Shorin Ryuu

They are usually held over the weekend, starting either on Thursday or Friday. Just in our organization alone, I can think of at least 6 camps held annually off the top of my head in varying locations in the US. I'm sure if you ask your instructor he'll know of them (the best from what I've heard being Kyoshi Perry's camp near your neck of the woods every August). I can give you info and things on them, if you want (I'll email you later or something). I think one of the strong points of our organizations is the cross-connectivity and networking across the country. Many of our kyoshi and senior instructors will travel to many of the camps throughout the year. I think its a great way to measure yourself against others as a "reality check", to learn from a great diversity of people (since every instructor has their own "style"...as all individuals do), and to have a fun time meeting and training with people.

There are various versions of Hakutsuru videos for sale out there. I've seen versions of Hakutsuru done on a video of about Hohan Soken and his students, and I also bought John Sells' video (which has good bunkai). I've also heard that Chuck Chandler produces a great video for Hakutsuru (which I have no trouble believing).

$20 a month (although its about a $20 roundtrip to drive there and back). It's worth it though.

Hah! Coming from one of the oldest...oh wait, you beat me to it. [/end spam] Anyway, why would the WKF not consider Shorin Ryu a traditional style? I'm not exactly well-educated on tournament politics, but that just seems a little strange, especially as it accepts Goju Ryu.

Yes, Shorin Ryu is considered one of the more traditional forms of karate.

One of the better ways to learn in camps is to always be up front and always ask questions. I've only seen the camp in an organization other than mine once, but the one thing I really like about the camps in my organization is that they have so many talented instructors from around the country and sometimes from Okinawa or other places, that they can have numerous different sessions and topics going on at once (so you can pick and choose which things you want to learn). If you want just specifically to target basics and kata, you can do that, or you can do many other different topics. Another great way to learn is to ask questions in between sessions. Just go up and respectfully ask any of the instructors about something (make it at least half-worthwhile though) and they will usually be happy to explain it and other things to you in depth. The last camp I got to attend was great because we had visiting Okinawans and I got to translate for them at times.

I use a lot of the traditional Okinwan hojo undo (gripping jars, stone locks, weight hammers, etc). Works well for me, as it isolates various gripping specific muscles as well as some good martial arts muscles in general.

No, but I gave up junk food years ago. There's plenty of nice beverages to drink without having to fill your body with that mess, in my opinion.

I figured this would be a good place to ask this question. Have any of you read the book Chronicles of Tao : The Secret Life of a Taoist Master? (Apparently a collection of three books The Wandering Taoist, Seven Bamboo Tablets of the Cloudy Satchel, and Gateway to a Vast World) From what I can gather, it's a historical fiction account of the life of Kwan Sai Hung, but also a great read. Any opinions on it? I think my teacher has mentioned off-hand that he has trained with Kwan Sai Hung before (I do karate, but my instructor is ethnic Chinese, lives in San Francisco and also has done a lot of Chinese arts like Tai Chi). I was planning on asking my instructor when I see him tomorrow. However, he also just got back from a trip to Okinawa. I may just ask him later, as I'm sure he has a lot of other stories to tell from that... Anyway, I was just interested in what other people thought about either Kwan Sai Hung or just the books in general.

In my opinion, the best way to try and figure out the bunkai for a move is to look at the move before and after it. It think it is important not just to have bunkai for each individual move, but for chains and sets of moves as well. I THINK I know which sequence you're talking about in Bassai Dai (Assuming your Bassai Dai is the same as our Passai Sho...something I've seen happen quite often, and given the other things discussed in this thread, makes it quite likely). The way we do it is in the sequence before the "three gedan barai", we bring the right arm in a sort of outside-to-inside soto uke which the open left hand meets at the elbow. From here, the right hand swings down into the gedan barai, followed by a left and a right gedan barai without changing stance. This leads me to believe that the initial block is grabbing the opponent's arm and smashing the elbow, then applying an arm bar to bring the opponent down. This can be linked to the "double punch" manuever and the move afterwards to further inflict hurt on the opponent in the form of a throw or otherwise. Or, it can be seen as the end of the sequence itself. In regards to the original question of the "double punch", I see it as being entirely possible to be an actual double punch. It isn't impossible to do a double strike while preventing yourself from being vulnerable, nor is it exactly all that hard to do. I much prefer striking at opposing sides of the body (laterally and vertically) to attain maximum effect on neurological disruption. This also sets up the subsequent throw that occurs as you turn easier. A trick in doing this is immediately after you strike, grab the opponent (and realistically, you can strike with the fist or the palm to make it easier), grab onto the opponent's flesh/skin/clothes to help out your throw. Something also to take into account for this technique is the leg movement prior to the punch. It also can form an important part of the sequence as well...

I've read Cheng's Thirteen Treatises as well as the two Robert Smith books you mentioned. All were quite enjoyable reads. I've also heard from another source saying in Hong Kong and Taiwan challenges, the Tai Chi masters would perform extremely well against other fighters.

Pretty much all things have a hidden bunkai (not so much hidden, as different ways of doing them and less obvious). The best way to think about it is not to see it as a "block" per se. This applies to any blocking technique, by the way. You can think of it literally as punching the incoming attack (whether you want to punch his fist like Bushi Matsumura was reputed to have done to a challenger and broke it or perhaps the elbow or another target). This would make even more sense if you take into account the crossing of hands that occurs in most blocks. The crossing of the hands is the actual "block" where the retracting hand blocks/parries and grabs the incoming attack and the rising hand attacks the opponent's arm (or any other target made vulnerable by pulling him into you). Or you can think of it as a forearm strike to the face or neck that just so happens to brush the attack out of the way. In this one, the emphasis is more on the forward motion combined with the upward motion. Many Okinwan blocks tend to be higher, indicating its more of a strike that happens to block the arm at the same time. There are other variations. It isn't necessary to go into all of them. However, like I said, the best way to think of what blocks really are, is that they aren't. Blocks, that is. If you look at the word "uke/uki", it means "to receive", not "block"...there's a different word in Japanese that literally means "to block". To be honest, I was unsure whether I was going to write a response or not. (But I like hearing the sound of my own voice...or is that seeing the sight of my own text? And I figured someone else would say it anyway) But these things are something you should really give a lot of thought and time to. I like the free flow of knowledge, but depending on your level, there is also a point where you should not have things spoon-fed to you constantly. No, you should actually want to have things NOT spoon-fed to you. Otherwise you'll just be a mirror, rather than someone who is really learning. I don't mean to discourage questions. I probably ask more questions of my instructors than they care to hear...but something this "simple" should require at least a decent amount of ponderance before asking a question. Of course, if you did think about it a lot and couldn't come up with an answer, that's okay too. I (and others more knowledgeable) will always be here to answer questions. But I think the most important step for a martial artist is the one he or she takes without holding their instructor's hand. [/end something-I-just-wanted-to-rant-about]

Henka has more the connotation of variation, alteration, transition, etc. In this case, the context allows for "interpretations" perhaps, I think he was emphasizing more of the variation aspect of it (correct me if I'm wrong, Beer-monster).

You used the word "brotherhood" first; I only followed your lead on this one...maybe you've been out in the middle-of-nowhere Montana too long?

It's obviously something brand new. I do find it ironic that they criticize things such as Marine self defense training programs (which were recently being revamped, anyway) in one breath, and then say their techniques based on the likes of Fairbairn, Sykes and Applegate, whose oversimplistic and not necessarily biomechanical approach resulted in some of the rather simplistic and not necessarily effective training methods in the armed services for personal combat. I certainly do agree that much of the basic combat training in the armed services do need a lot of work, but they kind of contradict themselves here...They also have other comments and things that seem strange to me. Mostly, they have a bunch of statements that are partly or only somewhat true, and then fill in the rest with their particular "philosophy." I think the site is obviously generated as a marketing ploy. You're going to have to visit them to see if it is worth it. I wouldn't, but that's just my opinion off of seeing the site.

Woops. My mistake. In that case, welcome to the Shorin Ryu family!

No problem. I should've been clearer originally (I was lazy and quoted the whole thing).

If you want quality, choose Shureido. If you want to have more money afterwards, choose Century. The more expensive ones like Shureido are better balanced, will last longer, and aren't pieces of junk. In the long run, you'll probably save more money by choosing Shureido, as they will last. I agree that choosing stainless steel is better, since you don't have to worry about rust. I also bought a pair of custom, handmade stainless steel sai from weaponsconnection.com. I actually like the balance much better than the Shureido sai, in fact. It did cost me about three hundred dollars though. It's a matter of trade-off and investment, I suppose.

To back up Jussi Hakkinen, the traditional way of doing both stances is much higher. To be honest, I fail to see the utility in a very deep kiba dachi or a deep shiko dachi. But to answer the question, one difference between having the feet parallel and the feet out at an angle is that the feet parallel is useful for "locking in place" during grappling, while the feet out at an angle allows for rising and falling movement during grappling (as well as easier transition in stance). Using this reasoning, I feel that having a very deep kiba dachi (or shiko dachi, for that matter) is quite impractical, other than building muscle and endurance in training. In my opinion, the only real usefulness of having deep stances is for grappling purposes. Grappling in the manner of shiko dachi or kiba dachi as linked to above is too "double-weighted," not beneficial from a biomechanical perspective, and leaves you too vulnerable.

Yes, UsagiYojimbo is quite welcome into our brotherhood...provided he knows the secret knock and password. I'm sure you'll enjoy your training, UsagiYojimbo.

I had an ACL reconstruction last year. The best advice I can offer you is to listen to your body, which will tell you what is simply pain and what can actually injure you. Styles like Shotokan will emphasize deeper stances, so I suggest you train in the weight room to target your legs, otherwise you risk putting too much stress on your knee if it is not sufficiently backed up by a good foundation of muscle and strengthened connective tissue.

I actually didn't say that, swdw did...if you disagree with that statement, take it up with him, not me... When I said "this is a pretty important point" I wasn't referring to his reminder to you, nor was I emphasizing the part about schools training to fight other martial artists specifically. I was merely saying that traditional styles (like what you and I take) were always designed to fight on the street and always trained that way.

I agree one hundred percent. Practicing fast motions with weights on your ankles and wrists (especially considering how most people punch) is only asking for joint injury. I suppose it may be a bit easier to prevent the injury in your arms, but with the legs, it is a bit more difficult. Use the search command (probably in the Health and Fitness Board) and you'll find most people agree that the weights on the ankles and wrists are dangerous.

Sounds like the real deal. A real load of...

I think this is a pretty important point. Many of the traditional styles were designed to work against random outbreaks of violence in the traditional Confucian order, not to compete or fight other highly trained martial artists. Certainly martial artists could and did fight other martial artists, but it was more designed literally for street fight situations. Most practitioners on Okinawa, for example, were bodyguards, law enforcement or warrior nobility. I agree with this as well. Another way of looking at it (since there are so many) is that the first motion is a catch while the "block" is the strike as the arm is locked into place. Obviously this will all depend on the situation. But I strongly believe that traditional "blocking" was designed to never allow the opponent a second chance to attack. Right on the money.