kensei

So, the other day I was called down to a juniors club to chat with a new student. It was kind of strange as the junior is a Nidan and has a beautiful new club, the admin suggested I chat with the lad to see what was up. I got to the club and the guy was sitting int eh office with a Gi on and chatting with the admin and instructor and when I entered they introduced me and kind of sat back and let the new student bring up the topic for my visit. Apparentlyt he young lad (about 24) had been training on his own for some time, about three years he said and had learned the seven Kata that we require for Black belt level and he was asking to be graded based on his learning and see what level he was at. ....I had to ask for further details as in my 35 years of training I had never seen this or been asked to grade someone on the spot having never known them or trained them. He infact wanted to see if we would grant him up to Black belt level and would let him test for Shodan when our testing instructor came out to our clubs in the spring! We as a group had never met this guy and he admitted his entire training was based on reading Best Karate and watching Kata on line, he got his kumite training with a bunch of buddies he would spar with and that was his whole regement. Having said this, the kid was in great shape, he ran 10K races and probably spent more time in the gym in one week than most of my students have in a life time! The kid was solid and could do the splits, showed great flexibility and other than being a bit rough in spots he was actually very tallented. I explained to him that we grade based on several criteria and one of them was time in, which seemed unfair because he just said he did three to four years of hard self training, but I explained we have a rank set up and we could grade him at the next testing and evaluate his level when that happenes in three months, as we had just completed a cycle of testing. an interesting and strange experience to say the least. what would you all have done??

I would not worry about "Rank" exactly. For me its competency. can they teach? have they the "proper" knowledge and time in? I know of a Nidan that has been training about 27 years! I also know of a Rokudan that has only been in it 18 years! The Nidan actually knows much more about Karate and teaching than the sixthdan, but the Rokudan has a great athletic ability and a wonderful ability to kiss up to the seniors. It also depends on your organization! Now you kind of suggest you are leaving your group and not "branching out"...well then all rules are out the window now arnt they! You can grade yourself to 27th Dan and just go for it....but you will look a tad silly when people ask you questions you can not answer or show up and make you look like a rookie! The best thing to do is to stick to tradition. Find a great and supporting Dojo, put your time in and when you are READY you will know. Your instructor will have faith in you and that is ten to fourty times more important than rank! You will always be a tad slower or less able than some students physically are, your best defense in this case is to be smarter and to put your time in so you are legit. and you have to love karate for the right reasons to open a club. If its for the money...well you will not be making much really. if its for power...well that tends to be very fleating....if its because you really love Karate...it will show and you will be a success if you have 100 students or 1.

jaypo, I hope for your clubs sake that this lady chooses to take up Taebo or what ever is the latest exercise craze and just drops your club from her training. I would have had words with her a long time ago! We used to have "meaningful conversations" with people when this kind of thing happened, if that did not work we would spar with them and show them that they had to straighten up, and if that did not work my instructor would sit them down, give them back their fees for the month and show them the door. Never be afraid to lose a member when it benefits those that say!

In my shotokan syllabus I like Kanku Dai, Nijushiho and Meikyo...however I have been trying to learn a few Goju Kata and by far Seyunchin (sp?) is my favorite so far. Kata is just something I take a lot of interest in. Some I dislike and but they are still important.

Regardless of her skills in Karate she never should have been allowed to test...period. I recall one time we were out at camp and one of MY students tested for Orange with his mom, Grandmother and sister. He was by far better technically than her big sister and he passed. That night my instructor came to my hut (we were on a island) and told me that one of the other instructors witnessed him disrespecting his grandmother and mother, he failed the test based on attitude alone! My instructor is no joke and he passed that on to me. I wont take sass from juniors or students, joking around is good but you have a limit and that lady jumped all over that line in my mind. she would be invited to find another dojo if she were in my class!

So, what i have learned about a local club is that it is Meibukan and they have several Kata that has never been taught by Miyagi. My questions is what order did Miyagi teach the Kata, does anyone know?

I think I need to clarify. In shotokan you learn the first seven Kata in order ( Heian 1-5, Tekki 1 and Bassai Dai). and at Shodan we can select from any of the other Kata, it is highly suggested we learn the first 15 first however. Now, having gone to countless Goju group web sites I note that some clubs/orgs suggest that you do specific Katas for each rank, but others dont mention this at all. Is their a standard curriculum for clubs based on rank. I am really mostly interested in the traditional 12 kata based systems and not the newere ones that tend to add Kata like Meibukan and other systems....it tends to confuse me a bit on a subject i am just slightly knowledgable about.

So, I have been racking the internet hours trying to answer a question that bugs and bothers me...and it really should not.....Im not even a Goju guy! In Shotokan the majority of organizations have a specific curriculum set up that all look the same...but in Goju it seems liek the very wildest of wests! What are the order you learn your Kata in, and at what point is it based on yoru favorite Kata? Some groups have a set curriulum that goes right up to all 12 Kata and some seem to add Kata, others teach only the main kata (10 and eliminate the Geikisai Katas). I always find it interesting to look at different styles, but this has me confused!

You will never find a open list of McDojos, more like a list of schools people complain about openly. However two things you need to remember...one, just because your Dojo is a member of a Legit organization...does not mean you are not running a McDojo...and second,...a McDojo is mostly in the eye of the beholder. here are my top ten red flags showing you may be in a McDojo. 1. Your school only will train you if you sign a lengthy contract.The only thing you should sign in a club is a waiver in case you get hurt...its a martial art for gosh shake and getting hurt is a reality, but ensuring someone elses income should be based on their skill as an instructor, not on the contract you have with them 2. The head instructor refuses to spar with anyone because his skills are "too deadly". Yah...and I have a bridge in London I have for sale...cheap. If you never see them do more than pace and blurt out random instructions leave. 3. Belt advancement tests require payment...and you have never seen anyone fail. Okay, so lots of great instructors wont let their students test unless they know they are ready, and those that just take money and let them test with out being sure they are ready...well they are jerks. but everyone has an off day, and if they still pass after missing moves in teh Kata or some other mix up...well its a sign. 4. They use titles like Soke, Shihan, Master, Grand master, Renshi.... perhaps one of my biggest pet peaves is the use of Shogu by instructors in the west. The Shogu is an honorary thing, they should never refer to themselves like "Hi, my name is John smith- Grand master Renshi soke of my dojo".... 5. There are a suspicious number black belts who have not entered or just begun puberty. personally I think kids should have a much longer road to Shodan and after that they should be held back as much as possible. They are not generally mature enough and with the body changes they go through, its very difficult to judge what they will be like in six months. I hate walking into a situation and some kid who is seventeen and been training six years suddently announces he is a fourth dan in such and such...its hard to keep hot coffee from coming out of my nose if I am drinking at the time. 6. The head instructor has an inordinate number of degrees in their black belt. i.e. 27th degree (This is often achieved by claiming to have different degrees in several arts.)I find that the longer I am in the martial arts the more I want to know how long someone has been training, with whom and then train with them to see what their skills are as instructors...personally I dont give a flying whoop what rank they have. I know Nidans that are better instructors than some Hachidans I have met and could mop the floor with them. And I also know of one Nandan that has never really trained outside of his small sphere in the states who cant teach, has horrible form and basically is a giant waste of time... 7. An excessive number of belts and mid-level belts (stripes). nothign says I need your money and will do anything to rip you off like a striped belt system! 8. The head instructor makes suspicious claims about titles/awards he has won and cannot supply proof or evidence. or they give proof and th esignature of Mabuni looks an awful lot like the one that he just did to sign your "Participation" certificate he handed you for taking his "Special class" which by the way...is 8b! 9. The class is being instructed by someone of questionable age; for instance, a 15 year old teaching adults. If I was...well my age...and I walked into a club, I would have a VERY hard time being taught by a 15 year old! Just my personal biase, but until you are done growing you should not be holding a Dan rank and you sure should not be in charge of teaching people with three to four times your life experineces. 10. Your school offers a "fast track" to your black belt. This usually involves heavy fees and prolonged contracts. Or they offer to give you a "Sensei" level if you agree to teach after a month of training. MAJOR BELLS AND FLAGS ON THIS ONE.

Hmm lets see. Shotokan for 35 years of my 40 years on this earth, Judo for 4 years of my 40 and other martial arts approx. 10 years of my 40. So Shotokan 87%, Judo 10%, Other 25%....WOW...Thats a lot.

This is a tough one. My thoughts are..... Kick boxing is a sport for young guys and you pretty much have a three to four year shelf life before you can not compete at the level you are at, statistically you get hurt more and you end up on the shelf alot. When you get older you will be damaged a lot from kick boxing and you could get some pretty bad brain injuries. While you are young however Kick boxing is a bit more fun, you get into great shape and if you are competitive you can not find a better outlet for that in striking. Its a great way to train for other sports like MMA and your cardio should be fantastic from doing the sport. Karate is not as much fun as Kick boxing for young people, its regemented and it has some strange rules that dont make much sense till you are older. its still fairly hard no the joints and you probably will be hurt a bit while you are training. The impact on the body is less than Kick boxing but it is still their. You often have to off set the lack of real conditioning in some classes by jogging or doing weights, which takes up more time. On the upside you can do Karate till you are old man and you can go at your own pace, the amount of learning is huge and you never end learning, technically you take a long time to become proficient but you do end up with a higher level of technical ability will be much better than kick boxing, the strategy also will help pay off when you learn more about how to do things and why. My suggestion is to figure out what you really want out of training and go from their. Finding your goals and what your end game is will actually help you alot. You seem like you have alot on your plate as it is. I tend to think one striking and one grappling art is ENOUGH anything past that is going to serve to confuse and hurt your training. My preference would be BJJ and Karate because you can do both for a long time, kick boxing only if you are young and look forwards to competition.

hey Devil Dog, I actually, and respectfully, do not agree with Archimoto. I personally would talk to your instructor about this issue. The issues like this tend to break organizations up. Let your instructor know that their is "talk" and questions that are being asked and ask him if he really thinks that this is the right move, or ask him why he is doing this right now and maybe not respecting the other instructors wishes and give him some time. You may be supprised that if you approach this the right and most respectful way that you might get an answer that makes complete sense or you may twig on something with your instructor and he could put off the grading. personally if my instructor gave us a rank advancement I would accept the advancement as he knows best, but being part of a huge organization...my instructor actualy can not do this. But when we were independent he was really picking about rank and would almost kill us just to get one level advancements and even then he failed about 1/4 of the students because he did not want to be seen as playing favorite. I would ask, be respectful and let him know others are qustioning the move at this time. Let him know what ever he says goes, but an answer would help smooth the way.

Kusanku Takahara Peichin Satanuka "Tode" Sakugawa Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura Itosu Anko/Azato Anko Gichin Funakoshi Nakayama M Yaguchi Y Dingman P Myself. I have had the pleasure of training with other instructors as well and training under many masters (Koyama, Okizaki, Tanaka, Ueki, Takashina, ext) but this is the closest to a lineage tree I can get.

what a truely sad and frustrating situation. I remember when I started in Karate four decades ago reading about Demura sensei and watching the Karate kid, knowing he was Miyagi sensei in real life. My heart and thoughts go out to him and his students, I truely hope that this works out for him and his student to the better. it is always sad to see a famous spot ripped down, but the Dojo truely is the students and instructor, not four walls and a roof. but a home is four walls and a roof and I can see the sadness in this situation.

I once read this posting on a web site that attempted to explain the whole color thing to membership, it read something like; White is for the purity of snow and the way that a beginners mind is, yellow is the color of the sun and understanding, green is...... You get the point. The only thing running through my mind...boy someone has alot of spare time on their hands! Truth is, like everyone here has suggested, we took the Kyu/Dan ranking system from Judo for Karate and then the Korean arts adapted it when they changed Karate to be TKD and other Korean arts took the system of ranking as well. The colors are simply picked to show advancement and I have seen a PLETHERA of different colors used. Gold and yellow, blue, Green, Purple, red, orange, white, black, brown, gray, pink, Camo! They only mean what you want them to mean. Personally I am all for a white brown black color system and be done with it.

Not to throw this conversation a curve ball, but even with in Karate styles their are massive differences. Take a style like Goju and put it next to Kyokushin or shotokan and you will see not so subtle differences too.

I encourage people to get a firm grasp of the fundamentals first, so I normally say Purple belts and up can start grappling (I teach Karate). the reason is that that while the arts are very much different, the funamental mind process is very much different. Also, it greatly depends on the instructors involved. I have a Judo black belt and have been doing Karate my whole life pretty much so I have a healthy respect for grappling and even keep meaning to take up BJJ...and can not find time. But some instructors loath the idea of grappling period. This normally is not an issue as they just ignore it and are not involved, where I find their is an issue is some BJJ instructors put down striking arts, especially traditional ones and this can lead to issues iht the students themselves. I had one BJJ instructor telling me how Karate was horrible (he used words that I can not on this forum) and how BJJ beats Karate 100% of the time. Which was great till I suited up and put gloves on. I bloodied his nose before he could get close to me and then I showed him, with a student, why Karate is better in some cases, Two on one...BJJ loses 100% of the time. Add striking and the mix of grappling or counter grappling and its so much better. Moral of the story is that in a real fight you need to have choices and know what they are and how to make them. My suggestion is to take up a striking art and focus on it till you are an intermediate student like around purple belt and then go and start grappling. Let both instructors know what you are doing and keep working on both to be safer on the streets.

Mas oyama was a Korean that moved to Japan, and as far as I can tell he never went to Okinawa prior to founding Kyokushin. Oyama started his training with the university clubs, and most were rather well known. He trained up to Shodan and then went to train with Gigo Funakoshi as well. Some say he did not have alot of contact with the Funakoshi's however and a cute story that Taiji Kase tells about Oyama bragging that he was a Kodokan Black belt ...when he knew he was not...and then calling him on it was rather telling. Some also say he was not a black belt at all but a Ikkyu. Logically to me I would think he reached about Nidan based on his time in and training, In shotokan. He then stopped training in Shotokan and began training in Goju karate with a Korean that had trained with Chojun Miyagi. He may or may not have received a Shodan in this art as well. He left for 3 years and trained in the mountains to build his body and to melt his Shotokan and Goju systems into a personal form he called Kyokushin. I respect the heck out of Kyokushin people, not my style but its a good style and Oyama knew his stuff....so it does not matter to me if he got Yondan in all three arts he says he did, he brought a cool sport style of Karate to the table and those who want to train full contact are lucky he did.

Bit late to the game here, but I thought that this was just a cool discussion.... Hey I have been caught with this and caught my instructor. we are human. we have lots to remember and while I try my best to prep for a classes I am not a memory GOD I dont like student correcting me in the class, but if i screw up then a private chat or even on the floor saying "OOOPS YOU BLOOPED" and I actually appreciate it...it means they are paying attention. NOT MY BUSINESS> if the instructor thinks they should test then he tells them. I dont earn any money with testing so I dont suggest people just test, I actually am more likely to not let people test, but again if my instructor says they should...not my place to say no..or question him. Again, some people need motivation, some people dont have the time to train at the dojo, and its not about time in. If someone does a tone of home work they might be ready but not have been at the club...not my place to guess. Again, Grading is not my choice. My instructor pretty much listens to me and it may be that you need to tell him the time has not lapsed, but if the student is ready he may pull "rank" and push the testing regardless. I would comment to him in private. I have NEVER seen my instructor do this, if anything I have seen him ask for MORE regarding the testing of some...he likes to push people as much as he can and really test them but you may want to ask. NEVER have I ever seen this in our clubs. I have seen my instructor step away from the testing table when his kids tested and he has had a few friends or family members test and he has left the grade up to our technical committee. If you feel uncomfortable about any of this you have a right to comment to him or gently ask questions.

Very well said! Martial arts are not Sports! I see LOTS of sport Karate and Jiu Jitsu guys that are black belts that could not run a class well and to be frank...not nice people as well. The testing for rank should also be based on minimum technical levels along with an understanding that this is a personal journey. the most inspirational people I have trained with are a little girl that has multiple FAS symptoms and comes out and trains every week with a smile on her face and more enthusiasm than most adults have. The other one was a guy with one arm that I trained with in Judo, the dude was CRAZY good and only had one arm! Because he had one arm one instructor would not teach him or train with him. When he graded for Shodan (just after me) He was failed by the instructors the first time because the instructor that was biased would not pass him. The next tournament that we went to he was in a division with four guys, he beat all four with Ippon....all friggin four! Then he was given permission to grade again and he asked that his partner be a Black belt not one of the others grading for shodan, the instructor stood up (youngish tournament star) and the funniest thing was he tossed this Yondan around with one arm like the guy was a throwing dummy. Sweeps with one arm and he even did a perfect series of pins on the guy. As it turned out the one armed guy almost failed again, the Yondan was the vote against and the other four were for, one on the fence. You needed 3/4 of the votes to pass, the guy on the fence was the Yondans senior (all this is what I was told second hand) and the guy went against his junior and voted for the Shodan to go to the one armed fighter. The next testing....the Yondan was absent...and the next. Point being it does not matter what is thrown in front of you on your personal journey through martial arts, its your hurdle and if you handle them then you should grade and pass. If you are a super athletic guy that works just hard enough to maintain, I may not pass you over the older guy that has a family and busts his back side every class and has issues with flexibility and fitness. its about the personal journey!

it depends entirely on how you interpret history. Karate came from Okinawa, but it has roots in Kung fu, which comes from China, but SOME forms of Kung fu/Wushu have roots in Indian Yoga, others in other martial arts from other nations. I think that the "Has roots" means mixed with local stuff or someone showed a guy a move and he added it to his already existing art. Tae Kwon Do comes from Karate, but they took aspects of the kicking from local existing arts, that had its roots in China. Judo was created in Japan from Jui Jitsu, that had been influenced by Mongolian Wreslting through China. The truth is "had influenced" and "has roots in" means that we THINK that these arts somehow stimulated changes or introduced ideas into existing styles. Does that mean that somehow Karate comes from India....no, not at all. it means that existing arts adopted aspects of other arts and created new arts. The true history of martial arts can only truely be ran back to their origins as a whole style, not before that.

I try not to "look" directly at anything. it slows down the reaction timeing. I kind of stair at a triangular area between the forehead and shoulder area, but I dont focus on any one area of the person I am sparring with and let my gaze move naturally around. When I do focus on them I stair straight into the eyes and focus on looking them right in the eyes. then I let my gaze move around again.

Kata is a flexible and Organic thing, you can do it slow, which is great for form, memory and technical understanding. You can do it medium speed which is a great work out and starts to create a bit of realism and timing training as well as testing your basics to make sure they hold up (stance ext) and then go strong speed for application and a great work out while making it seem more "real". We also do "Combat Speed" which is more real world application...dont go all froggy on that it just means puttingit together as if you were fighting. The other thing about Kata is you can take it appart and work drills on specific things, you can do it back wards to learn it....litterally...backwards and forwards and you can add things like reverse punches every move or kicking. The point is that you should know your testing Kata and those that came before well enough to push the Kata through in multiple angels ext. Kata is a great training tool to hone your Kihon waza as well as your movement skills. Dont limit what you do with it, expand and create! Have fun with it.

Most schools that do a once a year testing do two to four rankings at one time. So you show up a white belt and a year later you are a Green belt...after one test. Its not unusual if the instructor is not licenced to test people at all and has to bring out an instructor yearly to do so. However, I have to say that this totally misses the point of ranking for sure. Kyu testing is simply an understanding of what you understand of the BASICS. after all Shodan is not an Elite level, or should not be seen as such. Its the pure basic understanding of BASIC Karate. Thus a Shodan (Being "First step") understands the basics...if you dont understand the basics in three years...get a new instructor! The thing with yearly testing is that you either A) Test for multiple levels or B) drop to a White, brown, Black belt system like the old days!

I remember years ago a Orange belt got hit by a green belt during testing. The Green belt was asked to spar with the lady Orange during one step and she got "bopped" a bit on the chin. It shocked her and she pretty much shut down. The testing was over anyways but she did not line up with the rest of us, she ran to the bathroom to cry....she was in her 20's and not a little kid but it shook her up. Sensei's wife ran into the bathroom to look after her and "coddle" her. Sensei got very upset. He said to those of us hanging around "this is Karate, we are here to create warriors that can take care of themselves when under pressure....be it a fight or at work being bullied"! He stormed off and told his wife to go to the office area and make a phone call. Most of us seniors that stuck around heard him tell the girl that she needed to get used to pressure situations and getting hit. He was sorry that it scared her but it was good for her. That Orange belt girl became very good at Kumite after that and she learned and grew from it. I actually tagged her once in Kumite when she was a brown belt and she just kept going. We have to get used to these things and not shrink from them.