Te) and Shorei Ryu (Naha Te). Then he says there is no clear evidence to support or deny this. I'll just quote from McCarthy's translation of it, but Miyagi puts it this way: "If forced to distinguish the differences between these sects, then I would have to say that it is only the teaching methods that divide them. Shorin-ryu's fundamental training [kihon] and open-hand techniques [kaishu] are not taught in any cleary defined way. However, the Shorei-ryu kaishu and kihon are taught according to a clearly established method. My teacher taught us according to the Shorei-ryu method." In other words, Miyagi was saying that those who identify with "Shorei Ryu" have a very clearly defined methodology of teaching their basics and kata was more or less the same. Shorin Ryu, on the other hand, was far more personalized in terms of instruction style and method. [This is highlighted as one of the reasons why the Japanese initially viewed karate as a crude and unrefined art as it was taught quite different than the very formalized and structured curriculum based ways that the Japanese taught their martial arts] That's what I got from it, anyway.

I see. My comments were based on what my Japanese teachers have told me over the years and the three trips I spent in Japan (a month, ten days and a week). But since your experience greatly dwarfs mine in this respect, I'll take your word for it.

That seems like it. I've seen it on the web as "Heian Ohio", but that was in another language. Edit: Good info. (So...originally I typed "Goof info"...oops)

Bump. 24fightingchickens: Doesn't the fact that most Japanese use the onyomi for counting for all the numbers except for shi and shichi add credence to the superstition argument? If there was no argument, you would have more of them saying "shi" and "shichi" instead of "yon" and "nana". (I've already said that it appears karateka aren't superstitious...)

Yes. But as the founder of your style stated: "They say that karate-do has two separate sects: Shorin-ryu and Shorei-ryu. However, there is no clear evidence to support or deny this." There are some obvious differences between the two of them now. But there was much more interplay between them back then. Even now, the differences are still a lot less than between other styles of fighting.

Was this a statement attributed to him? I highly doubt it. Whatever my opinion of his karate skills, he was an educated man and not likely to make such an erroneous conclusion. Actually, the widespread adoption of the name "empty hand" is half Funakoshi's philosophical efforts and half a marketing scheme...Japan's growing nationalism meant that anything Chinese was BAD...(to the Japanese). If you can find a copy of McCarthy's translation of the 1936 "Meeting of the Masters", I recommend it. They discuss the adoption of of "empty hand" over the current and more common "China hand". Hanashiro Chomo noted he was the first one to use the word "karate" (empty hand) in publication. Miyagi noted that the term toudi was a general term that most all people knew, but most people just used "ti". Shimabukuro Zenpatchi noted that toudi was a term for more Chinese-influenced arts and ti was more Okinawan methods. But essentially, they decided to adopt the name karatedo because it was more popular with the young kids, Japan was militaristic (and objected to the name China), and they were afraid that if they still used toudi, the mainlanders would forget that Okinawa was the source of Japanese karatedo. I think my favorite line from the whole exchange was this: Miyagi: They say that karate-do has two separate sects: Shorin-ryu and Shorei-ryu. However, there is no clear evidence to support or deny this.

The important thing is do whatever kata you can do that convinces the judges that you know what you are doing. Sadly, this does allow for a lot of "confident crap" to be scored really well in my opinion. But again, you have to look like you know what you are doing and express your emotion through your kata. Or some other phrase artsy thing like that... As far as my instructor goes...I don't do tournaments (nor does our dojo) and I don't think he would care what I did even if I did. We do study kata that are not in our system, so it is a bit of a non-issue. I do find it odd you are afraid to ask your instructor...All my karate teachers emphasized a friendly and cordial environment where no questions are taboo. Then again, this laid back approach may be more of an Okinawan karate thing, anyway. I've noticed some Japanese styles and many Korean styles are big into the boot-camp approach. Edit: Not that some Okinawan styles aren't sticklers for protocol and all that...

I haven't. I'm too busy gleaning the concepts from the ones I already know.

I don't buy into much of the whole sacredness of the gi and obi thing. But I think that's just ridiculous hyperbole and obviously not what he was trying to convey.

No. As people have mentioned, the Gekisai kata are some of the more basic introductory kata.

From my understanding, Shorei Ryu is another way of saying Naha Te. There may have been a style that has specifically adopted it as its name...I simply don't know off the top of my head.

It certainly quite difficult to use much of White Crane's offensive techniques without hurting the other guy, isn't it?

Maybe not in the eyes of most Americans who base their knowledge on cheap martial arts movies...

Most universities have extra-curricular clubs. It isn't part of class, but usually based at or near the university. This is differentiated from collegiate sports teams, like boxing or fencing. In these cases, it is usually a literal team.

I will try to be brief. I will answer in all sincerity and honesty and don't take this as a personal attack. You are not a warrior because people look up to you or have your name glamorized on the silver screen, alongside the ring, or anywhere else. To think so is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a warrior is. You are still very young and have a long way towards understanding what a true warrior is. In all honesty, I think you need to do a little more growing up. Dreams are nice to have, but at your age and level, all I can say is "train hard" and get some skill. Oh, and if you ever do become known, having good communication skills would be in order. What you say and do outside of your displays of combative skill are also key components of how you are viewed in the public eye. Edit: I recommend you read Forrest Morgan's "Living the Martial Way". While much of it seemed rather self-evident to me (maybe because we are both military guys), I think you could gain much from it.

Sandan level? You think so? I'm not so sure... All I've seen is some video I just downloaded off the internet, and that was broken down into segments and bunkai. It looks to me like it could be a made-up kata where the instructor took varying concepts and moves from the different heian kata and put them together. I've never heard of it before just now... Edit: Yeah, yeah, I know a kata is as advanced as the person doing it...but to say it is a sandan level kata (or even shodan?) seems a bit extreme in my opinion. Ranks being subjective, the statement is even more fuzzy.

Ohayou means "good morning" (as in a greeting, not a morning that is good). Unless it is some funny way of spelling "peaceful, good morning," I am unsure what it means.

Oh, I'll ask him next time I see him (Tuesday). I thought you were making a joke or something...sorry. My gut reaction is that he isn't making another one. But like I said, I will ask.