Shorin Ryuu

At age 18? Normally I'd be skeptical, but since you came from Kyoshi Perry's dojo, I'm very impressed instead. For all those unfamiliar with the standards there, they are extremely high so a sandan is certainly well-deserved from that source.

Well, I'll arive this Sunday (June 19th), train Monday - Thursday and leave that Friday. I'll be spending an awful lot of my days there, so the chances of us meeting will be pretty high, I'd imagine.

I train at Sam Ahtye's dojo at the SomArts Center.

Yeah, I found it on ebay for relatively cheap so I went ahead and got it.

Excellent link. Thanks. Edit: I saw one of the belt requirements (forget which one) it mentioned "muscle gouges". Is that referring to techniques similar to those in Chin Na (and others)?

Has anyone heard of or watched the DVD entitled "The Karate of Choki Motobu" made by Tsunami Productions? Apparently it features Motobu Chosei, son of the famed Motobu Choki. I was wondering if any of you thought it was worth getting. These martial arts dvds and videos always seem to be a little expensive, so I wasn't too keen on getting burned. Looks like something good though.

I personally find books to be generally less helpful in learning kata simply because kata isn't just about the end position but everything that happens in between can be even more important in many cases. Consequently, I find videos more of a helpful aid. Of course, I've relied mainly on instruction to learn my kata (I've learned kata from videos, which was helpful in getting the gross pattern down but only in cases where I knew I would have an instructor to weed out whatever silly bad habits it gave me), but I think using videos to see how others do kata is a useful tool to enhance rather than learn kata. As such, simply copying what others do isn't the main thrust of such an exercise; it is reasoning or experimenting to find out why they do it one way that allows you to gain the most from it.

Sure. "The gi is a relatively new innovation in karate." But, I suppose that isn't sufficient... So...what date do you cite as the birth of "traditional karate"? And what do you mean by "traditional"? The term itself despite being thrown around even by everyone including myself has very little actual historical meaning. The use of the gi in karate is essentially what Funakoshi borrowed from judo in the early 1900s, only in a lighter form. Kano Jigoro himself didn't create the standard judogi we see nowadays until 1907. Funakoshi's decision was partly based on his efforts to successfully market karate as a "budo" similar to judo and kendo and as such he adopted some of the formalities required to be accepted by the Butokukai. Another reason was it simply got rid of any class distinctions that may have been evident by what kind of clothes you wore when you trained with others. In those days, class distinction, though long abolished was still a very real part of people's attitudes and perceptions. For example, Motobu Choki always went out of his way to bully and badger Funakoshi (who he considered inferior to him in class and skill) partly because he was offended someone of his class (and skill) was chosen to represent karate's mainstream introduction to Japan. At any rate, the sharing of martial principles and techniques on Okinawa between masters and other students was common even before what now is known as "karate" was fully introduced to the public. Any sort of particular tradition regarding uniformity of dress, particular training locations or customs and courtesies were more the personal preferences of individual teachers if they existed at all. Before Funakoshi's decision and even after, many karate practitioners wore whatever...be it shorts, pants or work clothes. Yes, I would imagine sometimes before the formal karate gi was introduced some of them maybe wore something vaguely resembling the gi you see nowadays, but it wasn't very common. In some cases, teachers preferred students to not wear tops just so they can see the structure of the student's body easier. Yes, the general pattern of what a gi is has been around for a long time. I never claimed it wasn't. However, saying its use in karate is a traditional aspect (there really isn't much that can be called traditional other than kata) is a bit mistaken. I'm saying they didn't care at all what you wore while you trained until recently. There was never any sort of mystique, reverence, tradition or any other sentiment attached to what they wore other than perhaps the lingering stench if it wasn't washed in recent times. In fact, much attention must always be made not only to the similarities to and influences from Japan that Okinawan martial arts and culture has in general, but also its differences. But who knows. Maybe in twenty or thirty years everyone in MMA will soon regard their shorts and t-shirts as a hallowed part of their tradition. They may even come up with the story that everyone started with a white t-shirt but over time they turned black with sweat, blood and dirt, signifying that they truly became a master. At such a time, I can only hope someone remains historically objective enough to point out how things actually were. Sadly, it isn't the majority of cases when it comes to the same things regarding karate and "traditional karate". My ridiculous example is only to throw things into relief and show you how far things have gone in regards to what people think traditional karate actually is. Edit: Eiichi, I noticed in your introduction post to KF you mentioned you used to live in San Francisco but have since moved to San Jose. I live in Monterey (until the end of September at least) but train in San Francisco. If you ever wanted to swing down and have some sort of knowledge exchange (perhaps one-sided learning on my part) or wouldn't mind if I swung up by you, go ahead and pm me and maybe we could figure something out. I'm always up to learning new things.

Sounds good, Scott. Could you still go into a little more of the specifics, such as testing requirements and instruction rather than just the brochure version?

Well, I for one think if someone is of sufficient maturity and trustworthy, the "advanced" interpretations or at least awareness thereof should still be taught relatively early. Obviously you don't want to completely overwhelm a beginner, but you may as well incorporate advanced principles into their training early on. I think adults or those mentally sharp and disciplined enough will be able to do this much sooner in their training than kids, even if they are not in the "higher ranking" category. This is part of another debate, so I digress... But you are all right about the pronunciation bit. Of course, if I wanted to be even more technically accurate I would've said "joudan" instead of "jodan", but that would've ended up confusing more people. Yes, the adding of the "u" is just an occasional sticking point of mine. (It also can be the source of puns, as my screenname suggests) As far as "uke" meaning "receive", I've been saying that for years.

Unsuprisingly, I agree with Skeptic2004. Like belts, the wearing of gi isn't really a traditional thing in karate. On Okinawa, it was too darn hot (still is, I hear...) to wear gi all the time. Most people trained in something equivalent to a loincloth. This practice was changed in some places in the early 1900s (after learning it was disrespectful to the emperor not to have a shirt on...). Other places wore merely the pants and put the top on for formal occassions or picture time. Some places didn't even put the emphasis on wearing gi tops until more women were allowed in the dojo. Long story short, even the notion of "traditional gi" is somewhat laughable. The only part that makes it traditional was the fact they opted for simplicity over flashiness. What gave it a somewhat traditional nature was the importation of its usage in Japanese martial arts and into karate. And even then, some of that was relatively new in terms of standardization and whatnot. In my dojo, we wear the gi as a matter of custom yet we don't put any more stock into it than is warranted. On some hot days we have worn only the pants (obviously no belt...proof that you don't even need the obi to hold up your pants). No loss of spiritual development, awareness or knowledge absorption was noted, although scientific methods have yet to be used. Maybe I should conduct an experiment and write an article for BlackBelt Magazine.

Chuudan means "center" or "halfway" and in this case means "middle area". Jodan refers to an "upraised area" or in this case, "upper area". I don't know what tudan means. One thing you may find helpful is to have the students repeat the command after you say it in Japanese and then say its English meaning. A bit repetitive but it sticks in the mind easy that way. More palatable to kids classes, but they are the ones who probably need it more.

Well, the Marine Corps Martial Arts...oh...yeah, looks like Scott can give you a better idea of it than I can...

KenjutsU is the art of learning how to fight with a drawn Japanese sword (wooden or otherwise or both). Kendo is the art of learning how to fight with a Japanese bamboo practice sword (shinai) and is more sport-oriented in general. Some sword principles will carry over from kendo into kenjutsu, other things will not. Iaido/Iaijutsu (depending on the emphasis in some ways) is the art of drawing the sword as a strike in and of itself. Once the sword is drawn, it will have the same principles as kenjutsu. It just tends to put a lot of emphasis on the actual drawing for speed purposes (practicality back then).

Your brain. Oh no, not you too, Shorinryu Sensei! Nothing like the ever-expected trite response to "what is the best weapon for [blank] threads." I'd go with a knife. In a stunning display of do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do, I actually don't carry anything around with me. Except my clothes. They came in handy. I am thinking about getting an assisted opening knife though. I just have to figure out which one suits me best.

Gosenchi? Is that some cup manufacturer? There really is no way to strengthen that area... On a more esoteric note, I've heard some Chinese styles do not believe it is possible to send chi to the groin. Go senchi could also mean "five centimeters", but...

Simpy put, it is because belts were never a traditional part of karate. When belts really started to catch on in Okinawa (50s and 60s), most places just did white and black, or white, brown, black. So when the numbers of belts expanded, it was more or less an individual decision how it would go. There were several larger organizations encompassing many different styles in the early days of modern karate, but most of these tended towards fragmentation as time progressed.

Shhhh. You might distract from the likely truth which is that the Korean styles doing this simply wanted to distinguish themselves from their mainly Japanese origins.

Ask Skeptic2004 about Pat Nakata's dojo. He trains there and it is quite excellent from what he tells me all the time. Nakata had an opportunity to train extensively with Chibana Chosin, arguably the last of the Okinawan karate "old master" generation.

If it affects your fighting ability without the belt, then there is a problem. If not, then you can believe anything you want.

But I think that's the point where it is too far. You shouldn't mentally associate your belt with your spirit and accumulated knowledge.

I have to do more research. I've heard some instructors in Shorinkan talk about having a sort of "aristocratic" or "noble" posture at times which seems to be what you are describing. It would make sense, since they are both methods descended from Chibana. It also rang similar to some things I heard during my brief iaido stint as well. Will let you know in the weeks to come...

Hmm...were you looking for "calligraphy" or just the characters themselves? In such case, what I sent you should be sufficient...I was thinking you were looking more for a "cursive" version of it. In that case, I'm still looking. (I've no confidence in my cursive skills)

Kenpo is basically a general Japanese term for empty-hand fighting, much in the way that kung fu is now erroneously used to mean Chinese martial arts (as pointed out earlier). There is a tendency for kenpo to refer to Chinese empty hand systems, however. If you look at the term karate, the "kara" means empty and the "te" means hand. However, this term was only officially adopted in 1936. Before the character for "kara" actually meant "China" so karate meant Chinese hand. On Okinawa (where karate came from, not Japan), the "kara" was more commonly pronouced as "tou", so you had people usually referring to it as toudi (ti being the Okinawan way to say "te", changed to a "di" because of compound word rules) or simply ti. Hard and linear karate is more of a Japanese version of it. Even then, some of the Japanese styles of karate (and certainly other types of non-karate Japanese martial arts) employ circular concepts to varying degrees. Okinawan karate has always been much more "Chinese" and employed both hard and soft techniques, linear and circular. When people say karate is basically kung fu (sic), they are referring to the fact that karate is a mixture of indigenous Okinawan arts (influenced gradually by Chinese arts) and other more prominent Chinese martial arts influences. In some cases, ti (which usually referred to more "purely" Okinawan arts) was actually softer and circular than some toudi (which usually referred to more Chinese-Okinawan mixes). Plus, there is always the fact that there are hard Chinese martial arts, soft Chinese martial arts, hard and soft Chinese martial arts and internal and external Chinese martial arts. Using the term "kung fu" to describe them all is a bit of a mistake, anyway. All too often I feel it is more of a marketing tool to claim that by combining hard karate and soft kung fu a better art is formed. Regardless of the virtue of the art in question, it is a bit of a misconception to make such kind of claims generalizing and mislabelling the characteristics of both streams of martial arts (which sort of flow together in many places). My bottom line is this: I pipe up every once in a while when someone characterizes karate as hard and linear while Chinese martial arts are soft and circular. Oftentimes the distinction between the two are blurred. Certainly some karate styles tend to be more hard and linear than others, but if you look at traditional Okinawan karate, you may be surprised at what you find. The softness and circular nature of Okinawan karate isn't an exception to what karate is, it's more of a characteristic.

Interesting article. If you want to go into more the historical and cultural basis, I would recommend you explore the Japanese versions of what are Confucian concepts: uchi, yoso, and giri. Uchi refers to the "inside group" whereas yoso is the "outside group". In all circles of relationships in Japan, there is the inside and outside group. It doesn't matter if you are talking about a company, a ramen shop or a calligraphy club. You are either a member of the ramen shop (uchi) or not (yoso). I like to refer to it as the subway phenomenon. The Japanese are normally polite, yet once they get on a subway, all bets are off. A middle-aged man may sit down while an older lady is standing...he has no obligation to the lady so there's no reason for him to give up his seat. On the other hand, if a senior member of his company happened to be there, there's no doubt as to who would be standing and who would be sitting... Within the uchi, there is giri or duty which flows both ways. The subordinates have their duty to act within the rules of the uchi lest they risk social abandonment and entry into the world of yoso. The longer they stay in a group the more senior and important they become (a phenomenon you see in all Japanese groups). All they need to do is abide by the rules (conformity). On the other hand, the leader has the duty to take care of an nurture the subordinates. In this case, we are talking specifically about the sensei-deshi relationship between teacher and student. I think you did a good job of relating the duties the sensei has to the student in a social context. Interestingly enough, the Japanese use the term "sensei" to refer to many things, doctors, teachers, or just people they respect. In the Japanese context, this duty towards subordinates is therefore ingrained in them as they stay within a system. There is a constant analogy of "the nail which sticks out will get hammered" in terms of conformity and it plays no small part in this. Without getting too deeply into the intracacies of Japanese politics, many times the nail which only sticks out slightly won't get hammered, but will be sort of molded to become a hammer itself (a way of identifying those who have some individuality and creativity but don't fall too far from the tree) and thus a future leader. In other words, a team player that has the potential to guide or lead a team later on. Hope some of this helped. I