Beer-monster

Thought so. So has anyone else actually tried a v?

It has been known to happen, but no-ones died that I've heard of yet. Also each attack performs one attack usually (we take em out on that attack). Follows ups come if the first defense is messed up and not recovered in time (more of an object lesson) slightly less than real but you got to give someone at least some chance. Also I forgot to mention that attacker come one at a time. One may follow very quickly after another, but never simultaneously (thats a different exercise), we stress speed and finishes. The aim is to parry, strike, throws and finish before the other man comes and while remaining aware of the other attackers. Other variations of the v include the circle and x.

Isshin ryu You're sensei seems like a wise man.

A more accurate response would be to say that " If he wants to go to the ground and you don't know how to stop him, its gonna hit the deck. And if it does you better know what you're doing." Persnally I fins grabbing the b*ll*cks and twisting works well as a deterrent against ground and pounds and most other things

Kata is a preset routine of techniques performed in an alomst ritualistic style of stances and footwork. They originated as a means of passing down fighting techniques and methods for self defense, but in recent times many meaning and applications (bunkai) have been lost or replaced by bullsh*t. They are also hyped to look pretty for tournaments. Personally I find such things sacrelige . In karate kata are like a zip file for your computer. They were a means of condensing a vast array data about fighting methods and strategies that had been used by their authors in actual fights. They also exist as an easy means of passing down those methods to students so the art can be perpetuated. Some katas have been lost through secrecy. Careful analysis of the principles and applications of kata when using common sense reveals the devestating completeness of karate as they include details of vital point strikes, throws, joint locks and grappling both on and of the floor. However the strikes are emphasised mostly. Unfortunately few people (especially the McDojos out there, have win zip). kata can be found in some form in most traditional martial arts, in Kung Fu they are often called sets or forms and in Korean arts known as Pumse. Hope that helps

That depends on the BJJist and his training methods

thanks.

Oh no, this forum is just inviting a my arts better that your arts speil. But if I were to list my favourite arts, the one i respect most. Muay Thai for the conditioingn and general hardness of its fighters. Aikido for is great throws, locks and energy perspective. Jui-jitsu but Brazilian and traditional for is throws chokes, submissions. Although I find Traditional a little more complete and BJJ more applicable faster. JKD for its philosophy and flexibilty. Ba Qua of its uniques cricular tactics. Karate, when used correctly it is complete, fast and brutally efficient.

Depending on how free my limps are. Grab, twist bite and claw. Gaouge eyes punch with ippon ken to the eyes and temples, jab the throat and claw the windpipe. Seise the balls and twist. All the dirty tactics that karate on the ground is for. Then I would push or yank on his supporting arm while he distacted and roll him over so I'm in the mount, punch him where it hurts and leg it, ot tie him up in a choke or a lock to snap a limb, depending on who his mates are.

Thats not strictly true, although heavily influenced by Chinese arts, (many kata are named after chinese fighters eg wanshu and Karate orignial meant china hand) modern karate is a mix of chinese arts and indiginous okinawan styles. The point of the discussion is not that Karate was influenced by china, that is obvious. But rather the depth of the relation and to what arts it id derived, there are over 1000 recorded styles of Kung Fu, not all of them influenced karate. Also karate and wing chun and vastly different at first glance and take different strategies and ranges and prinviple behind fighhting. That they could be as closely related as Naihanchi indicates is quite amazing I think.

Today while practising the well known Naihanchi kata, I was astounded by the similarities to wing chun. Although wider and lower the Naihanchi stance was similar to the triangular based Yee Gee Kim Yuen Ma, and used the triangle shape to generate power. The application of the knife hand blow was similar to WC as well, and the whole bunkai of the kata seemed tailored towards the close range combat style of WC. There also seemed to be definite Fuk Sao motions in Tensho kata as well. I know both styles were influenced by Fujian White crane, but I thought Karate was much more distant and more Long Fist based. Any thought or info on this link or am I grabbing at straws. Hopefully this will be a lively thread, as it make the MA world seem a little smaller.

Just a general question about the application of this common kata technique. Is Shoto-uchi an arching strike or a straight one? Gichin Funakoshi in Karate do my way of life desribes it as a straight chop like in kendo, and this would fit with the fact that the carotid arteries, the techniques primary target, are located at the front of the neck not the sides. However in kata the technique is more of a rotational arching slash than a thrusting strike, and this would account for the hip rotation in the movement? Any thoughts, coz I'm confused.

Sometimes simple is best, perhaps I should stick to dai ashi barai, its in Naihanchi after all.

Is that nice looking and nice technique, or pretty but ineffcetive?

sorry that should have been tsuyoshi kosaka

Obviously throws do stand up for street and MMa fighting as I jsut watched Tsuyaka Kanomata pull of a great Uchimata. As for the difference between osoto gari and otoshi. There's not really areap in osoto otoshi, you live the opponent with your hip and the backwards force comes from pushing against their upper bodies. It looks like there's a reap because of the drop into the otoshi position. If you added a high reap it would be osoto garuma. Any help.

In the end it will comes down to which throws have you practised again again, adding strikes and against many attacks. thats what I admire about the aikido i've seen, they learn how to apply each throw against all attacks (more or less). In my style some throws are only ever trained from specific attacks Yama Arashi from a diagonal slash etc. What do you think of osoto otoshi, I was thinking that might be pretty applicable with the right footwork and practise.

I wasn't clear on that. sorry Like the weapons the attacks used against the defender depends on the defenders grade. But by yellow or orange belt the most varieties unarmed attacks have been practised against and defences learnt, with the exception of fancy trained techniques like hook kicks to the head. The attackers can use any attack they wish, as appropriate to grade. The important thing is you dont know what the attackers going to use until he does it, even at a white belt you can have punches,kicks several varieties of grab both front and back and knives to kidneys, groin or face. So even if it is limited to the grade, you still probably wont know whats coming. At high levels (like the black belts I once saw go at it) it downright scary. (real knives and katanas too.)

I thought Randori was free fighting, like sparring or Jiyu, but for throws.

No one ever said they weren't. Ground skills are useful. So do you really think that Karate's originators who developed their art through fighting techniques and experience would not include them? They are included in the kata, Pinan Godan for one, however they just are not empasised as a primary tactic.

Any suggestions on how to feel it, or develop it for Karate use?

Hm must have decribed the wrong throw . Oh well. Yes seoi nage is good, morote is useful from a choke. I use atemi on the entrance to the throw. I dodge the incoming punch with a large step into zenkutsu dachi to the 1/2 o clock position, while blocking upwards with a rear hand age uke and striking with a knifehand to the floating ribs (guaranteed to drive the wind out when gentle, break ribs when hard). Since by arm is already beneath the armpit I just coil it round( grabbing their sleeve at the shoulder) as I turn, and over they go. Lock or strike to finish. But I would like to apply the same (strike,thow finish to other less muscle throws. The above tactic also works for seoi otoshi.)

As a thought, tsuri komi goshi might be a could techniques to use in a standing grapple such a lapel grab or clinch.

V's are a full class exercise for defnse against several attackers or consecutive attacks. The class is arranged into to lines which meet at the ends (a v shape) and the defender faces the apex of the v. The sensei then sends out attackers at whatever pace he feels appropriate (usually just more than you can handle to push you). The attacker can use any attacks they wish, although fancy kicks are frowned upon but not unheard of. The attacks start with unarmed strikes and grabs, then progressing to the plastuse of rubber knives and plastic bottles, then coshes and plastic chains, then bokkens and baseball bats and eventually real knives, swords chains etc. The aims is to make the jitsuka confident and efficient, able to execute techniques under pressure and against multiple attackers (within possible limits), and against a range of attacks. The key is to remain calm(thus learning how to deal with adrenaline), and be swift using good techniques to finsih each attacker swiftly and finally (hopefully not killing anyone although some injuries are bound to happen). That more or less sums it up. Whats the public opinion?

Whats everyones view on then use of Ki energy (breathing techs if you're sceptical) in Karate? Does it have a place, or does it go against the hard as nails approach of Karate? Any know any good Ki exercises for Ki in karate? Just trying to start a good discussion?