devil dog

Matsumura Shorin Ryu -28 yrs Goju Ryu - 3 yrs Isshin Ryu - 2 yrs Kobudo - 12 yrs

Many. It's not hard to send them packing, you just show them the door and tell them they are no longer welcome in the dojo. I have told students to leave for many reasons however the most frequent reason is being a punk.

Our Vice President spent the week reviewing my classes last week. I was told that he was assessing my students. Last night he informed me that he would be leaving for home but would like to have the last 20 minutes of the advance class to address us. To my surprise he asked me to remove my obi and bring it to him. This made my heart drop thinking that I had done something wrong. He then asked me to stand before the class and presented me with a new obi and my Rokudan certificate. Pretty out of the normal as we do not usually give meritorious promotions until Hachidan. It was pretty great getting promoted in front of my senior students. Pretty happy right now. Still on cloud nine.

No I do not think my sensei was replaceable, however I believe he wanted me to feel that way. I'll explain... his perspective was that at some point all of his students would advance to the point that they would be able to replace him. He would always tell us that some day he would have the honor of reciting Hohan Sokens Death Poem to us and his life's work would be imagined. I believe if you are a honest and humble teacher that only wants the best for your students, you at some point want your students to become better than you and cease to depend on you. Before Sensei retired he read the death poem to a select group of us and was very happy that he was finally able to do so. To those of you unfamiliar with the poem it's not about death but about passing on your knowledge to the next generation. The student becomes the teacher if you will. I think that our teachers are un-replaceable in terms of finding another teacher (unless they are unworthy to begin with) but at some point I believe our teachers want us to replace them. I believe if you are true to the foundation of the student/instructor relationship your goal is to see your students out grow and reach beyond your teachings. At least this is what my Sensei taught me. More or less like a parent wanting more for a child than they had.

First and foremost you do not need to be training with your Sensei to have your rank recognized. If you have your rank certificates and can show the new school you are at that level on the mat and have the knowledge they will place you at that rank regardless if you were still training with him or not. You are describing what I have seen a few times in my journey. A more than qualified instructor turns complacent after achieving his goals and no longer trains, strives for excellence nor requires their students to strive for excellence. Since he no longer holds himself at a high standard he no longer holds his students at a high standard. Bottom line... you are going no where with this instructor. You have two choices. Leave or talk to him honestly and discuss your issues. If what you say is true, that you are his oldest student, then he should take what you say to heart as long as its constructive. If he does not then leave and find a qualified instructor. A sub par instructor produces sub par students. Train on your own if there are no other clubs. This is probably part and parcel why he has become complacent. There is no competition. I would find out where he trains and go there or just wait until you move to the bigger town and search for a dojo there. However do not be surprised if you do not retain your rank. Not that it would have anything to do with you, but if what you are saying is true, the teachings and requirements of the new school may exceed that of your Sensei's. If this is the case their expectations will more than likely be higher and thus score you at a lower grade. This is not a bad thing. You will be able to train with and learn from competent instructors and thus become a better martial artist. Rank is not everything. In fact rank means very little without the knowledge and skill to back it up. Your only as good as the instruction you receive. Search for the best instruction and you'll be on your way to becoming a better martial artist.

I pray you have a fast recovery. I'm glad to hear you will continue here on the forum. Best of luck and keep fighting the good fight.

Solid post. I do not agree with auto grading and believe that rank should be earned. But do agree that it hurts no one except the student thats been bumped in rank. This is however the problem I have with this concept. As an instructor its contrary to my instincts to help a student acheive his/ her best.

I am a big proponent of knowing ones history and traditions. We teach our students the history, terminology, rank and title structure, etc. We require our Ikkyu testing for Shodan to write an essay on one of 10 different topics. The one most picked is a detailed history of the art including complete lineage. It's hard to truly understand ones art if you do not know the history of it. I would encourage you to ask your Sensei to start a academic portion and create a complete syllabus of techniques, terminology, rank structure and the history. A good foundation in ones art is a must.

It would be a toss up between three of my favorite katas, Matsumura Rohai, Kusanku, or Hakutsuru.

Tode, I can help you with a few of the kata but not all. We are taught that Pinan Shodan and Nidan where created by Matsumura. This is because his grandson only studied with him and taught both of these kata's. Others say that Itosu invented all 5 Pinan or Heian kata. The origins are Okinawan. Matsumura learned and taught one Naihanchi kata (tekki) and it is believed that Itosu created the other two from this kata. It comes from Chinese origins. Some believe that Passai was created by Matsumura but others say it predates him. Kusanku (Kanku dai and sho) was created by Sakugawa to honor Kusanku (his teacher). Chinto was created by Matsumura to honor Chinto. Seisan (Hangetsu) is of Chinese origins. Jitte or Jutte predates Matsumura and some believe that Ji'in and Jion where created from Jitte. Of Chinese origins. Gojushiho - predates Matsumura and was of Chinese origins. Rohai (Meikyo) was created by Matsumura. Sorry I can not help you with the rest. Good luck in your studies.

Harkon72, IMHO this is very short sighted and I believe you are missing out. My Sensei before he retired this year was still teaching at the ripe old age of 84. He couldn't kick you in the face anymore but could at a younger age. The age however is not the point. The point is if you only learn from instructors that can jump over your head your going to be learning from young low to medium ranked individuals. Of course their are exceptions to this but most individuals, myself included, slow down as we age. This does not mean our minds went blank. And as far as being counsel, I strongly disagree. My Sensei could not only help you with your technique but also instruct. Yes he may not move like he did at the age of 20, 30 or 40 but with age comes wisdom. You can no longer perform certain techniques but who cares? If you can, and your aged Sensei can show you how to make it better, aren't you better off. As far as I'm concerned age does not mean that you need to hang up the belt. I can guarantee that if you walked out on me I would let you and feel pity for the opportunity you lost out on because of a preconceived notion that age some how makes you less of a teacher. Personally I have found as I age I have become a better fighter and more knowledgeable fighter than when I was younger. You begin to find out that all the high flying, super athletic stuff is great for kids but absolutely not needed to defend yourself and in fact in most cases it's detrimental. I hope you re-evaluate your position. You are reducing yourself to a limited knowledge pool if you take out those that are up in age, a little overweight or have a disability that keeps them from doing the things that you feel make the perfect instructor. Knowledge doesn't come from athletic skill. It comes from time which means... older in age. And I hope for your sake you never age. You may say "I'll be going strong when I'm that age" or "I would be embarrassed if I looked like that" but I have news for you, life tends to sneak up on you when you least expect it and things that may be out of your control can and will happen. If that means someone should put you on a shelf and you no longer have worth, then I feel sorry for you when you get up in years. My guess is when you do get up in years you'll discover what most of us have. Age is not a limitation and it doesn't make you less of an instructor. It makes you better because you have years of experience and knowledge that your students wont have for years to come. How do they gain it? By learning from us old experienced guys. Good luck!

I have seen this all too often. I have had students work hard to achieve their Shodan and then a year later loose. To Sensei8's point I think most instructors or at least myself and the ones I know tell their students that Shodan is just another rank in the long path to mastery. However I believe the general public has the perception that Shodan is the end all to everything. I think you can say it every day and some students, with their preconceived notions, think that Shodan is the end. I have had long discussions with these students and have discovered a constant. Most students that quit after Shodan had a goal to achieve that rank and never looked past it. The other is they tend to make time for it during their pursuit for their Shodan and after achieving it they find that other things are more important. Welcome to life! The goal should be self mastery, a never ending pursuit of betterment. However these individuals do not look at things that way and it really doesn't matter what I say or what the board of instructors implements. That's their goal and once achieved they are mentally done and there is little you can do to change that mind set. Most students do not have this mind set thankfully. The ones that leave after gaining their Shodan is maybe 2% compared to those that continue. I personally do not see a problem with it. I would rather have one dedicated student than 100 that couldn't care to be in class or would rather be doing something else. I say God Bless and farewell.

Your organization should be able to supply these. Are you new to instructing or have you just opened your own school? Typically the organization either supplies these at a fee or tells you where to purchase them so I am confused why your on you own so to speak looking for a supplier. The supplier should be well established. Just contact you sensei or organization.

I look at it like this. As a Sempai you are looked at much more closely than the two white belts you were playing with due to your rank and age. As a parent she probably is not accustomed to this type of messing around and could have percieved this differently than you or I would. It's a parents instinct to step in when they feel that a child is in danger of getting hurt whether it is her kid or not. I doubt she meant the disrespect that you picked up on but rather giving you a little reminder to take it easy. As a senior in your dojo you must also remember that you are the example and new students and their parents will judge your school based on the way you handle yourself. I get where you are coming from but may not have handled it in the best way. Personally that question does not show humility but ego. As far as your bag is concerned - I agree that she was in the wrong. No disrespect towards you, I wasn't there and do not know the tone or context that this lady approached you with. This is just my immediate thoughts on the situation based on the way you posted it.

Thats an interesting insight. I have not thought of it this way but tend to agree that if you do not have the students respect they will not pay as close attention. I will have to pay closer attention to this in the future. I can think of only one student but after reading this I believe you hit the nail on the head and have answered why it was so hard to get through to him. Great observation.

I tend to agree with you. The student only knows what is in their mind but looking back on my early days I respected my Sensei because of the rank and position at first and after getting to know him I started respecting him for who he was, for his knowledge and for how he treated me. At some point I no longer saw the rank or position but rather saw him for the man he was. To this day I still respect him and consider him a second father in some respects. Maybe this is the normal progression since we have to get to know an individual before giving them our respect.

I was talking to our chairman last night on a phone conversation based on a different topic when he said he was asking instructors if they feel like their students respected them. He said that 100% of them said that they did. He then asked them if the respect was earned or if it came with the position and rank. He said that instead of an immediate responce most were after a brief hesitation. I thought about this along time and I believe that I have earned their respect through my actions but can't help wondering if it has more than a little to do with my rank and position as well. I try to treat everyone with respect and believe I treat them the way I ask them to treat me but I do get his point. The rank and position is a factor if I'm totally honest about it. So I will pose the same question here. Do you think your students respect you because you have earned their respect or is it automatic because of your rank and position? And I'll go one further and ask if the respect is mutual. Do you show your students the same respect in daily dealings with them? Thought it was interestingly put and thought I would share it with you all. Opinions?

Here in lies the problem. Students, especially new students often do not figure it out until they have a few years of their lives and lots of money wasted chasing what turns out to be a mere lie. However in most cases students that answer these types of ads are not the types that would come into our schools. There is a reason these scams are successful. There are students that want the fast food instant rank without the effort and don't really care if it's legit or not as long as they get there fast.

Unfortunately I have heard the same stories. As a Marine I would hope that brothers in arms would have more integrity than this but I have heard this same thing from my old instructor.

Can you say McDojo? It never ceases to amaze me that what takes most of us the better part of our lives to achieve can be gotten online, at home study course or just by paying the money required. Scam doesn't even begin to cover this.

I agree with you to some degree. However we have all seen the Yondan that displays the skill level of a Sankyu. Do we chock this up as "thats the requirements with in their system"? Maybe. But what does that say about their system? I believe that those that brought the arts to this country had a higher standard imposed upon them than what is expected of students today. I believe the fast food generation and greed have a lot to do with lowered expectations. The training I recieved as a child was brutal compared to what we see today. You actually couldn't imagine testing for Shodan after seeing what was required. Now obviously what wass acceptable then is not necessarily what is acceptable today. However expectations IMHO have changed as well. It took on average 5 to 7 years to reach Shodan. Now its 3 in most arts. How did that change? Well we added grades and changed curriculum some might say. Thats fine and I accept that. However did the standards for Shodan change as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but Shodan used to have a very high standard to achieve and publics perception of what a black belt was. And back then for good reason. A Shodan could handle themselves and were for all intensive purposes bad dudes. Can we say that about all BB's today? I would say no. And I am sorry to say that I have seen my fair share that have come through my doors claiming to be a BB and with credentials to boot and they did not measure up. I am sure that some of my students would not measure up to say a hard core Kyukushin club. However there should be a minimum standard for BB and that standard should be that they can protect themselves and fight more than with just a little bit of proficiency. Most organizations put their reputations on how many BB's they have and the public puts a high degree of trust that they must be a good school because of this. Personally I would rather have 40 Gokyu's that are at the same level as thier Shodan are. I would rather someone come into my school and look at the Mudansha ranks and say "wow they are good, I wouldn't want to mess with them" and look at my Yudansha and say "I'll never get to that level, they are great". That to me is how the old perseption of what it means to be a black belt is maintained and our standards as a whole are maintained. I personally believe that it starts to degrade from the top. If the highest of instructors expectations lower then the instructors under their direction start to lower theirs as well and students that shouldn't even be testing for Sankyu get to test and pass their Shodan test. Does this effect me? No. Does it effect the perception of the arts as a whole? I think so. I have heard more times than I care to mention from people that "Karate is ok but it's not MMA". This agbravates me becuase Karate is the original MMA or cross training art. The founders trained with who ever and in what ever art they thought had valid techniques and incorporated them into what we know today. They say this because the perception of what it means to be a BB has been lowered due to these instructors that promote students that should not be promoted. It does effect the arts as we know it and is whether my art or your art or the way we teach maintains the integrity of what used to be the standard or not. One bad apple so the expression goes. I understand we all have different requirements. I may require this kata for this rank and you may require another. That is not the point. The point is no matter what organization, school or teacher the minimum standards of what we had to live up to when we first started have changed. And I blame the organizations that have allowed this to compensate for higher attendance or just plain greed. Sensei8, I have come to respect your opinion and enjoy reading your wisdom but on this one I only agree with half of your point of view. No disrespect, just my opinion on the state of the arts today. I have seen it with my own eyes and although it does not effect me directly it does effect the perceptions of the art I love and have devoted my life too. So I guess it's a sore and personal subject for me. I don't believe in a universal art that is governed by a universal organization but I do believe that some standards should be held sacred or our art will suffer for it and already is. In fact I believe the larger the organization the lower the standards become in most cases. Just my 2 cents aand my heavily winded point of view.

Spot on. Those that claim to be true traditionalists that think the arts are unchanging do not know their history. It was quite exceptable to look outside your art to find different teacher to learn techniques and was even encouraged. Name the old school masters besides Nabe Matsumura that only had one teacher. It was common place to seek out as many teachers as possible to create their version of the art. If it wasn't why aren't all Shuri Te derived systems teaching Matsumura Shorin Ryu or just plain Shuri Te instead of Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Matsubayashi Ryu, Kobayashi Ryu, etc. Its because each of the founders of these arts took what they learned and created their version of the art. What you are doing is traditional in the most traditional sense of the word. You are incorporating what you have learned into the art for the purpose of benifiting your students with what you have learned. I will say that he maybe right in one aspect. If you are changing the core and replacing it with what you have learned outside of the art then you would have a hard time calling it Shorin Ryu. You are in a sense creating something new. And if he thinks Shorin Ryu does not contain grappling tell him to study his kata a little more. They are chock full of throws and submissions.

Wow, very insightful thoughts. Unfortunately this is not uncommon. I have seen teachers that have no business teaching and students that should be demoted back 4 grades or more due to their lack of skill and knowledge. I believe the problem lies squarely on the instructors shoulders and the organizations shoulders. I do not understand how students can be promoted to Shodan if they can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The organizations that promoted the instructor that allows his expectations to be as low as they are, are the real culprits. There are no checks and balances. In fact some of these same instructors do not deserve their grade. Often times expectations of others are a reflection of the instructors own skills. If the instructors skills are subpar then their expectations of their students will follow suite unless it's a McDojo, which I assume we are not talking about. If you look at the students teacher I would be willing to bet that their skills would not measure up to your expectations of their rank either. I have had new students from other schools walk in and tell me they are this rank or that and after testing them I do not think less of them for their subpar skill or knowledge, I think less of their instructor and the organization that allowed the instructor to have lower standards. If we are talking McDojo's then that is a whole lower level in my book. Belts and titles for money! Shameful to say the least.

congrats!

Our instructors are paid but it is not much. Most of us do it for free because we love what we are doing and have full time jobs. Most only charge their students enough to maintain the schools and pay their instructors, what amounts to their dues and what they would pay for instruction. Most opt to just barter as you said. Free classes and no dues intern for instructing classes. Now the head instructors of some of our schools do charge more than others and pay their instructors more but most only charge enough to keep the school operational. I have never had any of my instructors come to me to ask for a raise because they know that I am not charging even close to half of what the big chain dojo's charge their students. It's kind of a toss up. Pay the instructors more and charge more or charge less and pay them less. It's pretty simple math really. I personally do not take money for my instruction and instead put it right back into my schools in the form of equipment and such. I work full time and if I wasn't running my schools I'd be teaching in my back yard every night for free because I love what I am doing. For me it's not about the money. It's about passing on the art to worthy students. Having said that I am not opposed to those that do it full time and make their living off of teaching or being compensated for their time, especially if they are teaching for the head instructor. In fact it's great that they are able to do that. I'd rather keep my students, which for the most part could not afford what the big chains charge and some can barely afford to pay what I charge them.