delta1

Oh, never mind!

Get a dummy gun or a can of inert training pepper spray. Put it where you would normally carry it. Have a friend charge you with the intent of hurting, but not dammaging you. Have him keep doing this, but backing up a few feet each time. Heck, let him start at ten feet (about 9 ft farther out than the average attack is launched from) and try to deploy and use your weapon. You know it is comeing, but you can't move until he does. Then, just fer yucks, try it where he doesn't move until you do. Now, come back here and answer your own question for us, and I'll share with you some other reasons for taking a martial art as a self defense method. And I'll say again, as many times as necessary, any weapon you carry- especially firearms- should be aproached and trained as a martial art. It's no cheaper, no easier, and no more effective than how you train it.

Hudson, what kind of martial art do you practice, and what is your level? If you are new, I wouldn't worry too much on the details DM and me are talking about. You'll get them later on. For now, just take them as information on why it is important to learn your basics well.

Very true. Even when changing stance in place, as opposed to moving forward in your example, you can do a lot of different things. For example, done as a reverse lunge or kneel your primary purpose might be to get out of the way of his attack or his reaction to your attack. It might also clear a path for your attack, say a hammerfist to the groin and/or a heel scoop. Or it may primarily be done to drop your height so that a hammerfist or forearm strike can rise up into the groin. This is also an excellent stance to use to regain your base should your opponent get you bent over. Possibilities are endless, and how you use the stance depends on what you want to do. Main point is, like you said, the stance is transitional. Don't get stuck in a pose, unless BB Mag is there with a photographer (there's an exception to every rule, right?).

Beat me to it! Stances can also be used to move in place, changing structural allignment and/or adding power to a technique. The stance described is also similar to a lunge stance or a close kneel. The lunge brings the trailing hand into major play, giving allignment, torque and engaging the mass very quickly. The kneel drops your height while allowing you to maintain posture, and adds a lot of gravitational advantage to your technique. Stances may be used as weapons as well. This stance could be used as a knee drop on a downed, or partially downed opponent. Or it would work as an outside leg buckle or break. All are purely transitional. You wouldn't pose there any more than youd leave a strike hanging in mid air.

Way to go, Ramy! I enjoy your insights. Keep it up!

Both! The good old groin kick is one fairly common opener when the guy doesn't expect it. Kicks to the shins or knees. Kicks and stomps to downed opponents. Mostly the football/ field goal variety, but they hurt when they connect. Boxing and kickboxing trained as a barehanded art should be an effective combination, though I don't have a lot of experience with either of them. But you might still want to think about adding some escapes and defenses for stand up grappling, and ground work if possible. Also, weapons might be a good thing to round out a street carriculum.

Hey, Lucky, I'll look forward to that! But don't get in too much of a hurry. I just worked a little (light work, at least for him!) with someone who does that. He told me about a friend who went pro too soon. Guy only had three ameture fights under him. He got destroyed. They let him go back to amature status, but he said they don't allways. Any way, keep us posted. We'll be rootin for you! As an aside, you'll be happy to know that I have perfected the tap ! Great defensive move. I really like it!

Costner has to be one of the worst actors. The only film I liked with him in it was 'The Bodyguard'. Don't know how he pulled that of. Probably I was looking more at 'Racheal Merrit's', uh, songs. The new Harry Potter film has to be one of the biggest dissapointments I've seen recently. But, the really bad ones I don't remember. I tend to walk out on them and forget them. I did sit through 'The Whole Ten Yards' yesterday, and I can't for the life of me figure out why I did it.

I like your sense of humor!!! Yes, I just did a weapons disarm class where, by the end of it all, me and my partner were both bleeding quite a bit. I had on my good ghi, too! Of course, the day before I was wearing my old plain ghi and nothing happened. But it washed out. I just hope neither of us gave the other some form of incureable deadly new virus or something. Then, someone asked about a disarm from a typical hold, where the gun is at your head and he has your back pulled tight to his chest. I really tried to smash the gun back and down, instead of into his face. Really, I swear I did! But he was a good sport about it. Besides, I had his gun- what else could he do? Ahh, it's all in fun! Edit: just reread that. I should probably point out that I was not the instructor, but there was a period afterwards that we all sort of shared our experience and ideas. I showed them mine for that particular situation, and everyone liked it (except maybe my partner- never got a real commitment from him ).

A-Hem. I would never admit to having the same problem, but I do like to get into things a little more than most. One thing that worked for me (until my partner took off again) was to find someone that likes to train as hard and get as much into it as you. Train and work together in class, and make a pact to shut up and learn there. Then take it outside class and really rip things apart and put them back together. You can help keep each other in check. Sort of a 'Know It Alls Unanimouse'... I mean 'Annonymouse' ( little Freudian slip there... ).

And they say I'm a radical! DM, here's an idea- Hire Ninjas! Now it's back up to 52% for "limmited" regulation. Time to duck back into my hole and plan more subversive activities, like training on my own with a few non conformist unregulated type ( ! )'s.

Take the mill, retire and become a martial arts bum! Besides, I saw Apollo XIII. You could get hurt going to the moon!

Hey, DM, thanks for the history lesson! Pretty interesting. Not sure how that would work here, though. We'd probably make a lot of lawyers happy with that system. CD and aefi are probably right about that being the result of regulation as well. Maybe we could kick in a few law office doors as an alternative course of action? Just a thought.

All right! 52% against! I feel like a groundhog- I can stick my head out and see if the improvement is a trend, or if I'm gonna have t' duck back down and take cover!

I grew up in the sticks in Texas and New Mexico. Kicks were as common as cowboy boots. I've worked in construction and maintenance most of my life. When you wear steel toed boots, you tend to use them also. And, I've allwayspreffered seedy bars to fancy lounges. Fights tend to get really ugly, and anything and everything gets used. Knowing how to use your fists is essential, but far from everything you need. Just because the other guy only throws fists, doesn't mean that I have to restrict even my hand strikes to fists. And, when things get really close (as they tend to do), it is good to know how to use elbows, heel palms, knees (short kicks), and how to create space and do shin kicks or scoops. I totally agree about the best defense being a good offense. A defensive mindset and a defeatist mindset are one and the same, in practical terms. The defenses I was talking about were things like bear hugs, headlocks, tackles, grabs, chokes- the kind of things that tend to happen that punches aren't effective against. These can be dangerous, especially when your head is traped. Knowing how to move properly and extricate yourself quickly, while of course inflicting a lot of pain and dammage to him, is essential. I'm not dissing boxing (I hope that is obviouse). But as practiced today, it is primarily a sport. You need to add some skills, as well as modify others, in order to make it truly effective for practical use. Same can be said for a lot of martial arts- probably even most. I think the trend to mixed training is a good one all around.

Oh, man!!! I go away for a week, and 53% of you vote for limmited regulation! I've failed, th' arts have gone to hades, and th' wurld is doomed! That's what I get for being such an easy goin', non-confrontational type of individual! Time to go underground!

This happens, and to adults as well. There are a lot of reasons it can happen. Everyone gets caught off guard sometimes- this should decrease as awarenes and experience increase. Sometimes martial artists talk with non ma friends, and the friends decide to try to test the ma's skills. They don't realize that the defenses to their attacks can hurt and cause dammage. The ma does realize this, and hesitates in his response. Another reason might be that, as a begginer, your son doesn't yet have the confidence in his skills. And even experienced ma's get intimmidated sometimes. Sometimes, I think the 'just run away' attitude is stressed too much. I agree that the best fight is the one that doesn't happen. But we should all realize that this isn't allways possible or desireable. Sounds like your instructor is working to correct this situation now. I'll disagree (to a point) with some here, in that I think that if you have to block something, you probably should hit something as well. You don't allways have to hurt them, but there should be no doubt in their mind that you can and will. If this stops him continuing the attack, you've done both of you a favor. If he continues, at least you are on the offensive instead of defensive. I'd look at this incident as an opportunity to learn, to reasses your and your son's values and reasoning, and as motivation to continue training even harder. Good lessons for life, the combat lessons are secondary bennifits here. My ever (never?) so humble opinion! I'll also echo the cudos given you for your interest and involvement. Very sorry to hear about your loss. But you seem to have learned the lesson I was talking about better than most of us, including me. Full salute!

You're now wose off than the modern dancer as well. Combative or self defense firearms use is as much a martial art as anything you can name.

The great thing about KF (for me, any way) is the variety of opinions and the ability to state them respectfully, discuss them intelligently, and often agree to disagree with honor. You make some good points, and I won't say you are wrong in any of them. I've allways taken the position that we all choose and practice our arts for different reasons. What is right for one is not right for another. I'm also of the opinion that there is a lot in common with all arts, and often what we find in a particular system is more a matter of focus than exclusion. In fact, when we completely exclude any aspect of the martial arts, we tend to destroy a lot of what wewant to get out of the art. Taijiquan is a good example. Those that do it for only health, and deny it's combative roots, not only destroyed the essence of the art but got less than half the health bennifits from it. In fact, without the combative foundation a lot of bad habbits creeped into their form and actually had negative effects healthwise. For example, done wrong Taiji is extremely hard on some joints, particularly the knees. Improper meditation can be both neurologically and psychologically dammaging. Do away with push hands, you don't get the sensitivity, sharper reactions, ballance or interaction skills. Even for self improvement and health, you'd probably be better off taking a modern dance class than a Taiji class with no martial awareness. You talked about the bennifits to the mind in doing traditional arts. Philosophy, focus, concentration- these are undeniably great bennifits to be found in the martial arts. But I'd add things like critical thinking skills, quickness and sharpness of mind. These are things developed with the combative side of your art. Start combining your basics into techniques. Explore the types of defenses and offenses different moves are good for. Tear your forms down and realy study and understand them from an applications point of reference. Then use this knowlege in hard kumite. You will develope much more than the ability to fight. The reverse is also true for the combatives stylists. Without developing your mind and character, you get less of the combative advantages. For one thing, you can develope a very unhealthy attitude. Not just getting into fights (itself a very unhealthy pastime), but parahnoia, anger, and insecurity. These are mentally and emotionally destructive. My position is, focus on what aspects you want in the martial arts. But don't deny yourself the bennifits of what the other guy does.

aefibird, you should try it. It's a lot of fun, and helps get you thinking about applications. Most moves have more than one app, sometimes with a little modification they have unlimmited applications. It also gets you going on combinations and helps with flow. Lots of variations to the drill. The TKD school I used to be with would have students string one steps together to make techniques similar to AK. You can also do one where you throw an assault, your partner counters, you counter his counter, and ... . Take your moves and alter them to deal with as many situations you can think of. Take someone elses movesand modify them to fit your style. Really, you already do something like this with your katas when you break them down in layers to extract applications from them. This is sort of like the reverse process, taking base moves and building applications, and looking at the principles and concepts in what you are doing. This is the primary method of learning in Taiji, where every movement in the form has infinite applications. And, if you break the movements down, components also have infinate apps and can be recombined to do amazing things. But, if you look at the form as just a choreagraphed fight, you'd better hope your opponent learned the same dance. Even if you are learning a martial art for self improvement and exercise, this kind of thing exercises the mind and developes critical thinking skills, so you get a more holistic workout. Try it. I bet you like it.

From what you KK folks have said here, and from the clips you posted, I don't know whether that is a great understatement, or just simple eloquence! How about some of the other aspects, though? Do you train a lot of awareness, psychology, etc.? What about self defense techniques? Any system that works contact like you guys do intrigues me.

I recently got to see some really experienced grapplers comparing BJJ and Sambo, as well as a couple of other systems. All of them also were strikers in variouse systems. The first thing I learned is that you guys argue more with yourselves than with us strikers! But they had some good points. All stylists advised me to forget the flash submissions and focus on basics, so they didn't argue about everything. Any how, it seemed to me that the biggest differences weren't so much in their base moves as in their philosophies and some of the details of their applications. The sambo guys, and some of the others like Pancration and JKD, were more in to striking in their transitions, as well as just setting up a hold as a base to strike from. They also struck more in their counters. The BJJ guys seemed to be more patient in their transitions, going more for position and control. They struck, but not as much. Sambo attacked the legs more, and also tended to stay more toward the legs in situations like being in guard. They got into an argument about this, as the BJJ guy liked to get his weight more over the opponents torsoe, while the Sambo guy pushed back so that he was out of range of his opponents strikes. They both passed guard effectively (from my inexperienced point of view). Another good point one of them made (he does Sambo strictly as a combative art); I asked about rocks, glass, and debris on the ground. He said 'Of course it's there, learn to use it. Grind him into it. Would you rather be the grinder, or the one getting ground?' There goes another good misconception. But it pointed up another difference in philisophy/application. BJJ seemed more content to stay on the ground, while most of the others wanted to do max dammage and get back up as quickly as possible. Just some observations I thought I'd throw at you guys for comment. I won't be offended if you tell me I'm wrong about any of them. In fact, I'd appreciate your input.

I immagine a lot more people in a lot of styles are doing something like this these days, Red. Those that aren't are missing out. Especially in the Kenpo/Kempo styles, since they are so adaptable. I like that term, "kempos". Think I'll use it ( I plagerise more than just techs, and really have no shame about it ). Did you come up with that, or should I credit someone else with it?

Sounds like a good test. It would be interesting to see that.