TJ-Jitsu

Man you guys are slacking.... there have been no discussions for a long time. Let me start a fire and grab some gas.... So virtually all tournies nowadays are submission only with no emphasis on points. A decade or two ago you used to hear people say things like "I fight for the sub, not for points." That's perfectly well and fine within the sport, but leaves a gaping hole for your practical applications (ie fighting). No one in jiu jitsu knows how to pass a guard anymore, mostly because there is no incentive when you can just drop on a foot. IMO most lightweight black belts have the passing level of a purple belt, they merely have good experience doing it. The problem I see is that sometimes position IS a submission when you're talking about practical applications. Submission is not the end all be all of grappling and fighting- its merely one way of winning. The other way is cracking your opponents skull. This strategy that grapplers are developing now isn't helping them because it essentially is the complete opposite of positional emphasis. What we're seeing now is "fighters" who have no takedowns, no guard passes, and no good pressure. They're really good in one particular niche of the game, but nothing else. Compare this to say wrestlers where the strategy is the opposite- there are no submissions but dominant position is paramount. I'd suppose that's the reason why wrestlers tend to adapt better to MMA than your modern jiu jitsu guys.... Argue please...

Hmmm, well... but... eh hem- maybe..... Yeah I've got nothing to add

So if I may... Yes the gloves are heavier but you need them to protect your hands. I mean the core issue of the problem is you- lack of snap isn't the fault of the gloves, its the fault of you. This isn't a "yes or no" in terms of "do you know how to throw a punch" and more about "how well do you know how to throw a punch." I'm with you about the gloves inhibiting a bit, but this is a blessing not a curse. Consider, what gives snap and speed to a boxer isn't so much the attack itself but the recoil after the punch has hit its target. A common problem most people have is focusing on the attack but relaxing and being completely oblivious to the recoil. If your punches lack that snap and feel sluggish this sounds to be the issue. You need to consciously think about engaging your shoulders and delts to pull the punch back with as much "intention" as there was when you threw it. The same applies to sub par pad holders. Sure enough it is annoying as hell when someone hasn't a clue how to hold mitts, especially when they keep their hands (your target) 3 feet apart from one another.... but again this has potential... Everyone loves hitting pads and loves hitting the bag because you KNOW its going to be there when you swing- you can always rely on that "pop." The most important thing IMO is shadow boxing. The greater the discrepancy between your shadow, bag work, and pad work, the greater the difficulty you'll have sparring/fighting. This is because you cant rely on your punches to always make contact. If you cant control your punches (read: your balance) you're going to have a lot of difficulty. A poor padholder can be a blessing in this sense because you have no idea if hes going to get the pads there in time or not! As such don't wait for him but fire that combo out the way you do with the power you do. If it hits great and if it misses it should already be forgotten by the time the following punch is thrown. It becomes a great way to help bridge that gap between shadow boxing and sparring. What you'll then find is that you only have as much practical power as your ability to keep your balance allows- this is why you can see a guy kill the bag in the gym but hit like a pussycat in the ring, and why a seemingly thin or small guy can hit like a mack truck.... Hope this helps...

Sure! But terminology and definitions are quite important no? I mean, if someone calls for a ko uchi gari and you throw an o uchi gari you're not going to end up with the same thing....

See Matsu, this is why I would love to train Karate with you. If I were in Kentucky I would probably try and do that. The ability to admit when you don't know everything. Most of my regular training partners in Judo and Jiujitsu will be the first to direct you somewhere else if you come looking for striking training, even though several of them ARE black belts in Karate/Tae-kwon-do and one of them is a former pro kickboxer. I don't even list Karate among my styles HERE though I have been doing it off and on for 20+ years. The thing is, it's still not my area of expertise. Yet, when I speak to people, in my area anyway, who have maybe 6 months to a year part time training in a grappling discipline they will be happy to tell me all about how they are great at it. Marketing. It's all just marketing. And don't think that the Jiu-jitsu schools are immune to this either. Commercial martial arts schools are simply vulnerable to marketing based ego drives or ego-based marketing drives. If your ever in Kentucky or if I am ever in Oklahoma I'd love to train with you. You can teach me how not to become a pretzel. My problem with that video is that they have never, as far as I know, had a ground fighting element to their art. I train in what I call old school Suidi (Shuri-te) and we do have a small element of ground fighting but it's not what those today would consider ground fighting. It comes from Gou Quan or Dog boxing. It's mainly fighting from the ground with the intent of getting back to our feet which is where I want to be. Its not fighting on the ground and rolling around with someone waiting for them to make a mistake so I can twist them into a pretzel knot. Its used to damage the opponent, create enough space or take them down so you can get up. I have nothing against those arts that recognize they have a weakness and want to learn how to improve it. What I have a problem with is these high ranked instructors passing off basic level skills to their students as if they will be able to contend with a BJJ practitioner in their element. Its irresponsible and dangerous. Make your money selling something that you actually know about. I personally would never want someone to film me fighting a BJJ guy if it went to the ground because they would hear and see things that would be a huge source of embarrassment for me for the rest of my life. I'm not a ground fighter nor do I claim to be. As you said my expertise is on my feet. Why then would I learn a few moves off of a Youtube video or from a class/seminar I took and pass it off to my students to give them false confidence in a game they can not win? This is not the responsible behavior that I would expect from a high ranking teacher of an art. It personally sickens me. I took Judo for a few years (Not a BB) and can tell you that his hold down skills are a joke. That coming from a Yonkyu in Judo (me) commenting on the hold down skills of a grand master (in his art). And believe me when I say that if I think that is a basic knowledge it's less than that because I only have a basic knowledge and can execute better hold down skills than he was. That's truly not saying much about this man's skill because I... well I'm not that good at it. I say stick to what you know and if you want your students to learn how to be effective on the ground create a relationship with a local MMA or BJJ or Jujutsu instructor and have them go their to learn the art and maybe he can send his students to you for striking skills. Don't teach it as if you know what you're doing. As pointed out in another post, just because you wear that belt does not make you that grade in another art. Well that's going to get me into another rant about grades from one art thinking they deserve the same in a different art. I'll stop here or I'll be angrily hitting keys all night and won't be able to sleep. The point is we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. If you wish to make money from your students then do it teaching them something you actually know and give them value for their hard earned money not a pipe dream that will get them twisted into a pretzel knot. So if I may interject- grappling is grappling. Whether one is attempting to disengage or attack it’s all going to be the same. As to what you want to accomplish with it- that’s more appropriately called strategy. Technique would be how the move is done and whether it’s efficient or not. Strategy would be how you apply this technique. In regards to styles and what it means to in “grappling style x” it used to tell you the strategy they’d use. Information is all over the place now, so the lines between styles have become blurred. For example, catch wrestling and ban used to be polar opposites, but nowadays most bjj practitioners are essentially catch wrestlers- mostly because they do not know how to pass the guard

Does it tend to be as big an issue with BJJ as it is with Wrestling? I hear about it all the time with wrestling, but don't know if its the same with BJJ, perhaps with the difference being between the gi and the singlet? That's a very generalize question but I'll answer it best I can. Wrestlers fight with their head and face, using it as an extra appendage when taking someone down. That's the usual reason for the ears. BJJers may or may not encounter that based on which facet of the game they're practicing. My ears got fouled up because I was a young skinny kid and the guy they put every big strong guy against who came in for their first class. Since these guys were new they'd always go straight for a headlock once they were put inside my guard. The constant prying of my head out of headlock positions would start to inflame my ears and my training routine was daily multiple times a day so once they started to get inflamed it was just a countdown more or less. That's my experience but obviously many others will differ. Those that have been training since they were children are unlikely to develop the ears because they tend to have a decent understanding of technique by the time they become adults, which is why the Gracies ears aren't mangled for example.

You know, I really try to be as nice as possible on here (and in person tbh) but I'm a fan of respecting peoples wishes and telling them exactly what I think when asked and I see no reason not to now.... I cant think of an adjective to describe our "master" here that wouldn't be inflammatory and get this post removed so I'll say this: if hes a grandmaster then pay respect where its due and call every BJJ blue belt and judo brown belt Supreme Grand Master or something WHY must TMA's insist on trying to each things they DO NOT know? Whats wrong with him sticking with (presumably) Hapkido? Its not terribly different than Jeff Speakman and his "Kempo 5.0" which is BJJ taught by a white belt. For comparison this guys knowledge of grappling techniques is on par with someone who's been doing bjj for maybe a year- that is to say a solid white belt. Everything was just bad. The striking is whatever- its a Korean style with flying kicks, I'm use to that but he just had to go and "teach" his joint locks and takedowns and "MMA." The problem is he doesn't know enough to be teaching them! This guy is the personification of exactly whats been wrong with martial arts. If you're going to teach BJJ WEAR YOUR BJJ RANK. Since the rebuttal is most likely going to be "this isn't BJJ" I'm going to jump ahead and offer the following: Hes either a white belt wearing a 10 degree black belt teaching BJJ, in other words a fraud "Hes not teaching BJJ, hes teaching Hapkido" or whatever it is- in this case what hes teaching is so bad hes better off not teaching it at all. If a BJJ guy were teaching karate or tkd or anything else with his BJJ belt and rank on I'd be just as critical. So at best hes a grandmaster at being a white belt. At worst hes a fraud. Don't claim to know something you don't and don't try to teach things you do not know how to do.

Ringworm is the same exact strain as is athletes foot just merely somewhere else on the body. This explains why it’s so prevalent. You could keep your mats and equipment clean as possible yet someone with poor hygiene trains and they’ve got some funk on their foot- you could get ringworm. Impetigo is s little more aggressive but also much rarer. Herpes.... god that’s awful. Most bjj competitions do not check for skin conditions despite claims they do or will....

You don't really get it from training as much as you get it because you never stop training to let it heal....if that makes any sense

I care less about what it's called. No other style teaches you to use your hands better. Call it what you will but it knocks "martial artists" out...

That was a faked video that's been around for a long time, often with different titles but wing chun isn't one of them. It was initially labeled as capeiora fights mma. It's a staged video- i don't even think the crowd isnreal Wow you have a good eye TJ-Jitsu but Superman punches are very real. Of course they are, but they're hardly a wing chun innovation. They've been around about as long as kicks have in the UFC. In fact, the more committment to the roundhouse, (or attempted roundhouse) the easier and stronger the superman punch.

Seagal has nothing to do with that kick landed against Couture.... Im quite certain hes done that kick a few hundred thousand times having done karate for the past several decades. Its a standard front kick, and there was no "run" preceeding it.

That was a faked video that's been around for a long time, often with different titles but wing chun isn't one of them. It was initially labeled as capeiora fights mma. It's a staged video- i don't even think the crowd isnreal

That puts the style on a pedestal though- I don't think anyone or anything has earned the right to "not" be critiqued. Its a scientific approach you know? Put something out there and let people tear it this way and that and see if it can stand the tests of others. If you're left with something tangible afterwards, you're probably on to something. All this provided we're all working from the first assumption: We are learning how to fight. If you interest is that, I continue with my regular (and predictable) critique and discussion. If not, then my line of thinking doesn't necessarily apply....

I'll tell you the reason I do this, and its not to be a bully. The problem I have is when someone or some system claim to have knowledge or be able to teach you *how to fight* and they clearly do not. Now, I'm going to be a little broad and generalized here since the topic of "McDojo" came up in other forums so don't think that this is purely an attack on wing chun.... No one should be selling something they don't possess. To do so is a charlatan of the highest degree- bar none. I dealt with this as a child and thank god I didn't have to pay the price so many did in early UFC competitions. I've seen people who appear as if their souls have been crushed because they finally discover that what they're practicing isn't very good at all. I blame their teachers, I blame their dogma, not them. The instructors themselves them struggle for any conceivable string they can grab to say "oh look, this here works!" or "Heres one situation out of 100 that makes this applicable!" and its wrong. If people teaching whatever martial art were a little more upfront some of these could be saved. There is however a large population of people looking for the "magic pill" of martial arts where "style x" doesn't require you to be in good shape because hit x,y, and z and WHAM! Opponent is dead! These are people who cling to dogma like a religion and wont let it go under any circumstances... and usually those who get most offended. If it makes you feel any better I'm equally critical of Gracie Self Defense as well. I feel as if I'm doing them a favor by critiquing them, just as they were willing to critique those before them. I hope one day to have students that critique me and my techniques as well...

Wing Chun, roughly translated from Chinese to English is "Eternal Springtime. Some that practice Wing Chun are doing just that, to retain their youth; this is a part of the connection with Tai Chi and using Yin/Yang principles.Ving Tsun or Wing Chun no matter the spelling, are all pronounced the same; different spelling are how organizations try to differentiate themselves from each other. Wing Chun is a close combat fighting system designed for narrow street application and while on a floating boat, that utilizes the same principles in stand up and ground fighting. The Wing Chun system has anti grappling techniques and many other counter offensive strategies; aimed at staying vertical and mobile similar to Krave Maga; keeping open the option for making an escape on foot; perhaps to find or to introduce a weapon to the situation. As Wing Chun is a martial art system designed for street self defence purposes, for the average working folk (that might smoke cigarettes or over eats with a swelling stomach or very thin with low muscle mass) actually fair enough to say, Wing Chun is a watered down system, that is easy to learn and fight with from day one but not against professionally trained full time individuals in peak fighting spirit and condition. Which is probably why Wing Chun isn't a popular fighting style among elite cage type fighters but is very popular among street wise individuals; as in if the shoe fits, then wear it. Hopefully the reason why Wing Chun doesn't hold up very well in a pit, cage, boxing ring or an octagon, is a little clearer now; as it was never expected or designed to be. Meh, I don't really buy it TBH. Every stand up style has plans of staying vertical and mobile, so that's hardly a niche unique to its own. I would disagree that the goal is to find or introduce a weapon seeing as there are no weapons used... but that brings up an interesting point I'll return to later.... But on to the statement you made about it being "street defense for average folk." This statement also doesn't apply very well and I'll explain why. When you're learning how to fight, we can say you're learning how to move efficiently or technically. Efficiency in movement has to do with your large muscle groups. A boxer throws powerful punches because hes taught how to use his largest muscle groups to throw said punches. The same can be said for grappling styles as well. Sometimes this creates the illusion of athleticism when in fact they are merely doing something smarter, not harder. As such for someone that is NOT in good shape it simply is most beneficial to learn how to optimize and maximize your movement and power. Without this, everything they are relying on is small muscle groups and now they *must* themselves be powerful in order to make it work. Cage fighting and is a recent innovation, and even then its merely a standard of rules and not exactly a standard of fighting. No style has come about "for MMA" since its inception. People spend the same amount of time studying wing chun just as they do any other styles, so I can figure how it can make any logical sense to practice it. By minimizing efficiency and proper striking you're requiring athleticism and strength be maximized for success- which is what more people think the more "MMA styles" do. I mean if we want to meet on a common ground and you want to say "Wing chun is better than nothing at all" I can agree on this point (and I cant say the same for several styles I've seen....) But back to finding a niche. So in my eye the biggest problem is WC is its lack of power in its strikes. It almost seems as if it sacrifices power at the expense of speed, so much so that people like me become heavy critics. So where could it find its niche? I think if you added knives everything they're doing becomes much more applicable. You don't need power with a knife, and you'd indeed be in a situation where "speed kills." All the trap fighting I could see serving a much better purpose because a knife need merely touch you, not be "punched" through you with power. Now I say take this with a grain of salt, because I'm hardly a knife fighter myself....

The first sentence was said in jest towards tempest. As far as calling wing chun wing "chin" or wing "chub" it wasn't intentionally. I was posting from my phone, so you'll have to forgive me for having a little difficultly both reading and dealing with autocorrect. But my vitriol towards wing chun stands. In the days of information, there are no more excuses. Anti-grappling for example is just really really bad. There are styles that have focused on grappling for thousands of years and here they are trying to reinvent the wheel when they need only cross train.

I don't know if these individuals are mentally challenged. They do not appear to be. But one video does not dispel the fact that McDojo's exist. I will ask since you gave one example and challenged us to decide whether this was a McDojo or mentally challenged people, does this mean that every video of a so called instructor or their students that show absolutely minimal skills that do not resemble the grade that they are wearing is mentally challenged? I don't know if you asked this to cast a shadow of doubt on the McDojo issue or what the motivation is. But what I will tell you is this... if a person is wearing a grade well beyond their capabilities and is selling their so called skills to unsuspecting students they are a McDojo. If a world renowned master that truly has the skills of their grade but is selling belts like they are candy but doesn't bother to actually teach them, it's a McDojo. If belts are given for doing your homework and getting good grades or anything else that has nothing to do with the curriculum of the art, it's a McDojo. If the instructor and their students couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag, that's right, McDojo. If the instructor makes excuses why they can't engage in Kumite or constantly refers to their grade certificates as though this is the only proof anyone needs of what they are teaching you, Yep McDojo! So do these examples indicate mentally challenged or McDojo? I'll let you decide. And to be honest, if these are mentally challenged students, I give them props and bow to them. However I doubt very seriously that every video of some phony fraud trying to sell themselves off as the grade they wear to make money from uninformed students is mentally challenged. Frauds, Liars, Snakes in the Grass... Yes, absolutely. This

A hobbyist arguing with a professional A fan arguing with a fighter One who attempts to portray their skill level as being much more than it actually is Of the top of my head

Tempest I won't let you get away with being the only one offending people....😉 So asked honest will get honest replies... We make fun of it... a lot. The most amusing is the anti grappling we tend to see. It's really really bad- I mean really. Now *could* wing chin have some applicable theories for real fighting? I'm sure it could but the biggest problem I see is the lack of resistance training. This is clearly seen with any and all demos where it is expected that technique "a" incapacitated the their opponent, stunned them, or whatever else. Second is a lack of power. Chain punching doesn't develop powerful strikes when compared to say boxing. These are anatomical facts here- the narrow and square stance prevents full utilization of legs and hips for good power. There is a video floating around of a Chinese western boxer sparring a wing chin stylist. Granted this is a study of one but after about 5 seconds he puts his hands down because while fast, it means nothing with no power behind it I've never seen it work-ever. The nail in the coffin was watching two wing chub masters fight. You could tell they've never fought a trained opponent before. For all their deadly strikes it looked like a drunken bar fight. It really needs to adapt live training with more powerful strikes. Maybe then we could see some of its theories being applied.

I think it's quite useless myself. Prearranged stacks never tend to work well. What usually makes people efficient fighters is their ability to adapt their techniques to whichever position. When I get a chance I'll show you what the bjj equivalent is- people who post long strings of techniques that would almost assuredly never happened for what they believe is a good way to train. Keep your training live. There's a reason why fighters are good at fighting...

Well, double jointed doesn't actually exist- its just a term for people who are flexible. Anyways... So heres my two cents on it. Athleticism hinders technical progress rather than helps it. For good reason too. Any reliance on strength, speed, agility, or endurance is reliance on athleticism and less technicality. Many professionals aren't necessarily good in a technical manner but they're moreso merely good at optimizing their athletic prowess. These are usually the guys who wear out after they hit their early 30's. I was one of those guys that was "double jointed" and it wasn't until I got my black belt and reinvented my game that I realized just how much bending in half hindered my progress. The same is true for a guy that's strong. I'll just throw this out there- I recently saw a video of a "guy" explaining how to do a hip escape. Not for nothing, the guy IS very capable and very talented but his technical knowledge of the hip escape wasn't very impressive. In short, he does it like everyone else- hes just such an athlete (and top player) that hes never had to pay the price for NOT having size and strength and being on bottom.... and hes arguably one of the best there is in the game at the moment.

We can file this under interesting observations as well... Most people with "good" guards tend to take pride in how difficult it is to pass said guard. The problem is this only pertains to the sport and not practical purposes. For fighting, virtually no one cares about passing when they're on top- they're just as happy to punch you in the face from any position. The only perk of being impassable is in the sport,where the rules dictate you must pass to score. This tends to develop a defensive mindset for most guard players. It's not wrong per se but it becomes limiting. I blame this mindset for the reason so many sport fighters have a hard time switching to cage fights and being equally effective from their back. On a similar note most sport players are not good initiating from their back. Most subs and sweeps you see occur when the person on top is attempting to pass or open the guard. Once again sport players tend to have difficulty sharing their same success in the cage because whereas they are used to fighting from steps 3,4 and 5 most fights tend to deal with step 1 and step 2. This can also explain how one can be a world champion in the gi, but he very mediocre once punches are thrown and top players aren't trying to open or pass the guard. He may be a black belt world champion at berimbolo but he could also be a white belt novice at scissor sweep.... Food for thought.

This forum has been slow for a month so figured I'd start something... I find it kind of interesting that people will use the term "strong" to sometimes discredit an individuals technical ability. Not always but sometimes. "Strong" is almost seen as a "bad thing" in Jiu Jitsu. "He's just strong" But how amusing -people will refer to flexible guys as somehow being technical. Any flexible guy is "oohhed" and "aahhhed" and he must therefore be technical. What's interesting is that both strong guys and flexible guys are making the same mistake- using athletic abilities to compensate for lack of technical. Bending in half to prevent someone from passing your guard is no different than muscling a guard pass or submission

Meh, not really. Mayweather had even said if it goes the distance, Mac wins by default. He wasn't in it to win rounds, he was in it to knock mac out. He didn't throw punches in the first 3- this was intentional. Mac was also not ahead on the scorecards until the fight was stopped. I find irony in that Mac takes a page out of Ali's book with his smack talk, but got rope-a-doped by Mayweather taking a page out of the same fighters book... Mayweather was never in danger, was never dazed, and was never in danger of losing the fight. Just because it looked close on the cards doesn't really suggest it is because mac never mounted any credible offense. It reminds me of a local tourney about a decade ago when Rhadi Ferguson was competing. He was a quality abu dhabi vet, and the "regular" guys in his division knew this. As such, none of them ever really tried to beat him, they just did their damdest to "not" lose or lose by as little as possible. As a result all of his victories were by points, 2-0 as his opponents just avoided and defended so as to be able to claim "I must be of his caliber, he only won by two points." They ignore the fact that they never once mounted any credible offense. In regards to Mac, I think he did try to mount an offense and did try to KO Mayweather- he just couldn't do it because he cant. He simply cannot be Mayweather in a boxing ring- period.