WC-Strayder

This MT master who chops thick bamboo with his hands, he also eats iron and shi7s chains, right? You have seen it yourself, right?. And you was not even sweet when you woke up from the dream?. No, I'm just putting you on, some of the old masters is really amazing to watch, but you might want to step down a little, in every art there is a master that can do amazing things and whom eating other masters to lunch.... see? MT itself is watered down to fit in a ring I have been told by someone doing MT, while Wing Chun has not!. We are train to fight in any conditions, not just a ring. We can fight on dry, wet, snowy, slippery and icey surfaces, what about MT? MT can do it, but half of there effective weapons is gone with it. We hit, kick and poke while we playing with feets, knees hands, trapping, clinching, alboes, sholders headbutts, sweeps......, he77, we do just about everything there is of dirty and not so dirty fighting to put you on your a$$ and as far as I know this is not alowed in any ring exept the gladiators ring. Wing Chun just ain't disigned for the ring.... yet! The time when the socalled TMA's styles was hitting thin air when hitting or kicking is, I think more or less over(At least it is is in my case, but others to), thanks to the influence of the UFC and its like and I do believe you gonna see more reallisticlly training in many dojos/kwoons coz of it, but describe every other style as worthless? No, I don't think so. No style is totally complete, it depence on what it is disigned for and what you will use it for, so any style or system have something to offer, offcause!. Someone here like the whole consept of MA and not just the fighting part of it and want's to keep up with it there whole life and a lot of people here and on other forums have forgoten that point. Like a quote I saw on the emty flower forum: Self defence = Skills learned to stay out of shi7 with the help of sosial awareness, eyecontact and common sence etc, etc.... Martial art = Skills from whatever style to help you when your self defens didn't work.... Whatever, I gotta go now. So..... adios amigos

Also heared! Sorry 7*, I know he maybe get me to the ground, but changes are that he get very hurt when trying to!. I'm just sick of the argumentation all the time, thats all. Some has seen a video clip of this and that style gotten beat and thats it, everyone of that perticular style can be beaten, period! But if I say the other way around can happen all he77 is breaking loose, coz no one in UFC has ever bean beaten by it, so it will not happen, period! See my point of viuw? Lets make a litte senario: Me and my lady, who also practice Wing Chun, is a trip to town a saturday night and standing there waiting for a taxi to take us home we are jumped by: 1. Avarage Joe? 2. A serial killer or a bad rapist, out to do us both? or, like everyone seems to believe 3, a wrestler/BJJ ? Pick a number, who do you think is more likelly to jump us in a self defence situation? Gee, I think I'll go for # 3, coz wrestlers/BJJ are such a bad sportsmen and usually jumps unaware peoples on saturday nights just for fun............. I train for self defence and self defence only, I have no intentions fighting it out with a wrestler, but I'm not so sure as you are that of the outcome IF it happend........ Avarage joe on the other hand..... What I do not know is how anyone can be so sure about every grappler out there can take every TMAist out there? Is it just because you'll seen it on a video and based it on that? Or have you tryed it for yourself?. I mean, how can you really, REALLY know? (I'm not even sure if I AM training a TMA, coz the Wing Chun I train is constantlly changing and as far I can see it has only learned me to fight with whats gonna work in a streetfight, with good live training and lot of reality(I had a couple of teeth knocked out a couple of month a go inspite I was wearing teeth protection). Thats baseed from actuall street fighting in my younger days, not a video!!) See http://www.thewingchunschool.com/html/Gary.htm to what this is. or maybe this: http://www.thewingchunschool.com/html/articles.htm would be of any interest... Regards.

Heard!!. No, not biased, just ignorant! What you says is that every one doing BJJ, no matter where they stands or how long there trained, can take/own every one who is doing TMA no matter how long there trained...bla bla bla. Hey, even a norrow minded soul knows that is * big time. No wonder most MMA/BJJ schools are SO expensive then, there are not after everyones money, they just wants the "best", most dedicaded students, right? It's the same story now as it was with Bruce Lee some decades ago, when he said TMA was no good, he also was making his "own" system, JKD, in to a big hit and wanted people to change over to his system, it's the same *, just added a new wraping! Be "a fighter" as mush as you like, I don't care! To bad people buying this shi7, but shi7 happens!

I train at The Wing Chun school, but in norway. See link: http://www.thewingchunschool.com/html/Gary.htm (Click on Norway. It's on norwegian doug) Its more like Combat Wing Chun, we dropped all competition, it's all about self defence..... A LOT of fun! The belt system is there only B-coz it helps us see where people stands in the system, like all sifus have red sash, not there natural colour. Do you not have the belt system where U train, Drunken monkey?

In Wing our weight are on the back leg on about 10/90 ratio,(little more or less here), and that paired with sticky legs, also called "chi Gerk", it will be very hard to sweep us, but not imposible. A sweep will only kick the leg, but not take out our balence and will often be followed up by counter sweeps. I sparred with a black sash (Black belt in Wing Chun) a while ogo and was surpriced on how fast his footwork was. I'm no more than a Yellow belt (White, Yellow, orange, green, purple, blue, brown black) and have trained for one and a half year, but he beat me like I was nothing at all just with his footwork!. He sparred with a new guy who started training with us a couple of weeks before, a TKD black belt , and to my surprice, (I thougth TKD was better) he beat the TKD guy easy. The TKD guy said after the fight that he no protection against low and fast sweeps and because of this he could not kick as he had liked. Another problem for the TKD was that he is used to jump up and down, I don't know about karate, but this is a thing the black sash got advantice of at onze. In wing chun we stand still, just move when we are sure not getting sweept.

No, it was not trolling, but a joke. I do NOT think wrestlers going around beating up people from striking arts.... my point is that avarage joe knows more about striking than wrestling and therefor will strike, not grapple. I'm am 36 years old, I have to go to work every day to suport my lady and two kids, so you can easilly say that I have no time to cross train in two diffrent styles, but have to stick with what I see as the best alternative for defending my self. I firmly believe that Wing chun has what I need to do it and BEFORE you start flaming me thinking so I'll try to explain for you what I mean.... Where I live I can do two things to prepare my self for an attack, I can do Wing Chun, as I do and have done for about one and a half year or I can, like the most of the people does, do nothing!. What do you prefer?. What I'm saying is that you may be a more rounded fighter an all that with cross training, but you do not HAVE to do it to be good in self defence. You talk like a street fight would be like a walk in the park if you do some cross training and sure you would be sligtly better off than me, but thinking that will solve everything is dangerous!. It also depence on personal courage and a lot of other stuff to win, not just the skills you have!. Maybe you will be so scared that you got all stiff and get you beaten up no matter what you train in. I'll had a few streetfights in my life and knows my reaction to punches in the face, like what I feel when my nose was broken or the pain and lameness of a couple broken ribbs, and believe me, I'm mush better prepeared now than back then even if I don't cross train. I have the guts, the stamina AND the skill to meet some lokal trouble maker in a street fight, but I don't have any disire to do it!. So train hard and have an easy fight no matter what you train, just be prepared!.

OK 7*. I know I maybe stretched this "striker" thing a little far but hey, it is only a forum and it is made for different opinions, right?. My point is that you can fight a street fight knowing absolutlly nothing about grappling or wrestling AND win the whole thing against Joe Avarage! I've done it many times , so believe me, you do not have to know anything about grappling OR striking at all, just have the will to win and the will to damage other people badly, coz that is what you gonna do to win a street fight. Just knock'em dead and forget what style you do! Forget the fair and noble, coz there isn't any! Show no m ercy, coz they sure as he77 don't gonne show you anY!! My point is: Do I need more than Wing Chun to win a street fight agains Joe Avarage, maybe a drunk Joe Avarage? No, I do not think so! No, I'm not trying to be ignorant or stupid, just realistic!. I know a street fight depence on a lot of factors, factors you just can't relly on, but knowing what I know that would be like shooting a tiny bird with a AH-64 Apache Longbow, a sure overkill! But then again, many things could happend... He could be a grappler, coz grapplers, as I understand them, are known to be very violent and out on the towns just to beat up strikers...... se my point???? In my club we focus purelly on self defence, no magic, no bullshite, just things that works in every imagineble situation, how many of your clubs do focus on that?. (Answer this with your hand on your heart?) Knife or no knife, gun or no gun, I'll still go for a striking art, coz thats is what you usually would need in a street fight! And, off cause, where is my manners....Happy new year to everybody here on forum, no offence........ LOL

Maybe your right, but I still prefer to hit my attacker rather than grab him or throw him. What IF he isn't unarmed, he has a consealed knife!. You do not know that and if you fooling people to wrestle with a bullie on the street you sure ask for them to get stabed!. Flawed or not, I still put my money on distance, holding the attacker away from me, kicking and hitting him. I can take a hit or two, but a knife?. Think about it, would you take that change??. Again, no disrespect to other styles and systems, but I really think you over estimate grappling!. If you are close enough to grab him he is close enough to stab you, if you keep him in your hitting distance atleast you have a change to see that knife!. So sorry, but I do not bye that "are not fully efficent as a fighter if you don't graple" propaganda anymore!.

OK, let me get a couple of things strait here. If Joe Avarage attacs you on the street he would not know a thing about striking but he knows a lot about grappling/wrestling? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so! In all the fights I have had I never EVER had one of them on the ground, it was striking\kicking all over the place and dare the man who fell to the ground! I personally think you are far better of in a self defence situation knowing a striking art than a grappling art, both striking and grappling is better yet, but if you only gonna use your MA for self defence, then pick a striking art for sure! Forget what you see in UFC, most fights are over in 3 seconds! You don't have the time fooling around on the ground or roll with him until he chokes or taps out, just take him out with punch and/or kicks and get the he77 out of the situation, he might have friends!. I know that many styles, grappling styles included, that don't have self defence training at all or training self defence unrealisticklly, but it all depence on what you gonna use it for, self defence or competition. No disrespect, but I think TKD is a scary example, just so many people thinks that there TKD gonna save them, but they are so wrong! High kicks, unrealistic blocks, pretty, fancy stuff and fair game just isn't for the streets, believe me, I've tried!. No more than rolling on the ground is realistic in a street fight!. But thats my opinion. I do not train to do any competition, I train strickly for self defence and have no fancy stuff, just stuff that works. I would defentlly go for a striking art, or pure self defence art, not for cross training or pure grappling.

Quote from jeffrogers: I doubt this guy you mentioned can beat a low level MMA fighter much less a high end pro. Carefull whit what you claim here, take a look at this instead: http://www.wingtsun.nl/chal-grc.htm The same guy!. Just a lot of * from the Gracies, all of the fighters they hed in the UFC is paid off..... to bad.

Sevenstar wrote: "That goes for any style. usually though, it's the mma guys who are more than happy to back it up." Where do this MMA guys back this up? And why is it so that everyone has to prove him self in a competition? Where does this comes from? Can't just everyone get there training in peace and train whatever they want too train? If someone want's to fight for a lump sum of money and fame, fine with me, but I'm starting to get really sick every time I'M reading something and they backs it up with, "in UFC they do this and this and this and they all got beaten....! , coz it means nothing when your a** in on the line in a self defence situation, like I'm training for. The mugger/rapeist/bully ain't paid like the guys in this games, he maybe likes to beat people up and you might wake up in a hospial if you don't do all you can to prevent him from doing it. It is not often I take time to discuss anything on this board coz all I see here is a bunch of keyboard warriors who thinks UFC is the ultimate thing, (and it is for the Gracies, there loaded with cash, cash from you guys), in fighting, but the truth is diffrent, sorry.

learn to fight = stay away from kung fu? What is a fight? Is a fight UFC? Cagewars? Street fight? What is a fight?. Back in my younger days I was fighting everyone who was dumb enough to fight me, wrestlers and karateka's too and the funny thing is that I had no training what so ever back then!!! Can I take a wrestler to day? A BJJ practitioner? Sure I can! No, not everyone, it all depens how good he is compaerd to me and how mush damage he is willing to take/give and how tough he is, but too say that kung fu is worthless is bull s*it!!!! So what the he77 do you thinking you are when you saying something like "stay away from....."? You realize off corce, (at least I hope you do) that the so called UFC and simular is just a show, sort off like the american wrestler show, a little different, but it is still a show and upon that you jugde other systems?. Thats not even ignorant, just plain stupid! All we say here will just be words and nothing else and if you are so dumb that you judge a style/system on what you see in a game or a ring or in a video it is your problem, I say thats ignorant and if you think it over for a sec you will think so too. I agree however, that some schools/dojo's/Kwoon's train there students poor and they lack every element in a MA style, but judging all on that?. I do not think so! Have a good training too ya all.

It is 3 forms of lies and that is; A lie, a darn lie and statistics..... and yes, it says something in general, that some of you believe everything you see on videos. LOL. Everyone know, or should know, that it isn't purely the style you train in it all depence on, but also the practitioner of that style and s/he's abillity to use what s/he had learned. So train hard and fight eazy folks.....

Quote from Treebranch "Yeah, I see what he is saying. I hear that about everything these days. Karate doesn't work, Kung Fu doesn't work, TJJ doesn't work, Aikido doesn't work. I hear it about anything that isn't BJJ or Muay Thai or some form of MMA. " Your right. But Neo used kung fu agaist Mister Smith, didn't he? LOL Sorry guys, but I do not think Matrix had been the same movie if Neo had rolled with Smith with some dull BJJ or something.... (JUST kidding!) I think Kung Fu is best known for the life style behind and for the richness of styles, at least I do think it is known for that.

It had been and will be both ways I guess. It also have to do with the men/woman that fights, not just the style. Some people seems to believe that all they see on video is the god forsaken truth, but after what I had seen of the so called Wing Chun videos, and many others too, is that the practitioner aren't even close to being even beginners and have not prepared at all before they showed up. All I say is that it is stupid to jugde a style out of videos; even I can do better than most of the people shown on this videos and it all depens on who pratice the most I think.

Both. You need to defend your body with hands and legs and will off coz attack with both too. Like Drunken Monkey says, half of the body covers with arms, the other half with legs and in wing chun we attack/defend with both, but we kick rearlly over the waist coz of balance.

I must say that I think Treebranch is right TJS. TJS always refers to UFC or NHB when he states a point or talking about a tecnique and is totally convinced that every thing that he have not seen in this events isn't gonna work in real life.... I know for a fact that joint locks works, even if you are standing, coz I tried them, but then again, I never seen a single video from UFC or NHB, so I might be wrong, off cause.................. I think you see to mush video, or laying to mush weight on what you see there. Try something for yourself for a change, but that's just my opinion.......

Reallity and fiction is two very different things I'm affraid. On a scale from 1 to 100 I guess you have a fraction of 1 % to kill anyone with "a one hit blow"! Then consider yourself very unlucky, coz you just killed someone's kid........

Off cause. My mistake, I'm sorry. What I ment to say, reading this mag again, is that silat maybe the only style whom make dead and killing look nice, coz it is so gracefull.... my mistake, take it back. Thanks Kirves, for correcting me.

I do not know them. (perhaps lucky for me ???) Frankly I don't know silat other than what I read and Dance of dead is what they called it. Silat use senter line sort of stuff they to, don't they?

I have seen my main sifu brake the arm of my clubs dummy, so don't you dare say it can't happend!. The next thing you might say now is that this was pre aranged... but you are wrong. He had never been in our kwoon before and it was not his intention to do it, it just happend. I can, on the other hand, go for the teori of some bad wood in the arm, but the wood looked just fine, so I really don't know. He just hit it clean off.

In Wing Chun we have forms. Not many, but a few and I think there are a great way to improve my teckniques, but I'll sure will get my butt kicked if I try to fight with them. Try to look at them for what they are, not what they are not. Spar is the modern way of training someone wrote here, but off cause!. We do that to and off cause, they did that before to!. Don't be foolish. Forms are a great way to improve and remember things and tecknique by, so don't try to give them any other "secret" or "hidden" meanings, coz that is all they do, nothing else. I do one every day, the first one we learned in Wing Chun, the Sil Nim Tao form, sometimes more than one time to and I love it!. It gives me a great way to improve my weapons, to feel my own body and to bread properly and right. I use it as a tool, nothing else and if you can't se anything good with it then it is your problem. I will use it as it is anyway, no matter what you guys deside of it. So long boyz 'N girlz. It's summertime in Norway now, so I rather enjoy Sil Nim Tao in the sun instead of in front of this dumb PC...... May the force be with you. Soon we learn flying too......

Yeah, good article. It raises some of the biggest arguments in MA, sport or self defence, what's best. Hard to say. It is totally up to you, it is what you like. I personally think that the way this article describes "the combat" styles is from the past, before people "woke" up a little and don't get around so mush to day. Maybe in the socalled McDojos, yes, but in most schools and clubs today I think they train realistically, with sparring, testing and failing, so I think it's little off line to day. Maybe I'm wrong, but I personally can't say we train in any stuff that won't work in a self defence situation, but I know a few socalled sport karate schools that think they train self defence, but really can't fight there way out of paper bag. I think they are dangerous to.

In no particular order: 1. Shotgun 2. Howbitzer 3. A bomb 4. Cruise missile 5. don't be there the trouble is at all 6. 100 pals lined up behind you 7. bullit proff vest 8. bow and arrow 9. an F-14 Tomcat 10. AH-64 Apache D type "Longbow" helicopter Just kidding off cause, coz this means war, not self defence. I agree totally with aznkarateboi, but agrees a little more with TJS, coz he had some more great stuff added on the list... Sun, fun and nothing to doooo...... having a blast.....

Off cause style matter. Both, B-coz it also depence on how well the person have learned the style and how well that person use teckiques he has learn. I off cause, have to say Wing Chun. Silat is called "Dance of dead", but isn't that more for the show than for good use. Don't hang me on this one, that is just what I had read about Silat. Personally I just know what I'll read about it so please correct me if I'm wrong.