CredoTe

You did the right thing, and it sounds like you're off to a great new start!

Absolutely... To keep the journey going; to gain wisdom in the journey; when inevitable forks in the paths come my way, to have enough wisdom to know when to turn down a fork or pass on by and keep going...

Japanese jujutsu/judo Iaido Ancient/medieval Western martial art of some kind - I just thought it would be interesting to learn the martial way of the Roman Legionnaire, or Greek Hoplite, or Italian/English Longsword, etc...

Yes, great read, great responses from everyone...

Solid post!! The use of "karate" for every MA, imho, falls into allowing, thus satisfying the masses. Karate is Karate. TKD is TKD. Boxing is boxing. Wrestling is wrestling. BJJ is BJJ. Judo is judo. And so on and so forth, imho!! Sure I think it's wrong to label boxing, wrestling or BJJ under the Karate label as they are fundamentally different and are not a descendant. (Doubt most of these guys would want to use that name anyway). But taking Korean Karate/Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do/Kong Soo Do, ultimately it's just tweaked (Shotokan) Karate and can technically claim lineage back to Funakoshi and ultimately Shuri-Te/Naha-Te. What disqualifies it from adopting the "Karate brand"? Simply location? As I said in my earlier post, Tang Soo Do and Kong Soo Do are really just the Korean pronunciations of Karate-Do. Would it be ok to use these terms? Personally I choose not to call TKD Karate but I think you can argue some schools can claim to teach (Korean) Karate, especially those that remain close to the original Kwan teachings. If location is a factor, does Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate qualify for the Karate name tag? It wasn't developed in Japan or Okinawa. While Funakoshi certainly trained in Tote/Tudi from Azato and Itosu, the core concepts of Tudi were not truly passed on; it's really difficult to instruct a massive amount of students (kids in grade school), in a large scale format, in these concepts. They simply take too much time for so many to learn all at once. Imperial Japan was gearing up for war at the time, and needed as many militarized school kids/teens as possible. Sure, there are exceptions... Shotokan's lineage can be traced back to Shuri-te/Naha-te for sure, but, no offense, there's a reason Shotokan doesn't look or move like Shorin-Ryu (this is not a style vs. style which is better comparison). Yes, Shotokan "shares" kata with Shorin-Ryu, but the stances are different, concepts of movement are different, etc. At it's tiniest core, this issue does go back to words. Words mean things; when the meaning is lost, not passed on, or ignored, then the core concepts start to degenerate, unravel. Case in point: Tang/Kong Soo Do are Korean pronunciations of the Japanese word "Karate-Do" - doesn't mean it's actually Karate in truth, in practice. It's not all the Koreans' fault, either... It goes back to Funakoshi and his peers at the time they were introducing Tudi to mainland Japan. Again, words mean things. The Ryukyuan "Tuudi/Tudi/Toudi" was translated as "Tote" in Japan. In fear of Japanese backlash, Funakoshi and his peers decided to further sift the translation from "Tote" to "Karate" to hide the Chinese influence. What we have are tracks covering tracks covering translation errors... See, that little part at the end, "te", was a misinterpretation... As we know, "te" means "hand"; thus, "Tote" means "Tang Hand" or "China Hand", and "Karate" means "empty hand". The problem is, the "di" from "Tuudi/Tudi/Toudi" doesn't mean "hand". "di" is "Ti"; "Ti" does not mean "hand". The Japanese just thought it did. "Ah, Ti? What is this 'Ti'? This Tudi? Oh! Ti must be like 'te'! 'Tote!' OK! Got it!" Right from the start, the core concepts were unraveled, before they even made it to Korea. See, "Ti" is derived from the Ryukyuan tchi, and means "wisdom". Someone who held the knowledge of Ti was known as a tchikaya. Whether tchi was transmitted from master to apprentice is another matter (either as "Ti" or "Tudi"). Some masters were better than others at transmitting / passing tchi on to their apprentices (students). Discussion over who these masters were is subject for a different thread/topic . You're right in that it's hard to say who is or isn't "karate". The defining characteristic is that words mean things (sorry to sound like a broken record ), and words' meanings are derived from their heritage. When the meaning of a word is spread out to include as wide as possible a definition, it loses its meaning and core concepts. I would say that what most people do isn't true "karate". Even myself; the only reason I say I'm a "karateka" is because my style's lineage/ancestry can be traced directly to Okinawa and Tudi, and that my karate ancestors DID pass on the Tudi/Ti/tchi.

For our dojo, students must have at least one year time in grade as a 1st kyu to be eligible to test for shodan. It's not automatic eligibility, either. They have to do all the things you mention in your OP; leading class, helping students, taking on more responsibilities with the dojo (cleaning up, being available for coverage/backup, etc). This is based not only on the requirements of being a shodan, but also because a student's fees halt once s/he reaches shodan. In return, s/he must step up, accept more responsibilities to our dojo, and be a leader/instructor.

Yes, our age categories are "kids" (4-8yo), "youth" (9-15yo), and "adult" (16+). One of our full families is spread across all three age groups, and the other across the youth and adult classes. Our brother/sister family is in the youth class. Absolutely. So, if my OP gave the intent that an entire immediate family attended the same class, I deeply apologize for that. No, I took it as families that just attend the dojo together. No worries...

Is that anywhere close to whapperjawedsquillion?

Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu) (infused with Onaga no Ti)

Maybe where you live. Of the approx. 75 "kung fu" schools in my area there are about 4 that are genuine. I've yet to meet anyone who knows correct Seven Star Praying Mantis in person. Most people you can tell they learned from a book and you can usually figure out the book in question. In my experience it's exactly the opposite. It is so unknown and has largely been replaced by MMA/BJJ, etc. that it is almost completely secret again. I've seen some legit Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar guys around here, and what they know is definitely not in the mainstream. And among those in my area who practice authentic Chinese boxing, none of them hate it. YMMV. There's one guy in my area of Ohio that instructs legit Siu Lum Hung Ga Kuen... One of his top students was my Hung Gar instructor... I think he might be the only real Kung Fu / Taiji instructor in my area, period. IMHO, the others are all the "book" type that you mentioned...lol

Great story about your Soke and Kaicho, Bob

Yes, our age categories are "kids" (4-8yo), "youth" (9-15yo), and "adult" (16+). One of our full families is spread across all three age groups, and the other across the youth and adult classes. Our brother/sister family is in the youth class.

Nope. Too much to live for right here on good ol' Earth...

As my path has split from my original lineage, I have a few lineage lists. Because I practice Matsubayashi-Ryu, rather than list the entire lineage back to Tode Sakugawa and others, I stop at Shoshin Nagamine, with his lineage implied. My Former Karate Lineage: Shoshin Nagamine Ansei Ueshiro Gary Tiktin My CI's Instructor My CI Me My Current Karate Lineage: Shoshin Nagamine Takayoshi Nagamine Steve Trombley My CI Me

Regrets are (unfortunately) inevitable. To err is human and all that. The trick is identifying those regrets and moving forward. Eventually they become motivations and obstacles to overcome. As an IT nerd, the best one I heard goes like this: "To err is human; to really foul up requires a computer!!!"

Running class one Saturday, I was absolutely ragged from a harsh week at work plus baby keeping us up during the night. Well, during class this particular Saturday, I attempted to demonstrate a bunkai/oyo on my uke and got blasted in the face... We all had a good laugh about it... I told them, "No, that's how you don't do it..." They all understood; most had even commented on how exhausted I looked before class started...

As for "told you so", like Bob mentioned, there's no need, no purpose. You have strength and courage of your convictions, of the methods that you believe in, make sense to you, and work for you. Much of what you say about modern training methods makes sense, but for a traditional guy like me, there's also room for kata because the way we train our kata also makes sense. IMHO, the best meld of modern/traditional is taking the proper wisdom of kata and putting it in modern pressure training drills/scenarios. If the traditional kata waza/bunkai/oyo have wisdom, they will stand the pressure. If not, they won't...

The "seizing initiative" concepts are not unique to Shotokan, either (I don't think you are implying that). Indeed, as part of our Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu) / Ti training, we go through go no sen, sen no sen, and sen sen no sen (all combined with tenshin training, of course.) My instructor uses the Japanese terms, rather than Ryukyuan/Hogan, more because of prevalence than anything else. Do you suppose he had bad dreams of Choki Motobu coming into his dojo and wrecking the place..? Absolutely... If someone enters my house intent on harming my family, I will do everything in my power to protect my family. In this scenario, my "karate-do" starts off as "gun-do" and hopefully doesn't need to go any further...

Absolutely... Great response...

We have 2 full families and 1 all-siblings (all the kids but not parents) family as part of our dojo. At first, each family ranked together. But, after a few testing cycles and skill development differences, there is a rank or two separating each of them. The highest ranking student between all 3 families is a 6th kyu. All the families still train together with us, so we'll see how it goes in the future!

Very few people are able to see their own failings. At least you have that quality which will serve you well. I think every martial artists has some regrets from wasting time at schools that weren't as useful as ones they found later. Putting important emphasis on aspects of the martial arts they would later not value as much. And of course long breaks in training. The important thing is "being a martial artist" is because of someplace you go or something you pay for. It is what you are, it is what you do. I can't imagine myself ever not training. Absolutely Great post... For me, a regret that I have is that, once I joined my current CI some 15+ years ago, I quickly became very near sighted. Meaning, once I got used to the way he did things and trained, compounded with the fact that I've used it on the street, I determined that there was no other way to do things. Ultimately, this hurt my MA journey in many ways. For instance, I believe I would have found my current path of following Osensei Nagamine's Matsubayashi-Ryu, rather than another organization's version of "Matsubayashi-Ryu", much sooner had I not been so close-minded. This isn't a shot at my CI, rather, realization that I was foolish to put anyone or anything (i.e. techniques, training, etc) on a pedestal of perfection. What my CI does is good, but there are many other ways out there that can make us (anyone) even better.

Congrats! Right on right on right on....

Which koryu arts do your kata come from, if I may ask?

Do you mean to say that all Karate practiced currently is a hybrid of Shuri-te and Naha-te together, or that all Karate practiced currently is either a hybrid descendant of Shuri-te or a hybrid descendant of Naha-te? Two different interpretations of your statement...

Welcome to KF! Thank you for making us a part of your journey!