Luther unleashed

I'm glad you chimed in. I've seen very few TSD forms (although we do Bassai Dae, also) to offer those up. Thanks for those. * Said for comic effect* Most TKDoan don't think of TSD often because, even your highest ranking folks aren't even black belts. It's funny, the popularity of Tae Kwon Do is insane! I noticed that I write it in a different way than I generally see it as three separate words btw, but I did study the art myself and this is how we wrote it. I'm not sure if it matters too many. I can't tell you how many people I come across no matter what martial art they study, at some point they say they started out studying TKD. Many of them as a kid but nonetheless it's pretty crazy. I have picked up certain traits from my foundation in the art myself I have never gone away, and this has really helped me so I'm not knocking it by any means. As far as TSD forms, if you do Bassai Dae in TKD I'm curious what others you do. That's strange to hear a TKD practitioner practicing Bassai, not because you shouldn't, but because it's just not common to my knowledge. How about "pyung ahn oh dan"? http://youtu.be/Y7Wb3y-1kYk

Ever earned a belt and worn it in class? Sure, well ever notice how dirty it got from being on the mat? The sweat and dirt show your rank more then the color. Some styles use tape to show stripes on their black belts. There is a Tang Soo Do School near me that gives you one black belt until you become 4th dan, which is master level in most Tang Soo Do factions. They use tape on the ends to show their dan stripes for first second and third. Overtime their belts begin to look very raggedy. I do not do that with my belts as we have them embroidered in but I have thought about it. Anyways, it is the same idea as having a dirty color belt in my opinion. It's not the hard work that will magically disappear, it is the visible dirt and sweat marks that show your hard work!

I am offended that there is only a mention of Tae Kwon do in this thread. As a Tang Soo Do guy "primarily anyhow", I'm feeling a bit bullied here haha. Seriously, I could reference some Tae Kwon Do forms as well but where's the fun in that. Tang Soo Do is a korean martial arts as well, less known, less popular indeed, but chuck Norris was very involved in this art as his primary art for a long time, how the heck is it so unheard of? Anyways, as to the topic, Korean forms with less kicks, kichu il,ee,Sam have no kicks in typical Tang Soo Do versions. Also, even at the advanced levels there are really very few kicks. Take a common black belt form "Bassai Dae". A few kicks but not much emphasis on kicking compared to the other techniques. Check it out here: http://youtu.be/2uVXqpas3-0

I'm a little surprised this particular topic didn't get much attention. I suppose I'm curious why? Typically it seems to be that karate In particular is very reliant on kids classes to keep studios up and running. The thriving MMA is all the race in young adults these days, and karate is not as popular. With the kids however, karate really struts it's stuff, with all of the mental aspects and character development. Anyways, tried a few things that my kids seem to enjoy. I used a chair for them to sit on. A partner sat behind them with a focus MIT and the person in the chair had to stand and quickly turn behind them for a spinning outside crescent kick. I did this with the advanced class ages 8 to 12, most students are around 9 or 10 though. Just sharing my success story lol

So I googled it just to see what was common, which I was interested to see if what I was saying was more common or not. Right on the first page after typing in "bow and arrow stance hung gar" this was there. Seems to be almost exact ally what I was taught and how I practice it. Front foot at 45 as I said and thigh parallel to the floor. https://books.google.com/books?id=nZ_-JoukHt4C&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=bow+and+arrow+stance+hung+gar&source=bl&ots=bC4Tc9FzCK&sig=B_ljidH0FSEchH9S7FFWgbx4PXU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XCmYVcuFA4nboAS0go6YDg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=bow%20and%20arrow%20stance%20hung%20gar&f=false

I practice hung gar and practice bo stance! I have never seen it like this but maybe it's accurate to how he was taught. For me it is a horse stance that is MUCH deeper. The front thight is parallel to the floor in Bo stance! Toes are normal, or at a 45 degree angle on lead foot. The angle he was at looks scary for a non-flexable hip. Especially if you were to perform quickly.

Please forgive my novel, but I enjoy some of these topics. I have dabbled in wing chun Kung fu, I practice hung gar Kung fu, and have no experience in any other Kung Fu styles so I can't speak about wushu and things like that. I've seen wushu and it's cool looking but that's all I know. I see some of the same techniques that we use in hung gar but I'm sure it's similar to the way korean styles have some of the same ideas on how to do things. From the standpoint of hung gar, it is very traditional. Hung gar focuses a great deal on stance training, we practice very low stances (as I was taught anyways) for a number of reasons like leg strengthening and so on. Also, there are many very nice applications in hung gar that are actually pretty straight foreword. One thing I always liked about hung gar is poetry. The form "Tiger Crane" has a story that goes with the form that practitioners recite as they perform the form (again, as I was taught)! It's an interesting concept and you'd never see something like that in karate or taekwondo. As far as it's popularity... Along with other Kung fu styles, I feel that I personally enjoy the hard style martial arts better. I think to a. Outsider Kung fu as karate/taekwondo movements and practices all look funny, but Kung fu can get a little "movie like" when you look at it. Kung fu tends to have more accessive movements then karate in my experience as well. The reason I personally favor karate is a preference rather then how accessible it is to me. I would imagine many other Americans may feel the same. We like high fancy kicks and things of this nature. Hung gar Inparticular uses much more hands. Think about it, why do we suppose taekwondo is so popular on the other side of the coin? It has flourished since it became an Olympic sport. Kung fu was rejected as an Olomouc sport from what I researched before because it lacked a clear ranking system and it was more difficult to identify qualified people. They have since become very common in the ranking system just as other martial arts. In Kung fu the practitioner wears a "sash" typically, which is a variation of a belt with colors leading to the black sash (equal to black belt). Not a styles/schools adopted the sashes, but many have. I just think it's a matter of what appeals more to people as to the popularity. I teach hung gar in my tang Soo do program. Not a whole lot, but some. I do it to share As much as I can with students and to expose them to it. Their core will remain tang Soo do (korean karate) but I enjoy sharing what I know so as strange as it may sound, I think it's an openminded mind set that grows from such freestyle training. You never know, students may decide to peruse this more down the road from me exposing them to it, and to me that's me trying to do my part to spread martial arts and help people to find their way within a broad range of styles. Last thing is the direct relation to the UFC! Here is a very important factor with traditional martial arts and sport fighting! Many techniques used In Traditional martial arts are for self defense. They are not used to fight. Some are of course, sparring is more like fighting, but applications to forms, self defense techniques based around things like shirt grabs and defending quickly against an aggressive bullying style, potentially non-skilled situation with drunk/on drug opponents is very different then a professional fighter in front of you with no shirt, no pants, a groin protector and a mouthpiece. The setting of a sport fight (even UFC) is very different then what traditional martial arts aim to teach. The entire class that we may focus on a wrist lock or defensive strike to the groin are a waist for the karate/Kung fu practitioner looking to give it a go in the UFC. More simplistic and direct attacks like direct striking is much more effective in the ring/octagon, and in many cases in a street fight as well. To build on wastlanders point about "pressure tested techniques", I think an average move that was pressure tested is probably more usable in a fight then a really great and simple move that has never had any pressure testing.

I gotcha, some people are just better at certain things bushido, just like I will never do the splits, van damn made it a prerequisite for being allowed to step into his house haha!

I grew up hearing master as a tittle so it's the norm for me. To me, it's strange to have an issue with it. I think it becomes very normal very quickly, I think you should never discount a place because they use titles. You limit where you can train and potentially miss a great place. As stated above me, in other countries this is very normal, open mind makes open doors. In korean martial arts "master" is used very frequently!

I like your points, especially about testing for them being a process! Great post and well writen!

I have never heard of the glow, I'll have to check it out!

Of course. The one thing that seems to be a thin line that needs to be clarified... Is one creating a style with a large mixture of many martial arts? Is one creating what they believe is something new? Is it a blend with a strong foundation like my situation? In my case I have little need to prove it's effectiveness I feel, because it's in large, a well know martial art. It's as effective as it is already. Adding and mixing shouldn't change the core of this fact of weather it is or not. For the people that blend arts it should be effective in a sense but as usual the question remains how effective is taekwondo? Tang Soo do? Karate? Or anything. Effective for what? Self defense, focus, discipline, health?

Your totally right in your thinking that they earned tier rank prior to the test. I teach much like I was taught as a foundation. I was always told that our test was all month long, and the "test" is really more of a day to show your stuff. In martial arts, I think of the test itself much like the "game " if your into a sport like soccer or basketball. It's the day family comes out to see you perform, it's your big day. This is my thinking anyways. Also you know, I'm trying to get some adults in their again, but until then I feel that islts safe to say that the kids, especially depending on age, need to be tested, trained, on a different level, even held to a different standard as adults really. As you said a student who is disrespectful or something is going to fail. For what some of my students may lack in physical ability, most easily make up for in their growth in mental areas such as self awareness, respect, and so on. Especially with the kids these concepts are every bit as important as the proper kick or block. Great insight In your response BTW

Nicely done. The round kick is one of my favorite breaks to do. Here are some breaks from my 4th dan testing. I really botch the spin heel kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYR-mMZxU8 Not pictured was the flying side kick. Cool man! You know, taekwondo practitioners always have real nice kicks, looks good man. In karate (primarily what I do anyways) we focus on kicks maye half the time, I think it shows. So based in the fact that I saw you do the kick I did, is there a way to get your toes out if the way better. As I said we focus on the top of the foot, not ball for roundhouse, and for bouts breaks I always use shin which is more kickboxing really. If you watch my video you'll heare talking about it though, how hard it was off me to hit with the ball without hitting my toes! If I may chip in, a lot of it comes down to angle of the target in relation to you. With ball of the foot you have to be more of a 45 degree angle to the target and make a real point of turning your back foot and then your hip over. Otherwise you can't get the ball of the foot prominent enough. Need to end up in a position where the heel is higher than your toes. Instep kick is at less of an angle and more with the board directly in line with you. Thanks, yeah I pretty much always pivot my foot hard on the floor. I was taught long ago to point my toes straight behind me and point my heel at my target, or it isn't right. Maybe that helped me there on my break? Idk, thanks though, I think I figured the angle I needed well I just felt like my toes were in the way like crazy. With no real training in that kick I just didn't know if it was common to have toes be not flexible lol! Thanks for the insight though, I appreciate it!

Yeah his corner was a bit miffed with her about that. Yeah that was messed up 😜

Nicely done. The round kick is one of my favorite breaks to do. Here are some breaks from my 4th dan testing. I really botch the spin heel kick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYR-mMZxU8 Not pictured was the flying side kick. Cool man! You know, taekwondo practitioners always have real nice kicks, looks good man. In karate (primarily what I do anyways) we focus on kicks maye half the time, I think it shows. So based in the fact that I saw you do the kick I did, is there a way to get your toes out if the way better. As I said we focus on the top of the foot, not ball for roundhouse, and for bouts breaks I always use shin which is more kickboxing really. If you watch my video you'll heare talking about it though, how hard it was off me to hit with the ball without hitting my toes!

We'll submission wrestling is accurate. Nice job! Was that your only fight? Never been much into sport fighting but cool to see guys that really lay it out there like that. Wastlander posted one as well, also cool!

Here's another angle that many who teach will surely understand. I held my third testing last night. I had two students unable to perform under the pressure. One was performing Pyung Ahn Cho Dan, and the other Pyung Ahn Ee Dan. Both couldn't perform and I could have failed them, In fact I was ready to fail my first students. I took a not from my previous instructor and had them step to the side with my assistant instructor , my wife while I continued the testing process with my other 9 students... They perform perfectly. Some may think this was too lenient but I personally get a great deal of children with mental and physical issues. One student from last night may have messed up, but they have improved so much in the small amount of time that I started teaching that it just wouldn't make sense. He has always had a very hard time with sense of direction and he's very stiff. To the average onlooker they may say, that kid shouldn't pass. But, isn't martial arts about personal growth? His amazing growth should be set back because of a small mistake? We know our students better then the average onlooker and in terms of karate, better then their own parents. What looks sloppy to you, may be night and day improvement to me and why would I go by what you see, and not my own intimate knowledge about a particular student? They both earned their rank, they were embarrassed, they understood by the look on my face and the 30 people staring at them that they better work harder. Next testing will reveal weather my decision to pass them pushed them to excel at a higher level, or simply continue on a average path.

Just 20 period. We only have one class for kids that meets twice a week. We have a waiting list several pages long, but we only have three instructors and between work and health reasons, none of them are available for more classes. I'm just a 1st Kyu right now and I've been working with the beginners' group since I was a 4th Kyu. Hopefully in another year or so, I'll be able to help expand our program. Right now we're talking about giving the beginner's group their own class to let them focus a little more (it's distracting having them try to learn the basics while the rest of the kids are sparring or something on the other side of the room). We're also considering a separate class for younger kids as right now we don't take below 3rd grade and a lot of parents of 1st and 2nd graders are asking about it. My thought is with these groups feeding into the regular kids class, we'll also eventually have to split that class into an intermediate and advanced to keep numbers down. That's my dream for the program, at least, and our head kids' instructor also wants to expand but just doesn't have the means right now. I don't know if it'll ever happen. We've been at just the one kids class and one adult class for 30 years now. We'll see, I guess. We'll 20 in one class is plenty! I have four classes but as you suggested wanting to have a beginners and an advanced/intermediate class, I do that as we'll. I have a "tiny tigers" class for ages 4-5 yrs old. I have "lil Ninjas" for ages 6-7 years old. Then the karate program ages 8 to adult, split into 2 classes based on rank. Once they achieve 6th rank(kyu/gup) they move to the advanced class. Not only does it help with numbers to split them but I can better manage the class material and kick it up a notch. So basically I'm saying that this works very well for me, so if you get there I hope you find the same success! I am the only instructor that can run class or testings front to back. My wife is a 1st dan and is a great assistant and helps relief some pressure, I also have 2 of my kids assist as Jr assistant instructors. They can handle groups of 4 pretty well. Most of the time I feel anyways, that you only need one solid instructor to be the rock of the program, as long as you get some help, at least depending on your numbers of course. I hope you get where you want, I love to see people get where I got only 6 months ago, which is realizing my dream. May I ask the style and where your located?

Nobody else has anything to post? We'll I'm always game for putting it out there for others to judge lol, check this out. I have never really done much roundhouse kicking with the ball of my foot. In Tang Soo Do we focus on top of foot, kickboxing we focus on the lower shin, tonight after my students tested I felt frisky and tried a speed break with the ball. It was my youth boards so not the thickest, they are .75 of an inch. Adult boards are 1" for us so what can I say, we were out haha. Man I never realized my toes were lacking the flexibility to move out of the way so much!!! What you guys think? http://youtu.be/zhn3DNOuU7Y

Boy really a lot of great posts I agree with very much, particularly the 2 above mine!

We'll I guess that's the point of federations and what not. They try to establish a standard in which rank becomes a standardized thing, they also focus on style consistency and preservation of course, but from the standpoint of belt testings and standards that is a goal I suppose. Problem is there will always be multiple federations with different standards as well. I don't belong to a federation, I have my own standard in what I'd like to see from my students or any practitioner. I think good karate (or martial arts in general) is about the students reaching for their personal best, and being open to the mental side of things. I think that's what makes a successful grading.

20 students? So do you guys offer multiple classes or is that 20 in one class. I just added another class, I'm at 4. So, 20 is an average of only 5 per class and really not enough make me feel I'm doing some real damage in the teaching department. Also, you know I think I can agree that if they make it to yellow belt (first or second testing for is) that they stay longer. I'm hoping to hit about 60 total. I can handle about 15 per class, more then that and I need more help then I have.

Really good answers so far, but "looking like Bruce lee" takes the cake haha i thought this kind of thread needed some humor in case everyone had the same answers like, was bullied, saw jackie chan, weight loss, etc. (but really, who wouldn't wanna have that kinda physique?) But if you want more of a serious serious answer. I don't know how to describe it. Can I say that maybe it's also the feeling you get when you step on the floor? do you all feel this feeling or is it just me? freshly cleaned dobok/gi. you bow to your grandmaster/sensei. The smell of sweat and training equipment. you do your deep breathing exercises, and it's like you're soaking up all the history from previous martial artists that have walked the same path as you, for hundreds of years. wearing the same uniform, doing the same techniques, the same traditions. passed down, to you, and you will eventually pass it down to the next journeyman. you just zone out, get tunnel vision, and focus on the snap of your uniform at the end of every movement in your hyung/kata. That one hour, where i'm in another world, and everything is alright. that one hour of serenity and bliss, that "feeling" is why I train. Hey, I wasn't knocking the answer. It's was funny. This post was a very down to earth description though, I hear you, the feeling is similar to what I would describe. Nice post!

This is an older post. I'm actually surprised so many threads seem to just stop without updates and what not from the OP! My 2 cents anyways... I think that frequent testings (2-3 months) is much more beneficial. Having the belt system has many problems, like my second degree isn't the same thing as yours and so on, because there's no real standard of what makes a 2nd dan. One of the things I think the belt tests are great for is setting short term goals. By short term I don't mean 1 year apart. I think that frequent testings keep people motivated, and feeling accomplished. It's in our nature to seek out accomplishments and there's nothing wrong with that IMHO. I simply feel that testing once a year is taking these great points of belt testings away from the school/students.