Shorin Ryuu

I never said that it didn't derive from White Crane style. On the contrary, I said it did. However, I was merely pointing out that it has had enough influences from things like indigenous Okinawan arts to attain enough of it's own separate standing. (For that matter, I find a label as broad as Chinese martial arts equally amusing). I wasn't seeing your post as belittling its level of development. In your defense, I too have found a lot of "karate" that is like you describe. Much of this is Japanese, although there have been many practitioners of Okinawan styles that misunderstand it all as well. But in terms of a discussion of "styles" or "systems" as a whole (instead of individual organizations or even individual schools), there is a profound difference between Okinawan and Japanese karate. The Okinawan styles are much closer to their Chinese origins, but like I said, incorporate other things to separate them in my opinion. In some cases, the indigenous arts are even softer than many Chinese schools. In the end, I think its a matter of semantics. The word karate has been tossed around to describe anything nowadays. The word itself has only been officially meant to describe Okinawan arts since 1936 anyway. I'm just trying to dispel the common misconception many people have about what I consider "true karate", which isn't "hard" and "Force against force". Cheers.

No, that wasn't what I meant. Keep on chewing, I suppose.

I'm not sure if I want to see this Elektra movie...It's kind of like watching Behind Enemy Lines after going through survival training. Sure it's Hollywood, but if you're going to have a character who loves to use the sai, she should know how to use them. Again, I haven't seen it...Anyone who has a fair working knowledge of the sai have any comments on the realistic nature of her usage (apart from the obvious action movie exaggerations)?

Actually, it depends on how you are kicking. The kick I am describing is a snapping kick and used against vulnerable and sensitive targets along the inner leg. Note that the mindset is entirely different than sparring or tournament fighting. It isn't meant to hit the opponent and push them back 20 feet. This kind of kick served two main purposes. The first was to imbalance (with the added bonus of distracting) the opponent in order to position the opponent to end the fight (meaning a takedown or other hold that could very well be fatal). The second was that it was a very serious attack in and of itself, as the nerve clusters and soft tissue are vulnerable to that kind of attack. In those days, a blood clot could easily kill, and a blood clot can be formed through a snapping toe kick to that area. Those with precision could incorporate more advanced pressure point techniques into this, but it isn't exactly necessary either. To be more exact, the kick I'm describing is little more than a front snap kick. It's simply more angled in the setup. Saying the "ura mawashigeri" is not that effective shows a lack of understanding (no offense) about this kind of kick. To ask you all a question, doesn't the you are all describing sound more like a sort of snapping hook kick or something? In which case, it is pretty effective when kicked low as well.

Once gain, whether you can rightly call karate merely a subsection of White Crane style or not (there are enough differences to have me say "not"), your generalization holds true only for "hard" Japanese styles of karate (and not even all Japanese styles adhere to this either). Okinawan karate is not like what you say at all, Emei89.

No, the execution isn't like a crescent kick. The execution is like a mawashigeri, only the setup is oriented differently. I'm sure there's probably another name for it (maybe), as the mawashigeri wasn't a traditional kick (and hence ura-mawashigeri wouldn't be the name for it). Or, maybe they just didn't care about the name, which is a quite distinct possibility.

Sure. I'll just pm it to you. I'll flatter myself by saying that if anyone else is interested, they can ask me for it. (It's a rework of an old post, so older members have seen it already)

Most of the hits employed by fighters in the ring (made even more so by the fact they have gloves on) are not of the reverberating "whip" kind, which makes it irrelevant how much mass you have in your head. Technically, the mass isn't irrelevant, but it is made negligably so by this kind of punch. The "power" behind a punch can not necessarily be determined by using only mass and velocity, as the energy transfer into the target plays a huge role in this kind of punch.

Always good to be back.

Hmm, it seems there may be some differing definitions of what we all consider a uramawashigeri. Reading the other posts more closely, what I'm talking about might be a little different from what others may be talking about. Rather than coming from the outside, it comes from the inside. Meaning rather than snapping into the target from the outside, you go in to out. Say you were just standing with legs shoulder-width apart and wanted to do an uramawashigeri with your right foot. You'd have lift your right ankle towards your center (more towards your left side, really). Your knee would then be pointed more outwards (this resulting setup is more or less the opposite of what we call a mawashigeri). It's not quite an exact science, as the angles will change a bit depending where you are aiming, but the right foot will be around the region of the left knee, with around a forty-five degree slant from the right knee to the right foot. It's harder to put into words... Obviously, the power behind this technique is all in the snap, as you can't gain any thrusting power with this technique. You also can not gain too much height, as the mechanics are detrimental towards it.

Because the Japanese don't wear shoes indoors and they practice inside of a dojo. The use of a training hall in karate is a relatively new thing. Also, shoes weren't necessarily that prevalent in many places. This next part is purely speculation on my part, but in places like Okinawa, it got really hot and/or maybe they didn't want to ruin their sandals. They didn't necessarily even wear shoes all the time, either. In addition, many of the foot techniques included toe strikes and other ways of taking advantage of the foot structure, which would be marginalized by the presence of a shoe (less so by sandals, which is what most of them wore).

I think the notion of emphasizing principles far more than techniques is a staple of truly "traditional" combative schools...I've droned on about it extensively in the past.

Sounds like typical Hollywood to me. Choose a grossly exaggerated "villain" of an established religion and make the main character a hero by defying the evil forces of said religion.

Considering there are more CMA weapons than you can shake a stick at (or a spear, or a broadsword...), it kind of boils down to whatever you know how to use best. I hate that kind of answer, since it is so obvious. Therefore, I will say that bladed weapons tend to be inherently "more dangerous" because it takes so little force or skill to hurt with them.

Carbone sai, which I've recently concluded are better-balanced than Shureido sai (at least for me) have a tip at the end of the main shaft. It's not quite a sharp point, but it is a point (you don't need that much force to penetrate with them). On the handle side of it, the tsuka also ends in a point (tsuka gashira, or whatever the heck it is called...I'm too lazy to look it up and I don't remember), which really facilitates the strike in the reverse grip. http://www.weaponsconnection.com/page1.htm Oh dear, it seems I've become a walking, talking Weapons Connection advertisement since I've received my pair of sai. On the downside, they were about three hundred dollars...

I believe the frog style's weakness was the boiling pot of water style. The key was not to heat your water instantly to boiling temperature, as that would cause the frog style practitioner to evade immediately. Rather, you must incrementally "turn on the heat" which will eventually boil the frog practitioner before he realizes it. I've seen them perform at my college before. Gymnastics is fun and all...

Right...I think if you want to suggest a thread be moved somewhere else, do so. Don't follow along replying with the topic as it encourages it to live beyond it's ideal lifespan... (See the arrogance that accompanies my karateforums blackbelt?) At any rate, I hereby formally submit a request for the transferrance of this topic elsewhere. I don't think it has any place in the Strategy section. [/end thread elitism]

The rank of shodan is extremely subjective (in a more or less sense, so are all the others, but ideally there should be a general trend of "getting better" the higher up you go, barring unfortunate cases that seem to be quite prevalent). I've been to very few places where those who recently achieved shodan were impressive (and in some of those places, they were incredibly impressive). There are quite a large number of those that do fail to impress me. The largest of these tend to not be as critically analytical or "learning" in their karate, and really just do what they're told without independent research. In many cases, it's a lot easier to go get your shodan in Japan or karate, because to masters, even ranks up to yondan are still nothing. Recent times has seen more or less of this depending on the master, but the truth remains. I could go on and on about the young nature of ranking and testing in karate, and indeed the misconceptions about what actually is traditional in karate, but I won't...(I had an article submission shot down on the topic, apparently). Edit: Along the same lines as what some people have mentioned, it is simply a fine thing to be under an instructor who is still learning. I've been under some that were obviously not and in those cases, quickly parted ways with them. Edit2: I may have been hasty about the whole article thing. I hear it takes a while for them to be posted.

Rather unsurprisingly, I do Shorin Ryu karate. It does seem odd to have a topic for something inherently set up in people's profile, but I suppose this covers people that don't have it specifically stated, either because they are taking several or they don't have one.

Now, was he talking about "wushu" as it refers to the modern art? Or was he using the word "wushu" according to its traditional usage, which is what everyone (even many Chinese) calls "kung fu" nowadays? Edit: Of course, I see now Drunken Monkey gave a similar reply already on a different topic. Oh well. That's what happens when you aren't here for a while.

Hi. I've found that the "best" targets for these kicks are low. Of course, that's my philosophy regarding every kick. Okinawan styles tend to make this a sort of toe kick and aim for the sensitive soft tissue on the inner sides of the legs. It is very effective in disrupting either the opponent's breathing, balance or both, which I consider one of the essential steps in winning. As mentioned above, it is obviously a close-quarters kick, as full extension of this would be dangerous to you. Other than that, I don't see how it would otherwise be "difficult" to execute. As an interesting sidenote, there was never a "mawashigeri" (as opposed to a uramawashigeri) in traditional karate. It is more of a recent innovation popularized in sport karate. I'm of the opinion it is because it compromises too much of your balance, mobility and speed if you want to execute a mawashigeri of any significance. It's the same reason why kicks of any type are low in traditional karate.

It's pretty simple to avoid hyper-extending the elbow if you punch properly. Along that same line, it's pretty easy to learn how to punch properly as well. I prefer to use the makiwara to help simulate hitting a target with some give to it rather than a huge building up of my knuckles. As mentioned before, there are some things that punching the air can not help you practice. That's why Okinawans used the makiwara quite frequently in the old days, and even now.

A lot of these comments apply more to the differences between Chinese martial arts and the more Japanese styles of karate. Okinawan karate is much more similar to Chinese martial arts, employing all of the things mentioned as traits of Chinese martial arts in the above posts.

Me:"No comment." Random bystander: "Hey, doesn't that still count as a comment though?" Me: "Quiet you." Edit: To make this post somewhat meaningful and less offensive (perhaps), just be forewarned that stating "so-and-so was the best" or "Such-and-such style is the best" (Yes, I'm aware that you will say it isn't a style, it's a philosophy/orientation/perspective...), it will create controversy...