MatsuShinshii

I agree with you Sensei8 but there is a difference in that I do not concern myself with retaining students. If a student is serious and understands the value of my teaching them the art I don't need to worry about retention. Serious students will understand that respect is given to them and therefore must be given in return. I treat everyone, not just students, with the utmost respect until they prove they do not deserve it. If this happens my retention is the last thing I am concerned about. My personal philosophy is that I have taken on the responsibility of passing on my art to worthy students that will in turn carry it on for future generations. This to me is more important than any one single student with an attitude. Like you I demand 100% and yes, I guess I could be called a taskmaster or sometimes worse. However those that I feel are worthy of my art I also feel are part of my family and as such I treat them with the respect deserving of a family member. I am harder on myself than I am on my students and I have always believed that the best way is to lead by example. As such it is difficult for my students to say I am unfair or overly demanding as they see what I demand of myself. To that point, I extend my respect the moment they walk through the door. If it is not returned, as I said before, I have no issue in showing them the door. As far as I am concerned you are either a worthy student or you're not a student. If your mouth engages without the benefit of good common sense and good manners, believe me, I have no issue loosing a new student. I would rather concentrate my time on those that are serious about training and have invested years into training rather than try to teach a punk. Maybe in my younger years I would have had that type of patience but no longer. This may make me a bad business owner (but then again I do not do this for a living so...) but the students I train don't feel I am a bad CI.

I wouldn't be concerned. Yes the test is a pressure cooker of sorts to see how you will handle the stress. However this is just another opportunity for you to learn something about yourself. It's a teachable moment for yourself. If you learn from it and identify what caused you to stress, you can better control it. As instructors, as long as we do not run Mega Dojo's with 1000's of students, we know when a student has reached the point that they have achieved the skill and knowledge to move to the next step on their journey. The test IMHO is more for the student than it is for the teacher to assess them. Remember "to thy own self be true". Use these moments in your life to learn something about your weaknesses and strengths and use it to better yourself. This is after all, what it's all about. It's your journey. As with anything the more you do it the better you'll get at it. It's good that you are concerned about your abilities and knowledge because this will motivate you to overcome these deficits. This is what makes us better.

I'm from an older generation so this was never an issue. Like DWx stated we were brought up to respect our elders. Inside the Dojo the same applies in that we respected those with more experience and years of study. Of course back then they also demanded that respect, if you know what I mean. With today's generation this is not taught and parents are the primary reason along with the new PC way of raising children. I won't get on a soap box of what I think the problems are specifically because it will border on a political rant. I'll suffice it to say that if a student comes to me for instruction I'll accept no less than the respect I deserve and the respect I give my students. If they do not show respect I show them the door. No arguments, no second chances. Gone!

I think it falls under integrity. You either have it or you don't. If you're teaching something that you are not qualified to teach then you have no integrity. If your selling this "unqualified knowledge" to others you're a crook. Its simple really. If you are not graded in an art what would make you think you're qualified to teach it to others? It boils down to this type of individual having absolutely no integrity and whether they understand it or not it reflects on them and their art poorly. If you wish to pass a skill onto your students either take the time to learn it and gain the qualifications or bring someone that has the qualifications in to teach it. I'm not sure who these people think they are fooling. Any bystander can see they do not have the skills fostered by years of training. It's hard to respect a person like that no matter how many years they have in their art and what grade they have attained. Greed over integrity pure and simple.

Congrats Shizentai, well deserved.

Your instructor already knew you were at that level before he invited you to test. He would not have promoted you if he did not think you were worthy. The jitters get to all of us at some point in time. Congrats! Well deserved.

Well yes and no. I was always taught that it was wrong to hit a lady. To this day I have never raised my hand to a lady or for that matter a woman. If a woman comes at me empty handed then I will walk away or control her until she calms down. I hate to say it but if a woman comes at me with a weapon she'll be coughing up teach for a week. The way I see it is if a woman wants to act like a punk then she needs to be ready to accept the consequences of being a punk just like any man. In training however... everything goes out the window. I believe in contact. Contact is a great teacher. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the men get to wail on female students. What is good for one gender is good for another. In fact I see no gender in a Dojo. If someone, no matter the gender, color, race, religion, creed, etc. wants special treatment they need to look elsewhere. I hold everyone to the same standards I hold myself. Once you enter the Dojo floor you are the same as anyone else. To be honest, I think some instructors do women a disservice by going easy. Who needs to know how to defend themselves against a larger opponent more, a man or a woman? Who is more likely to be attacked? If anything I'm tougher on women because they need to learn these skills and understand how to deal with what will happen and how to deal with it. In the Dojo, leave your gender and every other hang up at the door. They're not welcome.

Congrats! You beat me to it! Two of you caught that! I really need to choose my words more wisely I guess. You guys are too sharp. Well I did say future at least. 16 would be future.

Wow I should have seen that one coming. Good catch. Obviously I will wait until he/she is old enough and mature enough to train. Man I should have knew that one was going to come back. I guess I'm getting old. I am a grandpa!

I hate to break into your discussion but I have to say that this ONE woman's and this ONE man's demonstration of skills or the lack there of was ridiculous. Here comes a what if, IF she had been trained outside of the tournament circuit she would have destroyed that sloth. No offense but he was less than less impressive. In terms of who won the fight, just on shear hits I would have to give it to the woman. Put some power behind those punches and actually follow up and he would have been sleeping on the mat. The fact is she did no justice to women in the arts and he certainly did no justice to men. It was a set up rule bound joke. Taking a tournament trained athlete and putting her against a guy that looks like he has never been in a fight in his life and bill it as this vs. that makes all MA's look like a joke. The guy did next to nothing and she struck him "x" number of times with absolutely no effect. Who cares about gender, she did no service for the MA's in general. It was a joke!

I'm going to be a grandpa! I'm thinking new student.

Are you referring to the two-method system that uses the Condorcet winner, if one exists, but switches to a Borda count if one does not? I know we all study Martial Arts but when you speak Chinese the rest of us Okinawan and Japanese practitioners can't understand. No seriously you totally lost me.

Gotta love the left overs!

First off let me welcome you if I had not already to KF Israfilhaque1230. I appreciate your point of view and you posting it. As with anything comments and views are subjective. To me, I see what I see and tell it like I see it. I'll agree that the young lady had skills, just not the type that would have helped her if she didn't have a ton of room to run and bounce around and stay away from the guy IMHO. If this video was of a real comparison and she did her little point fighting bit, she would have been torn apart against someone that meant to do her harm. If anything this video was an exhibition of her tournament skills over real fighting skills. As far as he is concerned, you say grounded, I say he was a lousy example of a street fighter. He may be from the streets but a fighter he was not. I do not see a fighter when I watch that video. There was no aggression or intent. I saw no real skill. He essentially watched her do her thing and didn't take advantage of any openings. More so to the point, when he had her down and was in the position to do some damage he allowed her back to her feet. Anyone with a bit of experience would have side stepped her straight lunging punch and dropped her. Having said that I was brought up not to strike girls but in the context of this video, the intent was this style vs. this style and in that context there is the expectation of both fighters to defend themselves. She was IMHO the only one in the fight. Because this is a forum of idea's and opinions, we will not all be in agreement. That's ok because we get to read other view points and often this will make us think and maybe even learn from the others here. Having said that I don't want you to think that we pick apart every example of martial arts that is different than ours either. This is a place to express idea's and yes, if asked, to give our opinions. I may be guilty of giving my opinion even when there was no question. Again I welcome you and thank you for your post.

Well since it's almost Christmas can I choose the toys now and the training later? I do like toys and I've been a good boy all year! Stop laughing. No really.

Well if I ever get out to Tulsa I'll drop in on both of you. We'll prove it on the floor Bob.

See Matsu, this is why I would love to train Karate with you. If I were in Kentucky I would probably try and do that. The ability to admit when you don't know everything. Most of my regular training partners in Judo and Jiujitsu will be the first to direct you somewhere else if you come looking for striking training, even though several of them ARE black belts in Karate/Tae-kwon-do and one of them is a former pro kickboxer. I don't even list Karate among my styles HERE though I have been doing it off and on for 20+ years. The thing is, it's still not my area of expertise. Yet, when I speak to people, in my area anyway, who have maybe 6 months to a year part time training in a grappling discipline they will be happy to tell me all about how they are great at it. Marketing. It's all just marketing. And don't think that the Jiu-jitsu schools are immune to this either. Commercial martial arts schools are simply vulnerable to marketing based ego drives or ego-based marketing drives. If your ever in Kentucky or if I am ever in Oklahoma I'd love to train with you. You can teach me how not to become a pretzel. My problem with that video is that they have never, as far as I know, had a ground fighting element to their art. I train in what I call old school Suidi (Shuri-te) and we do have a small element of ground fighting but it's not what those today would consider ground fighting. It comes from Gou Quan or Dog boxing. It's mainly fighting from the ground with the intent of getting back to our feet which is where I want to be. Its not fighting on the ground and rolling around with someone waiting for them to make a mistake so I can twist them into a pretzel knot. Its used to damage the opponent, create enough space or take them down so you can get up. I have nothing against those arts that recognize they have a weakness and want to learn how to improve it. What I have a problem with is these high ranked instructors passing off basic level skills to their students as if they will be able to contend with a BJJ practitioner in their element. Its irresponsible and dangerous. Make your money selling something that you actually know about. I personally would never want someone to film me fighting a BJJ guy if it went to the ground because they would hear and see things that would be a huge source of embarrassment for me for the rest of my life. I'm not a ground fighter nor do I claim to be. As you said my expertise is on my feet. Why then would I learn a few moves off of a Youtube video or from a class/seminar I took and pass it off to my students to give them false confidence in a game they can not win? This is not the responsible behavior that I would expect from a high ranking teacher of an art. It personally sickens me. I took Judo for a few years (Not a BB) and can tell you that his hold down skills are a joke. That coming from a Yonkyu in Judo (me) commenting on the hold down skills of a grand master (in his art). And believe me when I say that if I think that is a basic knowledge it's less than that because I only have a basic knowledge and can execute better hold down skills than he was. That's truly not saying much about this man's skill because I... well I'm not that good at it. I say stick to what you know and if you want your students to learn how to be effective on the ground create a relationship with a local MMA or BJJ or Jujutsu instructor and have them go their to learn the art and maybe he can send his students to you for striking skills. Don't teach it as if you know what you're doing. As pointed out in another post, just because you wear that belt does not make you that grade in another art. Well that's going to get me into another rant about grades from one art thinking they deserve the same in a different art. I'll stop here or I'll be angrily hitting keys all night and won't be able to sleep. The point is we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. If you wish to make money from your students then do it teaching them something you actually know and give them value for their hard earned money not a pipe dream that will get them twisted into a pretzel knot.

Well said sir. Solid post!

I understand that we use titles that our organization or those above us use to designate hierarchy within the ranks. Believe me I get it. We introduced the title of Shihan many years ago and it's gone rampant as a status symbol. I personally do not use this title. I call myself one title and my students call me the same title. Shinshiii (teacher). I see no reason to call myself anything else except maybe student. I think most titles serve one purpose... to bolter ones ego. Sorry I'm a bit opinionated and set in my ways. Not much gray area in my views and I tend to express them even though it goes against the grain at times and no one asked for them in the first place. I totally understand your point. I also understand that some titles are forced based on the organizations wants rather than the individuals. Up until relatively recently (10-15 years), I’m pretty sure there were only 3 official titles in Seido - Sensei, Shihan Dai, and Shihan. I’m assuming Kaicho too, but that’s the head of the organization’s title. Senpai was used, but it wasn’t tied to any specific rank or the like. According to my teacher, as the organization grew and people started advancing in rank, Nakamura wanted to recognize and distinguish his upper-most students. His top 3 students have been with him for over 50 years, and he wanted a special way to show them the respect they deserved. He didn’t want everyone addressing and referring to people like them in the same way that they did with others who haven’t put in the time and dedication they did. At their heart, titles are a way to honor someone. The downside to that of course, is some people give themselves a title and demand to be respected without actually earning it, and/or trying to make people think they’re someone they’re not. Just as with a rank, a title doesn’t make nor define the person; the person defines the title/rank. I’ve got no problem calling my teacher shuseki shihan. He’s earned it. I think he’s genuinely humbled and honored to have been given and earned that title from his teacher, but I know he’d be the same guy without any of it. If he wasn’t the same guy without it, I wouldn’t be his student for very long. Please not there’s no angry, mean, defensive tone intended in my language here. Re-reading it, I think it might be interpreted that way. Not at all and I understand your point. I guess that is my problem with titles, to many people that do not deserve them, haven't earned them, do not understand the meaning of them, and abuse them are the ones using them. I have no issue with a teacher of the arts with 50 years in calling themselves whatever they wish to. However I find it ludicrous that someone that has less than half of that same experience holding the same title. I have no problem with titles in general. Sensei, Shinshii, Shihan, and the like are usually titles that define the role one plays in the organization as a teacher. I'm cool with that even though I prefer to just be called Shinshii (teacher). My issue primarily is with the term/title of master. For one I think it's abused and over used and like I have stated previously I personally do not feel that you can ever master the art and thus by it's very definition be called a Master. Most titles, especially those from other cultures are misinterpreted and grossly over used by westerners as a way to elevate them or set them apart from everyone else. Have you ever notice how many titles have sprung up over the past 20 or 30 years? It used to be Sensei was a revered title. Now it's been lowered because so many others have been placed above it. I have heard many titles that 20 or 30 years ago no one even knew existed. Instead of just Sensei (Shinshii) and O'Sensei (O'Shinshii) there is Tashi, Shidoin, Jun-Shidoin, Shihan, Dai Shihan, Soke, Kaiso, Kancho, DojoCho, Sosei, Sempai, Dai Sempai, Shodai Soke, Shidoin, Fuku Shidoin, Master, Grand Master, Meijin, Renshi, Kyoshi and Hanshi to name the ones I could remember and found on a quick google search. I guess I have the same problem with too many titles as I do with too many belts. Just how many belts and titles does one art need? To me this degrades their meaning when you have a title for every step someone takes up the proverbial martial arts ladder. It's the same thing with grades(belts) and how they are degraded due to being added in with the other 100 belts to the extent that a Yudansha grade no longer means anything other than "just another belt". I get it but I guess I just don't like it. Personal opinion and nothing more. And like you I mean no malice or anger, just one mans opinion for what that is worth.

To make sure I fully understand your question, you are talking about a disagreement between a student and a teacher? If this is the case then here is my answer; A teacher does not loose their temper with their students. If they do they are not worthy of teaching. If there is something I do not like that a student is doing I tell them to stop. If they do not I tell them to leave. If a student looses their temper with their teacher it's up to the teacher how they deal with it. Personally I would show them the door until they can learn how to show the proper respect. If a student is quick to temper to the point where they would actually get in a teachers face, this is IMHO not a student. This is an example of someone I do not need to teach fighting techniques to. They are gone and someone else's problem. If this is a student on student argument, then this is up to the teacher to deal with in any way they see fit. I personally do not put up with this type of behavior in class.

I understand that we use titles that our organization or those above us use to designate hierarchy within the ranks. Believe me I get it. We introduced the title of Shihan many years ago and it's gone rampant as a status symbol. I personally do not use this title. I call myself one title and my students call me the same title. Shinshiii (teacher). I see no reason to call myself anything else except maybe student. I think most titles serve one purpose... to bolter ones ego. Sorry I'm a bit opinionated and set in my ways. Not much gray area in my views and I tend to express them even though it goes against the grain at times and no one asked for them in the first place. I totally understand your point. I also understand that some titles are forced based on the organizations wants rather than the individuals.

I really hate to be so opinionated again but what was that?????????????? Ego much? That was neither informative or useful IMHO. Nothing against Korean arts whatsoever but why does every known art have to have a ground fighting element when it never did before? I would have more respect for this man if he were showing fighting from the ground applications rather than ground fighting applications. Why would anyone go to a TKD school to learn ground fighting???????? I get that this is a weak point for many of us and our arts but learning a few moves online or during a seminar does not a master make. Even I can see the basic understanding of the applications. I guess that means that a doctor can perform surgery after watching it being performed by someone with those actual skills? I think I'll make a ground fighting video and sell it. I'm sure people would flock to buy it. For martial arts bloopers that is.

I disagree that this is an example of woman vs man self defense. For one the guy made no attempt at striking her when she was most vulnerable. Every time he gained control he let her go. Her strikes had no purpose other than to score points. Real self defense is not about points. Waiting for her to loose energy? If this was real she would have better served herself by running away from Mr. lazy rather than tapping him multiple times. In a real scenario she would have enraged an attacker not dissuaded him. Again I disagree. The fight went her way IMHO. She was able to bounce around and tap him at will. The guy had no intent whatsoever. Had he mustered up an ounce of rage she would have been tackled and destroyed. This is my issue with point fighting. There is no purpose past getting points and it has no basis of realism whatsoever. I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I could not agree more. The fight was not an example of when a trained Karateka fights a street fighter. There were most definitely rules set in place. Why else would he allow her to get back to her feet or not engage when she went to the ground? It's because rules were established ahead of time. Bottom line is she could have done major damage to a sloth like this if she knew how to actually fight. He could have done the same damage if he wasn't the laziest man alive or strapped down with rules that were put on him prior to the fight. I have to believe its one of the two reasons. Even a person with no training has an aggression level after being hit "x" number of times. He may have been biding his time but what about when that time came and she was down? It's fake IMHO. A staged fight to bolster the girl and to make the point that girls can fight men. This point could have been made better by a girl that was trained to fight rather than patty cake and a guy that wasn't asleep. This IMHO was a terrible step backwards for making that point. Yes girls can defend themselves very well against a male attacker and I wholeheartedly believe that, just not like this.

1 to 1 is the best way to learn IMHO.

Shishee is accomplished most efficiently by using chinkuchi. You can have one without the other, but chinkuchi will allow you to deliver your force as efficiently as possible. You have a very good grasp of the art Wastelander. It was a bit of a tricky question but you are spot on. I appreciate your explanation.