Shorin Ryuu

It also helps to learn the language before you go over there...

Um. Ditto. Primarily because he doesn't take himself too seriously in the latter two series of movies.

Edit:I actually started this post before the previous one was posted. However, my position still stands. No ill will to anyone. Well, might as well put in my two cents. First of all, I think your analogy is a bit off, Hydroxinal. It should be "complaining about someone who uses their computer for playing games rather than work." This analogy would capture the essence of what he is saying. Shorinryu Sensei isn't saying that you can't play around and have fun with the nunchaku. If you want to be all flashy and whatnot, that's fine. He's simply saying that when people pass off such flash as legitimate fighting technique, then that's where there is a problem. As he does not seem to be doing so, I do not see where the problem is (since he's not accusing Patrick of passing off those techniques as fighting techniques). Now, back to your analogy. I chose to reword it because there is simply an objective line between "fighting techniques" and "flash techniques". Shorinryu Sensei is talking about actually combat applicability, not stylistic difference. When you talk about combat applicability, you have things that work well, things that work alright, and things that don't work at all. Flashy technique doesn't work at all unless you get lucky, and even then you run the risk of hurting yourself. Once again, he is talking about the legitimacy of combat applicability. You mention that as long as the style is compatible with the tool, then it could be considered legitimate. I agree. Flash is compatible with flash in its own "legitimate" way. However, flash is not compatible with fighting because it simply isn't compatible with the tool, so to speak (akward analogy). All Shorinryu Sensei is saying (and those with experience in training nunchaku for combative purposes) is that flash isn't combatible with fighting and should not be passed off as such. He adds that there is danger in sites like Patrick's because people may take things off of his site and try to pass it off as legitimate technique. That doesn't mean that Patrick is encouraging them to do so, only that the possibility exists. There is a degree of stylistic license in all things. However, when it comes to fighting with a weapon like the nunchaku, there are only so many ways of effective usage that are permissible. Certainly there are differences among practical fighting methods of using nunchaku. But there is a distinct and irrefutable line between flash and practicality. And Patrick isn't on the side of practicality for fighting purposes. That doesn't mean he's bad, its just simply stating a fact. I've no problem with him doing that. But don't insult the intelligence of someone who has had far more experience in practical fighting experience than many of you have years on this good earth (myself included). He drew a very clear distinction and it doesn't speak well of you to deliberately misinterpret it (or if you honestly misinterpreted it, then I'll simply be clearing it up for you). Have a nice day.

sorry, but can anyone answer me this? Anything that takes ten years to master isn't a complete style. (Hint: You can't master Tai Chi in ten years)

Easy there, tiger. Like you said, most of your experience has been from a McDojo, so you'll probably have to relearn or learn for the first time a lot of basic principles and things. You've only been in Goju Ryu for a week, so don't expect it all to come raining down on you; you have to wait a bit. Obviously everything will depend on the dojo in terms of the pace in teaching, but there really is no sense getting too firehosed with information, nor is there any sense in trying to take on too much at once. That will just end up with you having overall bad technique. Everything you learn is "self-defense" related. Just because they don't stand there and say "Okay class, now we're going to do self-defense drills," doesn't mean that you're not learning self-defense. If all you've learned is some punching, blocking, stances, foot work and your first Goju Ryu kata, then I'd say you have plenty on your plate for now. I know. No one wants to simply be told to be patient. I know I enjoy learning new things all the time. However, you have to keep in mind that being a good fighter means you're good at the basics.

Geez. Haven't you ever heard of the Ancient Warrior's Code: Thou Shalt Not Strike the Jewels of Thy Opponent in Combat? Most, most dishonorable.

I didn't like the idea of being dependent on any substances, so I never started drinking coffee. I've tried it several times and found it not to my liking, anyway. As I'm very particular about what I eat and drink in terms of a healthy diet, I don't forsee myself ever starting to drink it.

I have heard of it and know some about it, making me slightly more useful than Taku-Shimazu but nowhere near as useful as Venrix. Normally, that would be followed by a smilie, but I find them over-used and sometimes pretty annoying. Dang. They really are everywhere...

My system uses basic terminology for the basic techniques, but doesn't get held up over cataloguing the name of every technique, as we focus more upon principles than specific technique.

My system uses the 10 kyu/10 dan ranking structure. As stated in other threads (this topic really does seem to come up a lot), my current instructor actually just uses white belt (10th kyu, I suppose) and brown belt (corresponds to somewhere around the 3rd~1st kyu level I guess) before shodan (he doesn't test students either, just gives them the belt if he thinks they are ready). Its a nice way to weed out those in it just for belts and it keeps cost down for those sticking with the training (although he only charges $20 a month anyway). My first Shorinkan instructor used the 10 kyu system, but he didn't charge us for any of our color belts, so I still lucked out.

My classes are 2 1/2 hours long, which allows for flexibility. The atmosphere is extremely relaxed and nothing is really planned ahead of time. In the beginning, we usually have self-stretching that will invariably involve chatting and exchanging of stories or martial arts discussion. There are perhaps never more than five or six of us on most days and we usually split up into groups or individual training for some of the time following. Our instructor will take one or several or all of us and go over kata, principles, weapons, or drills (or any thing else he has in mind, or he simply asks us what we want to do). Other times, me and other students will do some kata (with or without Sensei watching) and either discuss things that come to mind, practice bunkai or give any other observations occur as we do it. We also may do drills or other training that we feel like we want to emphasize at the moment. I find this format really helps students to think on their own while still providing an instructor's oversight as he participates and trains with us as well. The small group format really facilitates discussion and the lack of a rigid discipline structure allows for free exchange of ideas. As such, self-discipline is something that is needed (my instructor doesn't train people under 15 years of age at the moment). It also really helps Sensei to tailor the training to each individual, which is how it was traditionaly taught. At the very end of practice, Sensei will try to have at least 20-30 minutes or so of kata practice with all of us together. It isn't uncommon for us to go out to eat afterwards or stick around and chat for a while either. I much prefer this style of dojo, not just because it is truly more traditional in its orientation, but because I feel it is far more effective, not to mention more friendly and relaxed.

I listen to a lot of music. My favorite composer/writer would have to be Kanno Youko (revealing my geekiness to those who know who she is).

I took Soo Bahk Do for a year once and it was okay. I liked the fact that the place I trained was run by a Korean who had trained nearly all his life and had trained both Korean and American special forces in unarmed combat before and after moving to the States. His emphasis was primarily on self-defense as we did not do any tournaments or anything like that. And because of a long lecture he gave us one class on health and willpower, I also owe much to him in making my decision that has arguably changed much of my life: giving up junk food completely. I actually moved (went off to college) so I stopped training there and switched to an Okinawan style (Shorin Ryu) which I feel is more practical. But to be honest, the Soo Bahk Do school was far better than many places (Korean or otherwise) that I have encountered. All the same, I don't regret my decision to change. I wanted to meet my old instructor again, but I never got around to it. I heard recently that he tragically passed away in a car accident, which was a big shame and a loss. As I recall, we did use the Pinan (Pyung Ahn) and Naihanchi (Naihanji) forms at that Soo Bahk Do school. I believe they used other Okinawan forms (or derivatives of the Japanese derivatives of them) as well, but to be honest, I do not remember if they did or not.

"This is a private listing. Your identity will not be disclosed to anyone except the seller. " <===I got a kick out of that part. I've learned not to be too disgusted by all the quick-and-easy scams out there or by places that I've seen that teach crappy martial arts. If people want to buy those and delude themselves, that's fine by me. If people want to run crappy dojo and teach crappy martial arts, then there's nothing I can do. They wouldn't be doing these things unless people were there to buy into them. Yes, I suppose it does offend the "warrior" in me and makes me a bit indignant, but I'm not going to get too put off by it. I just smile and content myself with the knowledge that I train in a genuine art and try to spread the knowledge of it to those around me. What's more, it really does highlight the relatively arbitrary nature of a ranking system, anyway, even in "traditional" martial arts.

Uwaaa~! Take him up on it if at all possible! I can't think of anything else you could do right now to set yourself up for future connections and success in training... (and tell me all about it, will ya?)

Not exactly. Kata uses this character: 形.　The "form" in "forms" really does lend itself more to the meaning of "form" or "shape" rather than "formal". Kata can also mean shoulder, but it uses and entirely different character, so you can't really say that it could also mean shoulder. For example, "Doll" in Japanese is "ningyou" or 人形. The first character means "person" and the second character is "shape", using the same character as "kata". This leads me to believe "forms" are literally talking about the form or shape (position, biomechanics) the body takes when doing them. I also feel that students shouldn't just be taught all the bunkai right away. It's okay for them to be taught some of the more basic bunkai as they learn it. Of course, the more advanced they become, they can be taught more advanced bunkai from the very beginning when they learn new kata (tailoring it to the individual of course). But I think that simply dumping all the knowledge on someone about a kata gives them too much of a crutch that will hamper their development later on. At the very least, students should try and find out bunkai of their own and test it with other students. If they still have trouble, they can ask instructors (I know I have) who will more than likely clarify things if needed. But I think the learning process is just as important as what is learned. If you can't reason out bunkai for yourself, then you have a problem with the way you think and reason about your karate (kata). Just because you aren't necessarily taught the applications doesn't mean you can't get anything out of it. Of course, if you weren't taught to appreciate the applications of kata in general, then there probably is a problem. But the actual teaching of individual bunkai for every kata, while helpful, is not always necessary in every case. In those oft-quoted old days, teachers didn't necessarily break down the applications of every movement. They might do so for their more dedicated students, but really all this emphasis on bunkai being blatanly stated feels to me to be more of a recent innovation. Not that it is a bad thing, and not that it wasn't done in limited terms back then. But unless you force someone to learn by holding back some knowledge, they'll never learn; they will only copy.

No-nonsense style? Is there any style out there that actually advertises itself as a "nonsense style"?

Precisely. I've often brought up this point many times in the past. If a master does a kihon kata, is it really "basic"? While I do "simpler" kata like the Pinan kata less than I do more advanced kata, I still do them each around at least 6 times a week. I do the kihon and fukyuugata far less often. But the basic point still remains. (I won't belabor it, as it's been agreed upon, pretty much)

Humorously enough, the characters for "Hara Kiri" and "Seppuku" are exactly the same. In "Hara Kiri", the character for "stomach" is in front of the character for "cut", while in "seppuku", the character for "cut" is in front of "stomach". I'd really have to see the original to tell whether or not it was a translator error or not...I do have the same version of the book you have, by the way... When they say "vulgar" and "honorable", it could be referring to "informal" and "formal" with regards to levels of polite speech. These rules aren't necessarily written in stone, or maybe he just inadvertently wrote "harakiri" instead (He was originally Okinawan, not Japanese). I don't think it's too big of a deal, really. This does bring up a point about Nagamine. His Shorin Ryu was much more heavily influenced by the Japanese, both in techniques and other things, such as more formalities and rigid discipline, zen emphasis, etc.

Oh, I wasn't aware there was any tension between Lindsey and Chandler. I was actually referring to the tapes of Chandler himself doing Hakutsuru though. I don't know any of those other details, so I'm not going to say he's a convict... Maybe I'll ask my instructor, as he seems to know an amazing amount of people in the traditional martial arts (like he just ran into/met for the first time Morio Higaonna on a plane to Okinawa the other day and got invited to see his dojo and watch a class). The other day he was throwing around the idea to visit Yabiku, Chuck Chandler's instructor, but he was concerned about Yabiku's training methods (striking vital areas very strongly, which could be bad for long-term health).

Actually, I'm more familiar with the term "Polyester/Cotton Blend Palm". But yes, that is one method of energy transfer using the palm (of which I am quite fond, actually).

You're going to be around that long? I figure I'll stick with martial arts for a good, say, rest-of-my-life or so. I can see myself eventually teaching on the side (probably for free) while my military career takes me here and there. I can also foresee opening up my own dojo after I settle down, but that's many years down the line, and definitely not as a sole source of income (apart from my IRA and retirement pay...). Me and Skeptic2004 always joke that I'll open up a dojo, go broke, he'd buy it (being the economics major), and I'd end up working there...

Ah yes, Spring Break. I remember those days... [Don't let me fool you, I'm actually in grad school right now, but we don't get a Spring Break]

The only thing I've ever hunted is fish...um, with a pole, a line, hook and bait...? *listens to the crickets chirping in the background* Okay, so I've never gone hunting...I don't have anything against it, but I've just never done it.

Someone always says that sooner or later. Yes, we know, the brain is the most formidable weapon...sheesh... Anyway, I really like all the weapons I use, but the sai and the bo are my favorite.