hansenator

As far as fight scenes go, I think the most realistic would be the ones that don't have the look of obvious martial arts styles. I thought the last couple of James Bond movies were pretty good. The fight scenes were kind of ugly and awkward and didn't look stylized or anything. I also remember a scene in Johnny Mnemonic where he did some kind of take down on a bad guy. It was too quick to really see but it looked like something from Silat.

When you say "stretch" your elbow, do you mean you straighten it all the way and it still looks bent? Because my elbow is like that and there's really nothing that can be done, it just doesn't go all the way straight.

My thoughts were to look at the way boxers train and what do they do to develop the qualities they have. In this case, their fluidity, grace, and apparent east of movement. Then adapt those training methods for use with kung fu technique. The goal being to internalize the movement and body mechanics of kung fu to the point where I'm no longer 'doing' kung fu. And there's no reason to limit it to punching either. I'd be interested in how kickboxers train and grapplers too. Not so much to learn their techniques but to adapt their training methods for my own use. It's a hold-over from my JKD days. Their idea was to look at what the best are doing and see what it is that makes them so good. One style might have wrist locks for example but it's not what they 'do'. Instead, look at how wrist lock specialists train, what are they doing that makes them so successful? That's how Thai pads came into use in the JKD community. They looked at the most successful kickboxers and found an awesome training tool for conditioning and developing your power base.

I like those ideas. I think it's important to get experience like that and, at least from what I've seen, most classes don't do enough. Unfortunately, I don't know any boxers and I'm still at a beginner level in the kung fu class so there isn't much sparring yet. I'm still at the 'tool development' stage in this style. I was in a JKD class for several years and they really emphasized footwork, body mechanics, movement, coordination, etc. After a while it becomes natural and you don't really think about it. You just move around and try different things and experiment but the movement qualities are there. I'd like to reach that stage in kung fu now. The technique feels less natural and requires more effort and I'm trying to understand how it would be applied in a live environment. I'm kind of playing around with it and trying to get a feel for it but, at some level, I'm also wondering "would this be considered proper kung fu technique?" I think I'm still trying to understand the relation between formal exercises and practical usage.

Have you been checked out by a doc? If I do too much, things become harder and I get tired more easily. Taking it easy for a while helps with that. What you describe sounds a bit more extreme though. If rest doesn't help, I'd get looked at.

I've been thinking about kung fu punches (Choy Li Fut) and ways to train them, not just so they look good but to be able to actually use them. It occurred to me that western boxers are some of the best punchers around, it's what they do and they do it well, and I figured they know a thing or two about becoming a proficient puncher. So I started to wonder if there's training methods or lessons a kung fu stylist could adopt from boxers and I'd like to see what other people think. The heavy bag, or some kind of impact training device, is a no brainer. Everyone has something like that. I also like shadow boxing, it seems like a way to get a lot of repetition and use some creativity in a less structured type of drill. The speed bag is a lot of fun to work on but I'm not sure how it applies to kung fu or where I would put one but the double end bag is something I can put in the garage easily enough and I'm deciding what I might do with something like that. Beyond just new training implements to play with though, can anyone offer drills or an approach to training to really develop hand striking? I'm thinking mostly about just the hand strikes right now, along with some footwork and kicking too I suppose. My goal is to develop the ease of movement, fluidity, and spontaneity you see in boxers but using kung fu technique. I've become less interested in fancy techniques over the years or being technically "correct" in the sense that it looks good on stage. Mostly I want to develop powerful basics that feel natural and that I can use with confidence. Thanks.

I was in a JKD class for several years and they said the old timers would practice the high kicks, they called it aerobics. Also what you pointed out, that kicking high and kicking low are separate skills. Just because you can kick high, doesn't automatically mean your low kicks will be good. The JKD class kicking was mostly at or below the waist. Also a lot of emphasis on using the hands and feet in combination. They kicked Thai pads a lot but it was explained that was considered conditioning and you normally wouldn't kick that high.

I've been paying attention to some of the above tips and found that my support foot isn't turning as much as I thought. And I'm not careful, the hip turns over too far and interferes with the leg extension. Something to pay attention to during practice.

Thanks for the tips, I'll have to pay attention them. It seems chambering is the part I most struggle with. The support foot turns over alright, it's the kicking side hip action. Maybe a problem with internal hip rotation, on the left leg especially. I don't think it's a mobility issue because, if I'm slow and deliberate, I can do it well. It also seems to help if I do something to activate the internal rotators before kicking.

The rear leg side kick has always been my nemesis. If I practice slowly, step-by-step, my form is good but I struggle to improve it. I just can't speed it up without sacrificing technique and smoothness. My lead leg side kicks are pretty good overall but the rear leg kick has always been a struggle. I almost posted this on the Tae Kwon Do forum because kicking is their specialty but I don't practice Tae Kwon Do and I wanted to try to reach a larger audience. Are there any tips or technique drills that can improve performance on this kick? I'm not even trying to kick higher, just trying to develop a solid mid-level kick. Thanks.

I'm not really familiar with this. Can you share the highlights or is there a good place to read about it?

Thanks for posting your thoughts everyone. It's true that, at least around here, you don't see kung fu as often. Most of the MA schools seem to be Tae Kwon Do or Karate, in that order. Kung fu is around though, even if it's not as firmly entrenched. My current instructor spent time training in China and I believe Gin Foon Mark from Southern Mantis resides in the U.S. Kung fu practice does seem to be very stylized, but I think the principles it's based on are sound. I think it has strayed a bit from its combative roots. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I'm in it more for fun and fitness than for fighting. It would be nice to feel like I could use it if I have to though. People could probably find ways to pressure test it if they wanted. I like to think of it in terms of "classical presentation" versus "practical application." I've seen some Silat, which looks a lot like Kung Fu if you're not familiar with it, and there's no doubt in my mind it can be effective. But the people who've shown me have been pretty talented and make a habit of pressure testing things.

People like Iaian Abernethy are doing the Practical Karate thing and a lot of self-defense classes seem to be karate based. Also, traditional martial arts that make it into competitions like UFC seem to be mostly karate. Maybe there’s a lot I’m not aware of but it seems like you don’t see kung fu as often even though it contains lots of techniques which would be legal in a UFC environment and it has self-defense techniques galore. Am I completely ignorant on this point or is kung fu under-represented in the world of self-defense/competition/security? Is there something about the history of the different martial arts in this country or the personality type of the people who tend to practice it? I'm just curious. Thanks.

I came across this video about the kung fu bow stance. He's a little long winded but it's consistent with what my own experience has been so I'm curious what other people think?

So it's like a type of meditation?

I have something like that. My physical therapist said it's from instability and had me start doing the dead bug exercise. You can find it on YouTube. Keeping in mind of course that your case might be different from mine.

I'm reminded of one guy I know who brought up the point that the people who are the most skilled/experienced/competent tend to not talk about it as much. He then continued with "take myself for example". I had to wonder if he was actually listening to himself.

That is undoubtedly true but after 2 years of good training your basic punches and kicks should be at a functional level. You should continue to practice and improve them of course but I think you reach a level of diminishing returns where you can put in a huge amount of time to make your punch a tiny bit better. Maybe some of that time would be better spent working on other areas.

The term "martial arts" is pretty general. You could discuss the origins of a particular style but I would guess that anyone who has deliberately improved their fighting skill had some form of martial arts. Which would mean that martial arts originated wherever there were people.

This might be a trivial question but I'm curious and haven't been able to find much. Is anyone familiar with Shaolin round kicks? I kind of know how the Tae Kwon Do and the traditional karate guys practice their round kicks, is the Shaolin kick similar to one of these? As I said, kind of trivial but I'm going through a round kick phase right now. This means I've been practicing, researching, trying to improve on little details, and have been generally interested in learning more. Thanks.

I'll put in another vote for the best instructor. The way an instructor runs the class, and the depth of his/her knowledge varies greatly and makes all the difference. Also the instructor's preferences play role. From my own experience: The "best" class I've been to was a Kali/JKD class. The training was top notch and the instructors knowledge and ability were at a professional level. I also attended a Shorin Ryu class that was worthless but I know other karate schools are run much differently and can be very good.

Forgive me for saying but your chief instructor sounds like kind of a jerk. If you shop around I'd say the instructor is more important than the style. I've trained in a few different styles over the years and enjoyed them all but some classes definitely had a higher level of instruction.

Wow, thanks for the explanation. It almost sounds like Choy Li Fut is more of a category than a particular style. I'm not familiar with the concept of 'seeds' but I can see how there can be differences between schools. When you refer to "the orthodox Chan CLF line", is that considered closer to the original system?

I've been going to a Choy Li Fut school lately and really like it. I also went to a different Choy Li Fut class many years ago for a short time (about three months) and the two classes are very different, you wouldn't even recognize them as the same style. The previous class was associated with Doc Fai Wong's Plum Blossom organization and I'm not sure about the details of the current class. The current instructor has also trained in Shaolin and some others so I wonder if that has influenced the curriculum? I was just wondering if anyone could tell me about different branches in Choy Li Fut? What are the differences and how did they came to be? How different can two Choy Li Fut styles be before one if them is no longer Choy Li Fut?

You're right of course but my legs are still sore. When I say "Stance training", I'm not referring to holding a single position for extended periods, except for the beginning of class where we hold a horse stance for a while. Then there's a sequence where you shift between the basic stances, there's like 6 or 7 of them depending how you count, that gets your heart rate up after a few times through. Drills up and down the room are all in different stances. Then forms practice. It's all very tiring.