Miick 11

Patience ! Definitely ! When I taught students kata ; " I want to see the first 2 moves done 5 times, no mistake . When thats done , add a move - and do them 5 times , not mistake . Even a mistake on the last one , nope - I want to see it 5 times no mistake then add another move .... and so on. They learn very quick . most of the time . But one has to be very patient when teaching this way . Also supply hints , and things for a 'memory jog' at places they might get stuck and summarize the pattern - eg, 3 moves this way, turn, 3 moves that way , turn, 5 up the middle etc . Coincidentally , at training this morning, one of the guys that had real trouble learning kata a while back and I taught him with this method , and he has been absent for months - but he still knows it .

I suggest learning how to teach as well as learning karate . My instructor knows a HEAP of stuff and things I had not encountered previously . He knows a LOT about his particular style , but not about teaching . I think this comes from the idea of large classes . Traditional Okinawan style was 1 on 1 or in small groups . In that scenario one should teach the student according to what TYPE OF learner they are . I found some students could just not learn from him . 2 - 3 months later still did not know our 'first' kata . I would do sessions at my place, they would know the kata after 1 session . The main issue seemed to be , people where getting 'overloaded' - TMI all at once . Of course, it is also the opposite of that which also causes people to drop out as well - doling out tidbits of info over long time ( and fee ) period , and repetition . Of course repetition is good for training in some ways . but a student needs to have aspiration, some level of excitement , or at least not be bored .

I agree with the above and lament it . Facebook and the like suck , I have nothing to do with them . I have even missed out on some indigenous activities as they started having them without telling me about them . When I asked they said ' Oh no, its on facebook now ." What , I have to be on facebook to take part in cultural events with a 60,000 year old root now ? . I have to say I am disappointed with the lack of traffic and response here - so far .

Thanks guys . It all started with wrestling at the local police boys club . Actually , it all started with Mario ; a new guy at school. he was Malaysian and back then in those days , at that type of place, he was shockingly racially vilified , but that was sorta the norm back then . But I found him interesting so sat next to him at school and we made friends . One day we where mucking around and 'wrestling' and he was awesome , then he goes , "Lets knife fight "and we picked up sticks . He was totally all over me . He explained how he was from a rough area and some older boy relatives, showed him. So he started showing me stuff . Then a guy we knew invited us to wrestling at PBC. The instructor was impressed as we had been making up some moves mucking around together . Then a karate instructor started at the club so we did that . But he was a fake ( teaching 'Indian Karate ' as a 'black belt ' - turns out he was a green belt in Ju-jitsu ) so we left. Then the Shotokan guys started using our school gym . Its funny how things play out .. and we get to where we are .

Yes. In the S.R that I do , those 'blocks' stikes can be identified by the position of the fist ; 'gedan bari ' (which does not actually translate to 'block' anyway ) is done with the knuckles out (to strike the side ridge of the knee cap, or shin ) . Same with other 'uke' - which does not mean 'block' either . You might see this in a kata ( it was the way I was taught to do Shotokan kata as a teen , so a long time ago , this is the old way it was instructed ) ; when about to do a block, the other hand / arm goes out first and then is drawn back as the blocking arm comes out . That arm /hand is actually the blocking or 'seizing' hand (actually a ' palm deflection as you move your body off line or away from the strike , or 'duck / weave ' ) Same with the 'upper block' ; we used to have to fling the other hand up with fingers straight and extended and pull that back as the 'blocking' arm came out . To 'sight the path of the block ' we were told All very strange considering 'hikite' was explained in Funakoshi's first book . Then you have the line of 'oi-tsuki' s coming back , all with hikite * . Another main difference is at the end ; Shotokan and others changed to 2 'knife hand strikes' either side, while it was a trap and throw against a kick . And of course , it used to be Pinan NIDAN . * At training the other week ( we have traditional small number 'sessions' outdoors - nothing like a modern big school with many students and dojo, so the dynamic is VERY different , not as rigid and more experimental ) , I did this ; Q ; ' Why do you keep pulling that hand back when you punch ? A ; Its a 'karate' punch . I stand to their left front and hold my left hand out " Punch " . he does right oi-tsuki with hikite, I smack him across the back of the head with my right hand . " Now show me seisan . " he does the first few punches where there is no hikite, the other hand /arm stays up 'in guard' . Me ; " Stop there . Now , punch my hand again like you are doing seisan ." he punches, I go to slap his head and he flicks it out the way with his left arm .

Thanks for that . I have seen that Nishihira vid before but not the Yabiku one . They are very similar. But some of what I was taught is different to both . Hence my searching for sources . Not that it matters too much . Part of the teaching is to adapt what you learn for yourself (eventually ) . Same with us about 'grappling' . Do you do Hakatsuru kata ? The one we practice, I have not seen before , exactly. I saw one on a vid from USA that is it , with differences but it was done very strangely . I have seen one version on vid that Chuck Chandler did , I dont recognise it all . There are at least 3 versions I have heard of ( the one I saw Chuck do, I think was called ' Hakatsuru Mei ; ? ) but the one taught to me is 'Hakatsuru' ... no one seems to know which one or which number it is ?

In case people do not realise what made Hohan Soken's karate different ; He was old school Okinawan traditional karate. After the class disruption in Okinawa, it was hard to get an income so he moved to Argentina and worked and taught there . he missed the whole dynamic that happened at home ; WWII, the after effects and the great changes that happened to karate for various reasons ( turning it into a ;practice; that some didnt understand , adapting it for school physical education and fitness exercise , teaching it to 'the enemy', the influence and change US serviceman brought to it / did to it , turning it into a competition sport , etc ) When he returned, with the old version, he hardly recognized what people where doing . Being isolated from change , he was somewhat of a 'time capsule' .

Excellent ! I'd love to pick your brains ! I have heard about Yabiku . I have been on a search for what Mr Nishihira taught ... its different . I never got to train with him as he got sick when we where organizing a trip there and sadly died not long after . We have private films of him that I have studied . My instructor trained with him. I have traveled around the country here trying to find anyone else that trained with him and picked their brains . Even Ted Lange ( sadly very recently passed on ) had a different style to him. My instructor knows some of it, but keeps reverting to this other stuff as he was Teds student for years . Its a constant 'thing' between us . he doesnt seem to recognize the discrepancies . Its taken some years and personal frustration on my part , but he is eventually agreeing with me . Mr N would pick it up in observation and watch people and comment " Ted's style , very good ." Indicating that his style was different . Mr N also said he learned it all from Hohan Soken and he was " Only up to Mr Soken's knee " . But Ted trained with Soken . ? The issue seems to be, I have heard, ' Base style ' . That is, what was taught on American military bases ( Ted was US ex-serviceman ) ' Ted did base style ' . Its different , less traditional and more modern and ' Japanesey ' . Also take into account the comment Dilman attributes to Hohan Soken " You just bomb everyone .... You dont repect Okinawan people ... even to this day ." Many HAD to teach , to feed family , If they had any left. I suppose not everything was taught , to put it mildly The tradition was more private, small groups , friends and family ; Mr N never had a dojo, advertised , wore a gi ( most film of him training is in slacks and singlet - pictures in gi are usually 'official 'ones or group photos with westerners all dressed up in uniform). He didnt wear a belt at training . Once someone asked what belt he had and he checked his pants and said "brown leather today ' . At his funeral , his neighbors where amazed about all the people there from OS , they didnt even know he was a karate master . Most if what he taught was based on 'Okinawan crane ' . Anyway, over time I have realized there is a great difference between Mr N style and what has passed on as 'Shorin-ryu' . I am keen to know if 'old style ' has passed on to your tradition ? Or what makes you think it is a good style . basically , it is much more 'Okinawan' than the other 'Okinawan' karates that seem to have adopted Japanese / western influence ( mostly about making a business about it all ) . - there are certain distinctions which separate the two .

I did both for years . I think they blend well, IF you understand certain things . Sometimes its difficult in Aikido as its more 'formal' and 'ritualistic' and one has to often 'resist an opportunity . The best Aikido seminars I have gone to where given by those that 'cross trained ' , tested and adapted . Its not as difficult with my type of karate (old style Okinawan ) as it has a huge range of take downs , locks and throws so they can be used in karate training . Many are very similar to the techniques in aikido . Some of the classic moves are echoed in traditional Okinawan dance and are exactly like thse in Aikido . from 5:00 onwards

\Three at once ! Well , only if they have weapons and are doing aikido ( 'randori in joke' ) . I guess my answer would be ; more confidant than I would be without the training I have had . Once I had a mob of knuckle heads charging me (and others ) . It was a forest anti-illegal logging protest and said 'knuckleheads' where redneck drunks ( not loggers , they where on our other side, waiting for an opportunity) One guy singled me out k . It doesnt really count as the attack was stupid and clumsy and easily dealt with . Then the police tried to stop it and they attacked the police ! I saw one guy surrounded by about 4 and he was copping it from all directions, I thought ' That's not fair ! ' and stepped in to help him . Then it turned into a general melee . On that level I thought I did fairly well .... f wading through the confusion, doing a few throws on those that grabbed me .... fairly gentle stuff, I am not into 'damaging' people . Then I realised the guy I was helping ( we where back to back by then ' boxing' it out with them ) was actually a police rescue officer in white overalls . They watched me for a bit , picked up people off the ground and arrested them and then grabbed me, took me to the sidelines and said 'Ok, thats enough for you .' The others got carted off and arrested for assaulting police . Result - successful action - large areas of that locality are now preserved as world heritage 'Gondwana Rainforest ' . I think the most valuable skill there WAS some randori practice ... keep moving, have 'spherical awareness ' , ' dont be drunk ' , and a few arm, joint and 'weak point' manipulations . To use other stuff I do 'karate' ..... far too violent , especially with police watching . ( legal self defense is also something I teach )

means hello . I just joined . I started with Shotokan when a club ( 3 guys ) started using my high school gym . Not long after Australia received its first resident JKA BB instructor Frank Nowak . I traine with him for a few years . . . . old days , old school . Next was Sikiran karate .... man those guys can KICK ! A bit of Silat in Perth. back to Sydney for Akikai Aikido , again, old school - great stuff ! Moved to the central area of Oz east coast ; no teachers . Started teaching a bit of SD and aikido , including at local school . Discovered my small rural town had a 3rd dan teacher ( with a small number of students ) from ' Matsamura Seito Shorin Ryu ' an 'old traditional style ' ...been with him about 12 years . During that time an aikido teacher appeared so I was doing that at the same time for a few years ..... having t have a hip replacement (mid 60s now ) I had to drop aikido no more flying through the air across the gym and rolling anymore ..... oh well ) . Oh yeah , I also do Kobudo , which came down from Hohan Soken via Ted Lange in Oz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohan_S%C5%8Dken 5 bo kata , numerous short jo kata , 1 'jo 20 ' kata (that I developed for our club ) , 2 eku kata, 3 'Soken Gama' , 3 ' Soken Sai' kata , numerous short bokken kata . We practice mainly 1 - 5 Pinan , 1 - 3 Niharchin, Sanchin, 1 - 2 Passai , Rohai ( heron ) , Chinto, Gojushiho, Kusanku, Hakatsuru ( crane .... the form the whole style is based on ). They are mostly old forms that dont exist today , so many are hardly recognizable techniques eg ; toe kick UP to hit the hat rim, ( traditional straw hat with under chin tie ) jerking the head back to expose the throat for a toe kick IN to the throat , grabbing and pulling out the top knot hair comb and striking back into the throat with it, etc .

Yes I have one to share but not sure how as I am low tech (dont even own a' smart phone ' and there is no film of it . I call it jo 20 and I developed it for my club . It is mostly done against the bokken , or other similar weapon ( another jo or shafted weapon ) . The first half are single 'finish it ' moves . The second section is aback and forth dynamic between the two , as in a choreographed fight . Some of it is similar to Aiki kai 'jo 20 ' Like movie - fu most people think its a real fight and when watching go ' Oooo ... ahhhh ! ' I could explain it via text but ...... ? PS . here is an interesting experiment ; take your jo or bo and add a rubber * spear point to one end . Now, when performing your kata observe what moves then get done with that end of the jo * of course it doesnt have to be rubber , you could just do your jo kata with a spear, but I found when explaining and showing these 'new bunkai' , and not wanting to injure people I would 'miss' .... according to them . The rubber point sorted out that . PPS SOFT rubber .... I made a corded surugin with a hard rubber tip ... the guys where dancing around going " Owww ! OOooo ! Ouch ! That ******* thing still hurts ! " I guess you will have to visit down under .

.... Oh look ! I am a white belt again

In regard to the topic question ; In different ways , it depends on what is 'offered ' to you . But I have distilled the responses to common principles ; 1. Evade and 'sting' . 2. Take control, lock up / throw / take down, etc 3. Finish . Eg a response to r. oi tsuki 1. Move off line to your l . check or divert with l. shuto while striking their r elbow with your r. back fist on their SJ14 ('sting' ) . 2. L . punch into their r kidney , step in so your right leg so your l knee is against their r. knee , applying pressure to destabilize. While strikinge up and around with a right reverse shuto ( the ridge of hand on the thumb side ) at jaw joint TV 16 . 3. Slide step / 'surge' through extending your right hand / arm and curving it down in a sort of 'stiff arm ' rolling the head over to a take down ... 'finish' depends on the dynamic , how you are positioned, how they fall, etc .

and in case he is unknown to some { Now I would not normally recommend listening to Dillman , but this case is an exception ... its rather the 'expose' }

Greetings all , Im new here - first post . Do we have any practitioners of MSSR here ? It is a tradition stemming from Bushi Matsamura > Nabe Matsamura > Hohan Sokken .... Ted Lange .... > > both students of Hohan Sokken Kosei Nishihira ( after Hohan Soken passed on Ted accepted Mr. Nishihira as the 'head' , as well as some others ) Ted, who sadly recently passed on, bought the tradition to Australia . [ My background started with Shotokan , being one of the first students in Australia of Frank Nowak > Sikiran > a bit of Silat in Perth > Aikikai Aikido > and the last 10 + years MSSR } https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosei_Nishihira