crash

i usually followed a set class pattern. time is also an issue with how classes are ran as much as style itself. i ran 2 hour classes, or 2 one hour classes actually. usually on wednesdays the second hour was sparring. the other four days was a 2 hour standard class. that was for advanced, green belt and above. and a one hour class for beginners. we did a lot similar to what you describe with dumbells.......i know a lot of places it is common to have 1 hour classes only and given the warm-ups and stretching leaves little time for anything extra...

its more like a boxing gyms stations, heavy bag, speed bad, push-ups, sit-ups, mt climbers, etc.... follows a 9-rounds type workout..... a mix of strength and cardio in a HIIT type format, two minutes each station, etc... not really anything new to the M.A's. back in the 80's it was common in sport karate training, heck, tai-bo was even a martial arts workout in its basic form, before it was watered down, given a name and fed to the public as a stand alone workout....lol.....

as stated earlier. just learning to fight (with fists) is already available at any boxing gym in any city USA. you learn and condition and when ready step into the ring to spar, just shy of full contact, sure headgear may be warn, and gloves, but the safety equipment, conditioning / learning along with a waiver is paramount for insurance purposes, and safety reasons in general. as far as incorporating martial arts into the mix, thats been around since the 80's at least, with kickboxing. most trained in a boxing gym. the only addition to boxing was the mandatory 8 kick per round rule.... you cant just tell people to get in a ring and beat each other to the body, (or anywhere else) without some sort of training and conditioning to work up to that point, regardless of the type of fighting....that is where insurance and medical bills would end the business/gym pretty quickly...what youve described so far sounds more like an underground fight club more than an actual training type club of any sort. not meaning to sound harsh or negative, its just the way it comes across from the description so far.

i think what you are proposing is pretty much already covered in every boxing gym across the country. like sensei8 stated above, to go full on contact your insurance would be astronomical, not to mention student retention would probably be almost impossible, no one wants to (or could) go all out on a daily/weekly basis....as far as integrating it into other styles, its already there... every style covers body work / body punches from the beginning. from how to make a fist to "middle punches"...heavy bag work simulates a body and develops strength without the risk of undo injury. what you envision is bare knuckle boxing without head strikes, i really dont see a purpose for this. i could be wrong but for myself there are just more alternatives and styles that would cover more and be more practical.

Thank you sensei8, i too, always found a way to train. but i also see those times of training alone, without a style or dojo, as lapses... and then there were the actual lapses of not training at all. though those of no training at all were few and far between... ive almost always had at least a gym membership of some type, even if it was just a community gym with the basics...and even there i would incorporate martial arts to the training routine....life can and will get in the way, but that in itself is a lesson, and shows how strong our roots are. part of the training is how we overcome obstacles and how we maintain composure. it forms who we become as adults...... i moved and traveled around a lot after adulthood with career. but found a way to still run and teach at a couple dojos, and even now have made a way to still train.... life is an adventure. but a way can be found.... i see real life not as getting in the way but as being part of the overall lesson. not insensitive at all. we all have to make those choices of where life leads us. but we can also make the choices of how we react and who we become along the path we choose. and if wanted strongly enough we can find a way. it becomes a lifestyle. no matter where we train..... and our knowledge can always be passed on to the next generations or whomever may want to learn........ Thank you for your reply.

most here seem to have a few years in the game. i myself began this journey, life, back in 1980. trained 5 or 6 days a week 2 hours per day on three of those days of the week. did so for the first 6 years before joining the military. while some buddies and i would train in the PT sawdust pits, trading ideas and techniques, that was the first of my lapses in actual training at a dojo or a particular style... i did resume training after leaving the service for a few years in a different style. then came the second drifting away, after getting married and starting a career that required travel. once we got settled in halfway across the country i found and started training again. but this was only for a year before another move, again across country, took place. this was followed by a lapse of 5 years or so. afterwards i did start teaching for a few years for a local dojo, settled in and dove deeper into the philosophical side of life. looking back its cool to see the changes we go through and how we have matured or the directions taken. these humps, obstacles and lapses come and go, but the life always calls one back..... that last dojo went out due to the owners age/health and the timing of the pandemic.... but even before then i had built my own training area in the back yard, a full outdoor workout area with gym machines, free weights and multiple benches. and a full indoor dojo. just for myself and a few students i will occasionally take on......so, from an activity/sport in 1980 to a lifestyle today, interesting journey, is this just another lapse, so to speak, or is this finding the meaning of sorts. a coming to a new chapter or realization....... what are some of your stories? any lapses or times of drifting away?.....lessons in themselves of who you are?

no serious injuries in training. took a few good shots while sparring, breath knocked out and a bruise or two here and there a few times. tournaments were a little different, almost knocked out once, would've/could've been considered a TKO, had it not been just before the timer to end the match. that guy had to have three legs though... i never saw it coming and still, 45 years later, dont know where or what kind of kick that was...all i know was my brain was saying stay up and move and my legs were like "nope were done"....lol...and quite a few other dents and dings along the way on the tournament side.

Wow, that brings back memories.... not only as you stated with nerves, excitement and being overwhelmed. but of the later tournaments and the experiences gained and memories made of traveling the southeast circuit for the following coupleyears... that first tournament was the battle of atlanta in 1981, i was a blue belt and did manage to win a couple of point fights. so not too bad considering.....lol.......then a few local smaller tournaments , and then traveling with the group all over....those were fun, not just the events but the comradery and time spent on the beaches or in the cities afterwards or before the tournament itself....fun times indeed...... i made sure to make my last tournament before leaving for the military to be our studios / instructors yearly tournament, the Vitali Goldstar....that was the mid 80's and since returning from the military in the 90's i have probably only participated in a couple tournaments with another dojo/style since then... but those days with my first style will always be what i remember most fondly....

lol. yeah, probably a little..... what got me thinking of this topic as a whole, is recently on our little main street another personal training gym has opened up. not a mile from one that opened in 2019. both are along the lines of cross fit or other HIIT type gyms. so that, along with a workout anytime or planet fitness in every shopping center in the county. and they all stay pretty much packed out, we are in a fitness revolution of sorts, people are far more fitness conscience now than even 15 or so years ago, and i know that martial arts are a specific interest. but a lot of people do expect a level of fitness to be gotten from their participation. and with the multitudes of people going for the gyms there has to be a way to attract some of those to our sector... interesting comments/views so far. i know many of you come from a traditional background where as my core training was more sport oriented. so there is a difference as well as the differences in how each dojo or style is ran, a lot of variables at play. just wondering others thoughts or what they may or may not do that is different from the standard martial arts type everyday type runnings.... i attended an aikido dojo back in the early 2000's for a year or so and they always had a very large attendance / members. they didnt teach children below 16 and the classes were 2 hours each day. only two belts, white and black, (they had testing of course, just no colored belts) though you were allowed to wear the hakama after you were past the halfway point..... cool place, and they "broke" the rules of how most dojos run but still maintained a large membership....

and that is the problem with adult retention. one of the big puzzles we try to figure out is how to retain adults long term. if you ask most people why they want to learn "karate" the answer will be self defense and to get in shape, by teaching "karate" only, you are only giving them half of what they are looking for, and i guarantee they will leave for a gym within 2 or so years. compare your memberships with ANY gym in the area. you are lucky to have half the numbers of the worst gym. gyms are everywhere and on average are 50 bucks a month, la fitness (and many others, depending on location) you can get for 50-60 a month, bring a friend every visit, have a pool, gym, and classes of every kind, even a box it out class at most. this is the competition we face. we have to change what we offer to stay afloat. the thread "is martial arts dying?" is a good example, and the answer, honestly is "Yes".... karate has become a kindergarden or babysitting service in most peoples eyes. an afterschool activity for the kids. in that thread, and others, posters mention the poor teaching and lack of actual skills. that is the dying last breath of the martial arts. we are in the death throes and must admit there is a problem in order to fix it..... instead of changing to fit the times the martial arts instead became belt factories and soft. thinking to get or keep people they had to offer easy ways to the top..... and this is now the result. not trying to be harsh, just pointing out that for 100 bucks a month people would choose a crossfit or P.T gym over what we do. they dont want easy, they want results........ and we can give those results, we just have to see and make the changes necessary.... its not hard to incorporate a routine into the training and still stay martial arts based and focused.

i agree that class time, or the majority of time spent at the dojo is martial arts training, that is what its all about, after all. but i have found that adults do like the cardio and strength portions also. gives them some "gym time", so to speak. ive been in dojos that for the entire month before testing they will only focus on forms for the entire month. well, two steps, forms, testing agenda, etc.... so for those not testing its rather boring or not "fullfilling" to a degree. (though i dont think most are like that or to that degree, but if testing every three months like some do, that eats a lot of time away from class in the long haul).. this is OK for beginners classes but for advanced classes i would rather have them work on forms/kata in their own time, (of course there is help if needed) and have a HIIT type routine of some type twice a month. along with a sparring class once per week.. , Thanks for the reply.

Do you or your dojo, class etc... incorporate or use heavy bags,(not B.O.B or standing type but hanging heavy bags for timed drills), speed bags, dumb bells, or other non-martial arts type equipment in training. does your class veer away from just the M.A type subject and do a class of pure cardio or or perhaps "station" type training? if so, what type and how often, once a week? once a month? just occasionally?...... just wondering others thoughts.

if you have a commercial spot and dont wish to train under 16 or so, with the right space and set up, you could make up the difference by offering yoga, spin, aerobics or other classes. find someone who can teach those, or offer a "9 rounds" type program for those wanting a quick workout only.

cool, the only reason i mentioned this was you said this was a fairly recent occurrence. so just better to be on the safe side and rule out any health issues.

caffeine can raise blood sugar levels, as can fried chicken, which can make one sluggish or cause nausea or a "sick" feeling after eating,. while chicken itself is a protein the breading is usually flour based which is all carbs. and depending on what spices are used... you may want to have an a1c test next visit to the docs just to rule out anything medical..... probably nothing but helps to know for sure.

enforcement is hard to a degree, you are right in that you have to be very blatant, and over the top in how its done to bring about any type of interest of your business. too many loopholes or ways other types of activity play into it. there was a defense some time ago of how companies "sponsor" you tube channels with free products or gifts for good reviews and publicity. (which then the youtubers end up selling after the review, which is always good by the way. gotta keep on the sponsors good side ...lol). so much now plays into it that for the most part its no longer enforced unless the complaints are overwhelming enough.

Thanks everyone

dont worry or over think it. just go..... meet people, make friends. the rest will come naturally. try for at least three times per week. and practice what you can at home. even if its just slow forms practice to get the movement, kick, punch etc perfect... places teach differently so cant comment much on the training. some are better than others for beginners and have a better schedule and layout of classes, adult beginner classes, some even have an intermediate class once a week and then advanced classes. while some places just have an adult class with everyone lumped in together. while these can be confusing for some at first they can still be good dojos to learn from. you just have to go... you will learn it and get better as time progresses. dont be so hard on yourself or lose interest before you really give yourself a chance.

through out my time in the martial arts arts ive been to some dojos that did meditate and then those that did not. my core dojo, while self defense based, was also heavy on the sport side, it was the early 80's, a high time for the tournament scene. we did meditate there, to clear the mind and control the "jitters" so to speak. visualization was also heavy, especially to help forms competitions. it works tremendously. also helps for later learning and creating your own forms/kata......

you will get there. dedication is all it takes and it soon becomes a lifestyle. of course life changes and interests come and go but this is one that can and will follow you throughout, even when those times of other endeavors come along this is something you can always fall back into. ive been in this since 1980, moved from coast to coast. tried different styles and dojos along the way. built memories ill never forget and friendships and acquaintances that will always bring a smile to me. as the years pass you will learn more that it is as much about growth and life in general as it is about sport, or self defense. a continuing journey of realization and learning..... good luck on your journey. and may you too one day be passing on what you have learned along your path.

Hi guys, been a while....... i think for most getting their blackbelt is a sign of completion in this type of activity. it dousnt become a lifestyle so much for most, especially if the dojo is focused on mainly self defense or competition. for fitness purposes a gym is in most ways better and less expensive. it also depends on the style and the atmosphere of the dojo in question. is it run as a business (do students feel only like a number on the floor?) or does it have that "family" feel to it?. retention of students can be hard after B.B, people go on to other things or ways of staying in shape. teaching or bringing up 2nd or 3rd or higher levels is OK but in all honesty its just a way for the dojo to make money on testing. once someone reaches blackbelt they should know how to create their own forms, have the basics perfected and be able to perform more advanced techniques or movements on their own with a little thought...(if they cant then perhaps they were given the BB too soon. sometimes a diagrammed "plan" or curriculum isnt the best way to go... or at least it needs to be fluid) after blackbelt one thing that may retain students is pricing, be competitive with the local gyms, even it if means 25 dollars a month (if the biggest competition is workout anytime, planet fitness or such), for those who've earned their B.B... but building a comradery and friendships is key to retention, go out to dinner, (pizza huts used to be perfect for this...lol), the movies, have a bar b q once a month in the warm months, whatever it takes to build a "family" unit of friendships......

this right here, exactly what i was referring to about belt integrity...or lack there of...lol... so many places want to bring out their best students as show for visitors. but the truth is, if you want to know how good an instructor really is, dont look at their best, instead, look at their worst black belts / students. notice if all their students look and act as though they deserve their rank, or was it just given to them for participation...... the student is a reflection in a lot of ways of the instructor. their attitude, control, talent, dedication, etc can all be influenced by just how much time is given, respect shown, and honest interest taken in them. and it will be efective in helping that person grow..... of course im sure im preaching o the choire here with you , but maybe someone will gain something from this rambling.....lol.... great post sensei 8, you have a great day and continue on strongly Sir...

the only thing that seems "harsh" or pointless in some organizations testing programs is the fact that they are made to be more of an ego boost for the participants to feel good about themselves...lol... to the point of even possibly causing injury. (not speaking of your org. personally.) if someone is training daily, or at least 4 ties per week they are going to know their stuff and improve regardless of whether they test or not. someones level of knowledge, form, etc... is completely what they put into it.... a harsh test or painful test dousnt make them better....and is actually pointless, they either know their stuff or they dont, which is something the instructor should know long before they test. the test is strictly for show....it really means nothing. now the last sentence you wrote i do slightly disagree with. the integrity of rank...rank has no integrity. you even stated if they show improvement they pass...but are they as good as everyone else?...does everyone have to show an equil or the same ability to pass for the same rank?... when doing calisthenics, or warm up, does everyone have to be able to do the splits? or be able to kick as high or as powerful as the next guy? if not then rank has no integrity. it is not equil and therefore shows no true level of ability.....now integrity of the person is a different issue....lol...ive trained at dojo's who were strictly traditional or under an org. and ive trained at more laid back dojo's with no governing body but superb instruction, ive even trained at a couple dojo's with only two belts, white and black...still had tests, and once you reached what would be brown belt you were allowed to wear the hakama that was part of that style as a reward. but only stripes for everything inbetween. it worked out actually as good as a colored belt system if not better in a lot of ways....testing is for the ego of the students and a reward to keep them interested. that is also why some schools with blue belt programs and the likes has a high drop out rate once that level is reached, and why so many people quit after reaching their goal of blackbelt even..it is a double edged sword in a lot of ways, it sets a goal but dousnt add anything to retention for later.....rank is what you make it, nothing more, nothing less. there is nothing special, mystical, or anything else to it... a person can be a 10th dan and still be the worst person or have the worst attitude and manners in the room....lol... what we do is nothing but repetition, the moves can be learned by anyone willing to put in the time and effort, testing is just a formality.

does anyone pass the upper kyu tests???....lol....45 minutes of calisthenics and then a 5 mile run is another 35 minutes..(at a seven minute mile, which is a good steady pace for 5 miles) not many people could complete that unless they spend 5 days a week in class or combined with gym activity. along with the rest you state is really extreme and uncalled for IMO. not doubting you, i just dont see the need for such harsh or extreme measures. im not training warriors or pro fighters. i started out in a sport based style, fought the southern circuit for a few years. trained hard and constant. but never in a way that would cause unnecessary injury or risk that can be avoided....

the answer to that would be that most other styles do incorporate "kata" in some form, boxing has "shadow boxing" pad work with hand targets, foot work drills, etc.... wrestling has "duck walks/samurai walks" sit out drills, etc....the problem isnt kata but in how it is taught or its intensity, this is one of the things i was referring to with how most dojo' overlook the more intense training that other styles focus on. if you can train in a way that equils that of other styles then as stated above, the proof is on the floor and should be shown.